Have my Mantle '52 topps GAI 7 on E-Bay.
coastrebcoastreb
Posts: 102
What do you think of it. Nobody in going to get a "deal" on it, but will have the opportunity to purchase one of the better Mantle's out there. This is one sweet card. Give me you opinion on it. thanks.
wayne mills
wayne mills
Wayne Mills
0
Comments
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings
Based on the scans, I think this card is worthy of a PSA 7 grade.
wayne
wayne
wayne
D's: 50P,49S,45D+S,43D,41S,40D,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 241,435,610,654 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings
<< <i>Since the card is GAI and not PSA, it is not even worth looking at. Anyone knows PSA graded cards versus GAI graded cards in the same grade realize more money.The comment spending the money is not worth the reward tells me volumes. I'll take a pass! >>
Wow, pass the kool aid.
Considering you bought your 52T Mantle GAI 7 from MHCC for $24,100 just a few months ago and that the same card in a PSA 7 holder has sold for $30,000 to $42,000 over the past 2 years, it's hard to believe that you wouldn't be interested or haven't already spent the additional $200 in grading fees (which is less than 1% of your cost basis) in an attempt to get PSA to cross it over to a PSA 7 holder.
From my own experience, i've learned the hard (and expensive) way that a lot of crap has been encapsulated into GAI holders. About 2 years ago, I started to buy what appeared to be high grade GAI graded cards at a substantial discount to what the same card was selling for in a PSA holder with a comparable grade.
I'll be honest. I don't collect GAI graded cards and was not planning on starting a GAI graded card collection. I only bought them because I was hoping I could crack out or cross the cards to PSA holders and then flip them at a profit.
What was i thinking.....
When I look back with 20/20 hindsight, I can only laugh at what a fool i was to have seriously thought i was sitting in the middle of an arbitrage opportunity in which i could buy "undervalued" GAI cards, cross them over into PSA slabs, and then flip them for a fat profit.
At the time the 52T Mantle GAI 7 card was listed on eBay, i remember thinking it was odd that MHCC using eBay to sell a such a high-grade Mantle rookie when they have could have easily saved it for their next catalog auction which would help them net incremental revenue from the 17.5% juice. Not to mention, a Mantle rookie of this caliber (when legit) is pure eye candy and would have looked great on the cover of their next auction catalog.
Besides, if the Mantle card was a strong candidate to crossover to a PSA 7 slab, why was MHCC acting as the seller and not a buyer when they could have easily purchased the card for their own account to flip for a decent size gain?
In my case, i hate to admit it but greed blinded my good judgment. As a result, I made some poor decisions that caused me to lose more money than i'm willing to acknowledge on a public BBS. Hopefully, by admitting today just how stupid i had been, i can help prevent others from making the same stupid mistake.
I honestly hope you didn't make the same mistake that I made. However, if you did, I hope you don't compound the error by trying to get someone else to repeat the same mistake again.
very nice card regardless of the holder it is in!
Well said.
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
Thanks for your input. I had the same feeling when i considered buying the card from Mile High so I called them. I talked to one of the top men( name escapes me right now) and he assured me that the card had never been submitted to PSA and IF i ever did submit it and there was a problem that he would return my money. I got him to e-mail that fact and then purchased the card. That's about all i could do at the time and felt comfortable with what he said. I could have sent it to PSA, ( i just sent a GAI 3.5 to PSA for cross over) but i did not feel comfortable sending that high priced card away. I know that it would be insured but still hated to risk letting the card out of my sight. It really is a beautiful card. thanks again
wayne
wait until there's a large show near you and pay the walk thru fee if you ever want to cross it.
thanks, that's a good idea. Problem is I live in Mississippi and I don't know when or where a show will be near here. PSA is in CA. a very long distance away. I just got off the phone with JP at Memory Lane Auctions and talked to him about my card and GAI. He said he did not have any problem with GAI and lists many cards graded by GAI in his auctions. Remember, this is Memory Lane not Mile High so he had no vested interest in the card or how it was graded. He said PSA has a bigger following because of the registry sets. He advised me to trust my judgement in the cards i buy if I am experienced in card collecting(have been since 1980) and not let people get to me. ha
thanks for the suggestion.
wayne
Really? It's equally likely that blue227 didn't do his homework in adequately examining the GAI cards that he bought, which makes him at least partly responsible for his self described foolish endeavor. To shuck off responsibility onto GAI as the sole reason is his cards wouldn't cross is something only a blind man should do, because otherwise we all have two eyes with which WE CAN EXAMINE THE CARDS AND APPLY THE GRADING STANDARDS OURSELVES. In fact, anyone who was sophisticated enough to sense a potential arbitrage opportunity by buying GAI cards at a "discount" and then flipping them should also be sophisticated enough to examine the cards closely and know whether most of them had a shot at crossing. I like to think serious collectors are smarter than most think, and can actually bat .850-.900 by taking the time to know the grading standards and educating themselves on what to look for. What grading companies do is not rocket science.
