Seperate lawsuit from the class action is filed against U.S. Rare Coin and Bullion Reserve

Michigan

Five coin companies in Beaumont are facing legal troubles. Legal representatives of the late Harold Joseph Tice filed a lawsuit on May 2nd in Jefferson County district court against U.S. Rare Coin and Bullion Reserve, U.S. Money Reserve, Capitol Mint, Providence Rare Coins, The U.S. Vault Collection and three individuals.
The suit claims the defendants used false, misleading and high-pressure sales tactics during the sale of $420,000 in rare, gold, platinum and silver coins. A separate suit filed back in February accused the same companies of defrauding 15 customers in 10 states. The company claims that suit was the result of retaliation by two former employees.

Zoins

Is the same lawyer bringing the suit?

Michigan

<< <i>Is the same lawyer bringing the suit? >>




I'm not sure.

Zoins

Here's an article:

<< <i>Austin Coin Company Faces Lawsuit
Last Edited: Monday, 14 May 2007, 5:54 PM CDT
Created: Monday, 14 May 2007, 5:54 PM CDT

AUSTIN --

An Austin company featured in a “7 on Your Side” Investigation is now facing a lawsuit. Three customers are suing US Rare Coin and Bullion Reserve, also known as US Money Reserve. The suit claims the company sold coins to elderly people at wildly inflated prices.

According to suit, some customers paid for coins at a rate over 300 percent of their actual value. A “7 on Your Side” investigation last August revealed several more elderly customers who appraisers said paid way too much for their coins.

The executive director of US Rare Coin and Bullion told FOX 7 news that the lawsuit if “frivolous.” He stated that the company offered the plaintiffs a full refund. He also said his company does not target seniors and does not sell overvalued coins. >>

It's interesting that the company claims to have offered a full refund. Perhaps the plaintiffs think they'll hit the lottery by suing?

Michigan

<< <i>Here's an article:

<< <i>Austin Coin Company Faces Lawsuit
Last Edited: Monday, 14 May 2007, 5:54 PM CDT
Created: Monday, 14 May 2007, 5:54 PM CDT

AUSTIN --

An Austin company featured in a “7 on Your Side” Investigation is now facing a lawsuit. Three customers are suing US Rare Coin and Bullion Reserve, also known as US Money Reserve. The suit claims the company sold coins to elderly people at wildly inflated prices.

According to suit, some customers paid for coins at a rate over 300 percent of their actual value. A “7 on Your Side” investigation last August revealed several more elderly customers who appraisers said paid way too much for their coins.

The executive director of US Rare Coin and Bullion told FOX 7 news that the lawsuit if “frivolous.” He stated that the company offered the plaintiffs a full refund. He also said his company does not target seniors and does not sell overvalued coins. >>

It's interesting that the company claims to have offered a full refund. Perhaps the plaintiffs think they'll hit the lottery by suing? >>



I think this is talking about the earlier lawsuit. If the more recent one is through the same attorney what would be the advantage in
going seperate from the class action? Any legal experts out there?

Zoins

Here's another article. The lawyer is plaintiffs' attorney is Jason Gibson. Here's the company's response.

<< <i>Dean Leipsner, executive director of the United States Rare Coin and Bullion Reserve in Austin, said the lawsuit was "ridiculous and frivolous."

"We offer every one of our clients a full refund on the coins that they bought," Leipsner said. The company doesn't make cold calls and sells government- issued gold coins, he said.

"Mr. Gibson just must be looking for attorney's fees," Leipsner said. >>

Zoins

<< <i>I think this is talking about the earlier lawsuit. >>

They are different lawsuits. The earlier lawsuit that was discussed here was against Mike Fuljenz's companies: Universal Coin & Bullion, 1st American Reserve, 1st Capital Reserve, etc. According to this page that lawsuit was settled.

<< <i>If the more recent one is through the same attorney what would be the advantage in going seperate from the class action? >>

If the plaintiff law firm is the same, I assume the advantages of having separate lawsuits would be to be able to settle with each group separately. After all, the goal of many of these suits is to get a settlement and why have extra ownership parties as defendants that can delay the process?

numisma

Notice how their response is evasive? Who cares if they offer "full refunds" or that they sell "government-issued gold coins"? The heirs usually don't know the initial cost of the coins, so rarely would they even be asked for a refund. I bet that the majority of their sales "stick" at 300% over what the items could have been purchased for.

Zoins

I've spoken to a rep from 1st Capital Reserve but not the companies in this current lawsuit. 1st Capital Reserve is also seeking to get relatively large amounts of money from people without knowledge in the coin market as I believe these other companies as well. If these companies are going to continue to do this I believe they need to be regulated like stock brokers. As in everything they say on the phone or via email needs to be recorded and regulated. There's too much potential for abuse, whether at a company level or at an individual level. Whether regulations happen will depend on how much people lose in aggregate and how much they complain. Although I think regulations would help, my guess is that, as much as people have lost, they may not have lost enough to justify creating a government regulatory body. While settlements may be in the interests of the plaintiff attorneys, perhaps they may not be in the overall interests of numismatics or potential customers.

mrearlygold

My bet is this is going to eventually effect the entire coin industry.

DesertRat

I see full-page and two-page full color ads in our local paper every weekend advertising GW Dollars, state quarters or other "collectible" coins at outrageous prices. But! They give you a free coin with each purchase. Recently there was a full-page ad for "bags of unsearched silver coins"

Zoins

If these companies are forced to stop or severely curtail their practices, will the bottom fall out of the already limping widget market?

Zoins

<< <i>I see full-page and two-page full color ads in our local paper every weekend advertising GW Dollars, state quarters or other "collectible" coins at outrageous prices. But! They give you a free coin with each purchase. Recently there was a full-page ad for "bags of unsearched silver coins" >>

What sellers are allowed to say in print or even on television often pales in comparison to what they say on the phone in terms of convincing people why their outrageous prices are a great deal.

I also doubt the people responding to those local paper ads are individually spending tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars on P$s, SHQs and other collectibles listed in the print ads.

mrearlygold

<< <i>If these companies are forced to stop or severely curtail their practices, will the bottom fall out of the already limping widget market? >>



It's not just that. It's the perception based on who it is.

Longacre

<< <i>I've spoken to a rep from 1st Capital Reserve but not the companies in this current lawsuit. 1st Capital Reserve is also seeking to get relatively large amounts of money from people without knowledge in the coin market as I believe these other companies as well. If these companies are going to continue to do this I believe they need to be regulated like stock brokers. As in everything they say on the phone or via email needs to be recorded and regulated. There's too much potential for abuse, whether at a company level or at an individual level. Whether regulations happen will depend on how much people lose in aggregate and how much they complain. Although I think regulations would help, my guess is that, as much as people have lost, they may not have lost enough to justify creating a government regulatory body. While settlements may be in the interests of the plaintiff attorneys, perhaps they may not be in the overall interests of numismatics or potential customers. >>




There are regulatory bodies already in place that can govern these companies. Sometimes some oversight is good. I cannot do anything in my job without taking into account Sarbanes-Oxley, FIN 48, or other disclosures. And all I am doing is some tax planning. For people who are investing big money with people who are essentially brokers, those coin dealers/brokers should be regulated too.

MadMarty

I saw one in the paper today for $50 rolls of GW dollars, these are rolls not released to the public! You can own one of these one of a kind collectors items for $299 a roll!!! :LOL