Options
THIS ONE IS FOR DOG97!
wondercoin
Posts: 16,688 ✭✭✭✭✭
Dog97: You asked for my opinion a couple times today. I was a bit sidetracked earlier. But, here are my thoughts on your questions:
Have you dealers priced coins out of range of the normal collectors and are turning to rental/lease property to make up revenue? CAN'T SPEAK FOR OTHER "DEALERS", BUT I HAVE NEVER RENTED/LEASED A COIN I CAN RECALL AND NEVER INTENDED TO IN THE FUTURE. I THINK THE CONCEPT IS LUDICROUS, AS ARE ALL OTHER FORMS OF NONOWNERSHIP OF COINS CURRENTLY IN REGISTRY SETS. ANY COLLECTOR THAT STOOPS TO HAVING TO LIST SOMETHING IN A REGISTRY SET HE DOES NOT REALLY OWN DESERVES TO BE BANNED FROM THE REGISTRY (OR SUSPENDED FOR A LONG TIME)!!! THIS WAS THE MESSAGE MYSELF AND HD INTENDED TO CONVEY TO THE BOARDS BEFORE IT ALL GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE "POOR PRESENTATION".
Have the buyers of these high priced former pop 1 & 2 coins realized they have made a mistake spending thousands for a coin they can only sell for hundreds now and need to get cash back, thus renting/leasing? AGAIN, THE ISSUE HAS NEVER COME UP. IF SOME OWNER OF A PCGS OF NGC COIN CAME TO ME TO DISCUSS LEASING IT, I WOULD TELL HIM TO TAKE PILLS AND CALL ME IN THE MORNING
Has the Registry craze peaked and the only coins being sold are the $100-$200 coins for the Modern Type? I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN NO SIGN OF THIS WHATSOEVER.
Are collectors finding it's not as hard as they have been led to believe to make high grade coins and they are making their own now? (lots of new 68s & 69 now and the quality supposedly went downhill with the State 25¢ rush on) I AM PERSONALLY HAVING THE HARDEST TIME I HAVE HAD RECENTLY MAKING TOP GRADE COINS. I BELIEVE I AM NOW 0/1500 ON MY LAST STATE QUARTER PROOF COINS THIS YEAR FOR EXAMPLE TRYING FOR PROOF 70 GRADE. I HAVE ONLY GRADED -3- MS68 STATE QUARTERS IN MY LIFE TO THIS DAY WITH PCGS NOTWITHSTANDING MY EXTREMELY HIGH SUBMISSION LEVELS!!
Why is RegistryCoin asking about combining sets? Are you dealers trying to cook up some new money making scheme? YOU'LL HAVE TO ASK REGISTRYCOIN THIS ONE, BUT I BELIEVE MY POSITION ABOVE IS CRYSTAL CLEAR ON THOSE WHO MARKET/REGISTER COINS THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY OWN.
Instead of buying a $40,000 set a collector can pay you guys who will combine your or your customer's (is there a difference?) sets and rent him a spot in the top 5? AGAIN, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, BUT HOPEFULLY PCGS AND NGC WILL ENSURE THAT ANYONE WHO DOES NOT OWN A COIN IN A REGISTRY SET IS BANNED!!
I do not ask this to be inflamatory but I do see that the Top 3-5 spots are locked in for most catagories with coins that were grossly overpaid for when they were low pop coins which now regulary sell on eBay and Teletrade for lots less, the same big name guys have the same coins in most of the sets and the regular collectors are using lower grade coins to complete their sets, which they are making themselves or buying off eBay for less than the cost of slabbing. NO QUESTION HERE DOG?
It would be hard to prove renting/leasing in the first place and the ethics are unknown since this is new ground. It's also a new and ingenious way to squeeze more $$ from a thin market. It's a brilliant idea, I wish I had thought of it. I don't have to worry bout jail and the big money guys don't care as long as they get their precious coin # to enter on the website. However a word of warning: If the normal Joe Smoe Collector doesn't stand a chance to compete in the Registry because he can never move up or afford to since the same dealers keep their guys at the top as long as the money flows people will lose interest in the Registry and you will have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. NO QUESTION HERE, BUT MY COMMENT IS MAKE LISTING A COIN NOT 100% OWNED BY THE LISTING PARTY A SERIOUS REGISTRY "CRIME" (i.e. JUST BAN THAT COLLECTOR OR SUSPEND THEM FOR SEVERAL YEARS ON THE FIRST INFRACTION). ALSO, MAKE THE CRACKING OUT OF COINS IMPROPER TO USE THE TAG FOR REGISTRY PURPOSES. ANYONE USING SUCH A TAG WOULD BE BANNED FOR LIFE FROM THE REGISTRY.