I get so sick of seeing this on this board. Here a guy has a really nice '52 Mantle and people are taking shots at him and the card he owns. People whine, complain, and take shots at other third party grading companies as if they should not exist. Problem is, if they didn't exist people would whine and complain about their nonexistence.
Stay classy,
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
Besides, I do think there is is a bias on PSA and SGC's part towards GAI cards and the card is better in a GAI 7 holder than in a PSA or SGC 6 holder.
I also would not want to risk bending or otherwise damaging the card by cracking it out of its existing holder.
Thus, as I am in the same position as Wayne, and agree with him to keep the card in its existing holder and find a buyer who wants to "buy the card, not the holder".
Good luck on your auction, Wayne...
Link to Wayne's GAI 7 Mantle
I agree with everything you said concerning the need to see the card in person to make a well informed opinion on it's grade. The sentence where you state" if it's still in a GAI holder, there must be an issue with it" is where we differ. In this months Sports Market Report, Mile High Card Company has a two page color ad. In this ad, at least half the cards shown are in GAI holders. This is a PSA magazine. so why would one of the largest card auction companies risk their reputation by showing any of their cards in GAI holders? Surley they could cross them over if they felt a need to do so. In fact, Memory Lane Auctions also lists many GAI cards in this months auction. JP, at Memory Lane told me that he had no problem at all with GAI when I spoke with him last week.
another thing, on page 14 of the SMR, Joe Orlando, who looks like he is about 14, talks about grading at PSA. He admits that most of the grading is done with the naked eye, no rulers, no magnifying glass, just looking at the card with the naked eye. No Rocket science here. I've seen what I felt was mis-graded cards by PSA everyday. Either too high or mostly too low. It's just one man's opinion. Let's just let it go at that. That's my opinion, I may be wrong.
wayne mills
I don't blame GAI for their grading standards (nor PRO, CSA, or any other grading company for that matter). I blame myself for giving more credibility than I should have to the GAI authentication process, business model, and grading standards. I had heard about how GAI was founded by two of the original founders of PSA and ended up giving their company more credit than I should have. Dumb mistake. My mistake.
I'm not here to trash Wayne or his Mantle card. His card looks great in its GAI holder and will hopefully be purchased by someone who is looking for a GAI graded Mantle rookie (or who is indifferent to the brand of the grading company) and plans on keeping the card in its current holder. However, if a potential buyer is contemplating buying it with the hopes that it crosses over into a different grading company's holder (say, for example, PSA or SGC), I'd be concerned.
Like the majority of sellers of professionally graded cards on eBay (including me when i sell stuff on eBay), Wayne is not accepting returns or offering refunds for this card. I don't blame him and I don't think he should. Through my experience, i have found that grading companies have been known to make mistakes.
Sadly, the secondary re-sale market for some brands of graded cards is like a children's game of musical chairs. Everyone is happy just as long as they're not the only one left standing when the music ends. It happened to me and i lost a decent chunk of change in the process. Since then, I've stopped playing the game and would advise others that its not worth playing.
___________________
Moving on to a different, but not entirely unrelated, topic, I was disappointed to see REA offer those lots of high end "Authentic" cards in their latest auction. I have the utmost respect for folks at REA and truly appreciate the differences in their business code of ethics when compared to other auction houses.
That said, even with their full disclosure that the cards in the lot has been altered, did they really do the right thing by putting them back into circulation? I just hope that whoever bought those cards plans to keep them that way and has no plans on cracking them out to try to re-sell. Still, i wouldn't be surprised to hear that those cards get cracked out and put back into circulation.
1) How about here:
Thanks for your input. I had the same feeling when i considered buying the card from Mile High so I called them. I talked to one of the top men( name escapes me right now) and he assured me that the card had never been submitted to PSA and IF i ever did submit it and there was a problem that he would return my money. I got him to e-mail that fact and then purchased the card.
Of course our seller with his feedback of 88 and a 98.9 rating will not refund anything. He talked to one of the top men whose name escapes him, but he has an E-mail? How did the guy sign the E-mail? Mr. X???????, The Shadow????? Gary the pack rewrapper?????. FYI
Brian Drent runs Mile High and Jose is the #2 man. Why didn't our seller post this email in his auction?