Maybe this is what the big boys want, they can afford to lose their money when the market crashes and then they will be all alone at the top in their exclusive little club. Us little guys have caused the nice coins to be searched out and located and who buys them for next to nothing when we quit?
DOG: AGAIN, YOU SEE FROM MY ANSWERS, WE ARE NOT DISAGREEING ON THESE POINTS. That is why I authored the post in the first place putting would-be offended on notice. Of course, there is no epidemic going on in this area. Again, the goal was to be proactive, not reactive. There was some evidence (not mountains of it) I ran into that a few coins that were not owned were in current Registry. Since the "laws" were unclear exposing the unethical nature of the practice was what I thought to be best. The mechanics were poor, but the intent wasn't.
I am still confused by these recent threads and have some more questions:
#1 Is this lease/rent deal really a problem? SEE WHAT I JUST WROTE ABOVE. SORRY I WAS A STEP AHEAD OF YOU
Throughout numismatic history the true great rarities were in strong hands which manipulated the market after aquiring the coins under questionable circumstances.
#2 If so, then how big of a problem is it? SEE ABOVE
Is it limited to the 2 or 3 top State Quarters sets offering to rent their coins to the 3rd set which is mostly ms67 with a few ms68 sprinkled in? I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THIS WITH RESPECT TO STATE QUARTERS
#3 How does it affect my collection? IT SHOULDN'T AT ALL, ESPECIALLY WITH PCGS AND NGC MAKING CLEAR THAT ONLY OWNED COINS SHOULD COUNT
My collection is still my coins, am I jealous or envious because I can't/won't pay absurd amounts of $$ to actually own these Top Set coins? After all I can't/won't pay ½ million dollars for a Jack Lee DMPL but I have enjoyed Morgans for over 30 years.
#4 How does it affect HD, RC & WC? I SIMPLY POLICED IT. RC HAS SOLD OFF MOST OF HIS SETS ALL TOGETHER SO I ASSUME IT HAS NO IMPACT. HD I NEVER MET, NOR DID I EVER SEE WHAT IS CONTAINED IN HIS VARIOUS SETS. I BELIEVE HE OWNS EVERY COIN IN EVERY SET!!!!!
I'm still trying to figure out Wondercoin's Henny Pennyish thread that the sky is falling and Registrycoins repeated comments as to this being a "loophole."
If this "loophole" and the way it hurts the dealers, collectors and the hobby in general could be explained to me maybe the rest of the members and myself could work toward solving this problem if it indeed even exists. IT WAS A LOOPHOLE I BELIEVE. NOW, LET'S SEE IF SOME COLLECTOR TRIES TO MOVE UP THE REGISTRY LADDER BY USING IMPROPER COINS!!!!!
So what is an agent???<<<an agent with permission to represent a collection>>> I take it that means you can rent/lease but no stealing slab # from eBay auctions? THIS I HAVE NO IDEA, BUT ASSUME PERHAPS THINGS LIKE A TRUSTEE FOR A FAMILY TRUST, ETC.
Does this include being one of the few Modern dealers (agents) holding the highest graded coins for your customers who have not listed their Top Sets and be using them to get the pedigree so you can get more $$ at selling time? I PERSONALLY HOLD -0- COINS FOR ANY CUSTOMERS, EXCEPT ANY COINS THEY HAVE CONSIGNED TO ME FOR SALE. AGAIN, I TRIED TO EXPOSE THE "LOOPHOLE" NOT EXPLOIT IT.
sheesh, I remember when coin collecting was simple! ME TOO!
DOG97: I trust you will be satisfied with my personal opinions.
Wondercoin.