2) This card has never been submitted to PSA. Just from my experience of owning numerous "52 Topps Mantle's, I did not see the reward in paying them to grade it. I just sent in a '52 Topps Mantle GAI 3.5 that will probably come back a 3, but this GAI 7 is a jewel. I'll keep it until someone agrees that this is a special card and deserves the 7 that it is. Thanks so much for your interest....I could have sent it to PSA, ( i just sent a GAI 3.5 to PSA for cross over) but i did not feel comfortable sending that high priced card away. I know that it would be insured but still hated to risk letting the card out of my sight. It really is a beautiful card. thanks again
Why does that remind me of this?
T206 Wagner
PSA does not want your card. They grade millions. They make a boatload off of that, they have no long term incentive to steal or swap out your card. Insure the thing to the hilt and send it double top secret with the post office.
3) For the buy the card, not the holder cliche, It is hard to get make the right decision if you are not 100% certain the card is not a fake or has been altered.
I have no idea if the card is real or not. Assuming that it is you can make a lot more usually with a PSA holder than a GAI holder. That is just economics.
Based upon history there is a pecking order of trust in the market. You got your PSA or SGC where people are paying for the peace of mind of knowing that there card is most likely real. You can head south from there with the rest. GAI is closer to the top than the bottom of the pack, but on an expensive card you are still at risk.
To me it is like auto insurance. You have your State Farm, Prudential, All State etc. and you will pay higher premiums or you can go to some discount company and hope they are there when you need them.
Like it or not you have knocked a large quantity of buyers off of your list by and most likely thousands of dollars by refusing to legitimize that card.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Thanks for you smart ass input. I'll try to reply.
First, I was at work when I posted on the forum and therefore did not have the e-mail to refer to as to the name of the person I talked to at Mile High. The e-mail states as follows,
"wayne, Brian says the card has never been to PSA, Thanks, Ben" Take it for what it's worth, but I was not lying.
I didn't know that Columbo would be calling me a liar or I would have waited until I got home so I could have given you his name.
Second. You are right, I have a 98.9 rating on feedback. I was sent a creased photo on ebay so I gave a negative feedback, he then in turn gave me one even though he had been paid the day I bought the photo. One negative out of 88 gives you a 98.9 rating.
Third. Your right, if it's a graded card there will be no returns. If you don't want it, don't buy it.
Fourth. If you can't see the greater risk in sending an $8,000 (GAI 3.5) compared to a GAI 7 (twenty something thousand), then you are as dumb as you are funny. I'll send a 3.5 but i'll walk through the 7 if it gets to that.
Last. you can degrade my card but when you get personal as to my character then I'll take it personal.
well, really last. I have enjoyed this forum since a collector friend of mine recommended it. Lately, it seems people's opinions have gotten to be more of a way to vent anger or just plain insult the person who was merely asking for an opinion. I think I'll just keep my questions to myself and you can nick pick someone else.
wayne mills
not trying to be funny or columbo, just pointing out the facts.
how are you going to ship the card to the lucky buyer. unless you hand deliver at some point it is going to between you and the buyer. you plan to send it priority mail. what if it gets lost? you trust the post office to send it out, but not to get it graded?
i believe you are afraid of the results of psa grading so you would prefer to stick a questionable item to someone else. you have standards of consumer protection when you are the buyer, but none when you are the seller.
then when you get called out you get defensive. (don't like it, don't bid) i don't have to get personal. your lack of ethics have defined your personality.
i may be dumb, but a reputation as an honest person trying to do the right thing means a lot to me. the one thing that i do appreciate on this board is that the people that last the longest have integrity. they may rip on me about my politics or other beliefs but at the end of the day they stand for something other than a quick buck.
as robert zimmerman once said, you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
first, i want to apologize to other forum members for the expletive I used in my first response to you. I do think that just by the name you use "theczar" which means "one having great authority" says alot about you. In a forum where we are just trying to have fun discussing card collecting, you take it to a level where you as "theczar" question my integrity, moral principles and honesty. Do you write Mile High, whom you seem to know well, and call out their lack of ethics and slam them for selling GAI graded cards for a quick buck. I don't think so.