Have you dealers priced coins out of range of the normal collectors and are turning to rental/lease property to make up revenue? CAN'T SPEAK FOR OTHER "DEALERS", BUT I HAVE NEVER RENTED/LEASED A COIN I CAN RECALL AND NEVER INTENDED TO IN THE FUTURE. I THINK THE CONCEPT IS LUDICROUS, AS ARE ALL OTHER FORMS OF NONOWNERSHIP OF COINS CURRENTLY IN REGISTRY SETS. ANY COLLECTOR THAT STOOPS TO HAVING TO LIST SOMETHING IN A REGISTRY SET HE DOES NOT REALLY OWN DESERVES TO BE BANNED FROM THE REGISTRY (OR SUSPENDED FOR A LONG TIME)!!! THIS WAS THE MESSAGE MYSELF AND HD INTENDED TO CONVEY TO THE BOARDS BEFORE IT ALL GOT CAUGHT UP IN THE "POOR PRESENTATION".
Have the buyers of these high priced former pop 1 & 2 coins realized they have made a mistake spending thousands for a coin they can only sell for hundreds now and need to get cash back, thus renting/leasing? AGAIN, THE ISSUE HAS NEVER COME UP. IF SOME OWNER OF A PCGS OF NGC COIN CAME TO ME TO DISCUSS LEASING IT, I WOULD TELL HIM TO TAKE PILLS AND CALL ME IN THE MORNING
Has the Registry craze peaked and the only coins being sold are the $100-$200 coins for the Modern Type? I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN NO SIGN OF THIS WHATSOEVER.
Are collectors finding it's not as hard as they have been led to believe to make high grade coins and they are making their own now? (lots of new 68s & 69 now and the quality supposedly went downhill with the State 25¢ rush on) I AM PERSONALLY HAVING THE HARDEST TIME I HAVE HAD RECENTLY MAKING TOP GRADE COINS. I BELIEVE I AM NOW 0/1500 ON MY LAST STATE QUARTER PROOF COINS THIS YEAR FOR EXAMPLE TRYING FOR PROOF 70 GRADE. I HAVE ONLY GRADED -3- MS68 STATE QUARTERS IN MY LIFE TO THIS DAY WITH PCGS NOTWITHSTANDING MY EXTREMELY HIGH SUBMISSION LEVELS!!
Why is RegistryCoin asking about combining sets? Are you dealers trying to cook up some new money making scheme? YOU'LL HAVE TO ASK REGISTRYCOIN THIS ONE, BUT I BELIEVE MY POSITION ABOVE IS CRYSTAL CLEAR ON THOSE WHO MARKET/REGISTER COINS THEY DO NOT ACTUALLY OWN.
Instead of buying a $40,000 set a collector can pay you guys who will combine your or your customer's (is there a difference?) sets and rent him a spot in the top 5? AGAIN, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, BUT HOPEFULLY PCGS AND NGC WILL ENSURE THAT ANYONE WHO DOES NOT OWN A COIN IN A REGISTRY SET IS BANNED!!
I do not ask this to be inflamatory but I do see that the Top 3-5 spots are locked in for most catagories with coins that were grossly overpaid for when they were low pop coins which now regulary sell on eBay and Teletrade for lots less, the same big name guys have the same coins in most of the sets and the regular collectors are using lower grade coins to complete their sets, which they are making themselves or buying off eBay for less than the cost of slabbing. NO QUESTION HERE DOG?
It would be hard to prove renting/leasing in the first place and the ethics are unknown since this is new ground. It's also a new and ingenious way to squeeze more $$ from a thin market. It's a brilliant idea, I wish I had thought of it. I don't have to worry bout jail and the big money guys don't care as long as they get their precious coin # to enter on the website. However a word of warning: If the normal Joe Smoe Collector doesn't stand a chance to compete in the Registry because he can never move up or afford to since the same dealers keep their guys at the top as long as the money flows people will lose interest in the Registry and you will have killed the goose that laid the golden egg. NO QUESTION HERE, BUT MY COMMENT IS MAKE LISTING A COIN NOT 100% OWNED BY THE LISTING PARTY A SERIOUS REGISTRY "CRIME" (i.e. JUST BAN THAT COLLECTOR OR SUSPEND THEM FOR SEVERAL YEARS ON THE FIRST INFRACTION). ALSO, MAKE THE CRACKING OUT OF COINS IMPROPER TO USE THE TAG FOR REGISTRY PURPOSES. ANYONE USING SUCH A TAG WOULD BE BANNED FOR LIFE FROM THE REGISTRY.
Maybe this is what the big boys want, they can afford to lose their money when the market crashes and then they will be all alone at the top in their exclusive little club. Us little guys have caused the nice coins to be searched out and located and who buys them for next to nothing when we quit?
DOG: AGAIN, YOU SEE FROM MY ANSWERS, WE ARE NOT DISAGREEING ON THESE POINTS. That is why I authored the post in the first place putting would-be offended on notice. Of course, there is no epidemic going on in this area. Again, the goal was to be proactive, not reactive. There was some evidence (not mountains of it) I ran into that a few coins that were not owned were in current Registry. Since the "laws" were unclear exposing the unethical nature of the practice was what I thought to be best. The mechanics were poor, but the intent wasn't.
I am still confused by these recent threads and have some more questions:
#1 Is this lease/rent deal really a problem? SEE WHAT I JUST WROTE ABOVE. SORRY I WAS A STEP AHEAD OF YOU
Throughout numismatic history the true great rarities were in strong hands which manipulated the market after aquiring the coins under questionable circumstances.
#2 If so, then how big of a problem is it? SEE ABOVE
Is it limited to the 2 or 3 top State Quarters sets offering to rent their coins to the 3rd set which is mostly ms67 with a few ms68 sprinkled in? I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THIS WITH RESPECT TO STATE QUARTERS
#3 How does it affect my collection? IT SHOULDN'T AT ALL, ESPECIALLY WITH PCGS AND NGC MAKING CLEAR THAT ONLY OWNED COINS SHOULD COUNT
My collection is still my coins, am I jealous or envious because I can't/won't pay absurd amounts of $$ to actually own these Top Set coins? After all I can't/won't pay ½ million dollars for a Jack Lee DMPL but I have enjoyed Morgans for over 30 years.
#4 How does it affect HD, RC & WC? I SIMPLY POLICED IT. RC HAS SOLD OFF MOST OF HIS SETS ALL TOGETHER SO I ASSUME IT HAS NO IMPACT. HD I NEVER MET, NOR DID I EVER SEE WHAT IS CONTAINED IN HIS VARIOUS SETS. I BELIEVE HE OWNS EVERY COIN IN EVERY SET!!!!!
I'm still trying to figure out Wondercoin's Henny Pennyish thread that the sky is falling and Registrycoins repeated comments as to this being a "loophole."
If this "loophole" and the way it hurts the dealers, collectors and the hobby in general could be explained to me maybe the rest of the members and myself could work toward solving this problem if it indeed even exists. IT WAS A LOOPHOLE I BELIEVE. NOW, LET'S SEE IF SOME COLLECTOR TRIES TO MOVE UP THE REGISTRY LADDER BY USING IMPROPER COINS!!!!!
So what is an agent???<<<an agent with permission to represent a collection>>> I take it that means you can rent/lease but no stealing slab # from eBay auctions? THIS I HAVE NO IDEA, BUT ASSUME PERHAPS THINGS LIKE A TRUSTEE FOR A FAMILY TRUST, ETC.
Does this include being one of the few Modern dealers (agents) holding the highest graded coins for your customers who have not listed their Top Sets and be using them to get the pedigree so you can get more $$ at selling time? I PERSONALLY HOLD -0- COINS FOR ANY CUSTOMERS, EXCEPT ANY COINS THEY HAVE CONSIGNED TO ME FOR SALE. AGAIN, I TRIED TO EXPOSE THE "LOOPHOLE" NOT EXPLOIT IT.
sheesh, I remember when coin collecting was simple! ME TOO!
DOG97: I trust you will be satisfied with my personal opinions.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
0
Comments
The irony here is you are seriously answering someone who goes by the name of 'DOG97'.
That alone is pretty funny.
Overall I am pretty burned out on the whole issue at the moment. I hope everyone has a healthy and Happy New Year