This is just a forum where you give your opinion, not state it as fact . you know nothing about me or my moral principles. I was just wanting to discuss my Mantle card with other collectors, not being attacked by you as some "know it all" that thinks that if I don't pay $200 for someone at PSA to judge my card then I am some kind of thief. I know other members are tired of us squabbling on their forum so I will not reply to any additional comments by you. I'm sure as "theczar" you have other poor slobs to demean. Your suggestions and opinions are welcome, but you can keep your personal judgements to yourself, I don't need them.
again, I apologize to others if my words were not in good taste.
wayne mills
you should be very proud of the '52 Mantle card that you have in your possesion. I see a lot of people degrading you and your card out of pure jealousy because they don't own one and probably never will. Me personally can get by without a Mantle Rookie, however there are those who can't and their anxiety for the card really shows by trying to throw you and your prized possesion under the bus. As far as your card being in the GAI holder so be it. That's what it is holdered in and that's where it is gonna stay. So be it. Good luck with the card. If you are a true collector and not a jealous collector you should be happy for Wayne and his jewel.
As for the hammer price I suspect this card would sell for very similar prices in a GAI 7 holder or the PSA 6. Most $10K+ cards work their way around until they are in the holder with the highest grade possible, so I don't know why Wayne is taking so much heat. He included big scans and didn't even spam PSA in the title.
By the way I have no "poor slobs" to demean. Just in your case if it walks like a duck......
Lets see since I have no clue to what your name means I'll go to more facts.
You have so much love for this card that you are flipping it less than two months after buying it. This card is one of the holy grails in the card world. I have a 1951 Bowman Mantle PSA 1 and would not think of parting with it. You get a 1952 Topps and are bored in seven weeks. Again all this tells volume of you character. You don't want to collect cards and the rich history involved with them. NOPE it's all about the cash for you.
As far as my experience with MHCC-they are dealers, that is how they put food on the table. Your sappy line I'll keep it until someone agrees that this is a special card and deserves the 7 that it is is a bunch of BS. What you meant is I'll keep it until someone forks up enough money to make me happy.
Next you find some pal of yours that has started posting since Wednesday to come back you up. (Ironic that he is a Pete Rose fan, don't you think).
Since you won't comeback I have four questions that I guess I'll never know the answers:
1) How are you getting the card to the winner if you don't trust the mail?
2) Why won't you guarantee the same refund policy that you insisted upon?
3) Who are you afraid of at PSA reviewing this card? If I could make a lot more money with a PSA the $200 would be well spent.
4) If the card is so great why do you need a reserve? This thing should sell itself.
You seem to very evasive on these questions. I am a not a know-it-all as you claim, but your selling behavior in this case of expecting more than you wish to give, flipping a great card for money, coming up with some crazy story of not trusting the mail to send it to PSA (INSURANCE, INSURANCE, INSURANCE).
You are very fond of puting words in peoples mouth and using inappropriate language. You just have too many inconsistancies to be taken serious. Once can be a mistake, twice is a pattern.
Czar
thanks
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
you make it impossibe not to reply to your stupid remarks. First of all, you have now insulted others on this board. The good posters that have taken the time to respond favorable to my card do not know me from Adam. The gentleman that is a Pete Rose fan will LOVE you. Sagard will also appreciate your statement. Now you are questioning their integrity. I'm sure you will hear from them when they find that you are now questioning THEIR moral principles. The great CZAR strikes again.
Concerning my love for my GAI 7 and WHY would I sell it. I mentioned that I also have a GAI 3.5 so I have 2 Mantles.. The reason I said it will probably come back a 3 is because PSA does not mid-grade, 3.5 ect. As far as the rich history in card collecting that I don't have, let me assure you that I have been a serious card collector since 1980. I'll put my collection up aganist yours anyday. If it was all about cash, I could sell out, but I am more of a collector than a seller. Believe me or not. I had a pic of my showcase on a PSA 4.
Why would I refund a card graded by GAI. As Sagard stated, this is not PRO. The buyer could scratch it, break it, or anything ,so why, If they can SEE what they are buying would I offer a refund?
Why do I need a RESERVE? are you crazy? You think I'd put a '52 Topps Mantle on ebay then take pot luck as to what i get for it? get real. Now if i had a '51 BOWMAN PSA 1
I might roll the dice.
You are right. I WILL keep the card until someone offers me enough to make it worth selling it. I thought that is what E-Bay is for. If I ever get it to PSA you can be sure i'll WALK it through.
Please, lets just move on and agree to disagree on this one. This is a no win situation and you are truly living up to your name Mr. Czar.
later,
wayne
With all due respect, you did start this thread and ask for opinions, both pro and con, and if there's one thing I've learned on these boards is that you will get honest, unvarnished opinions if you invite them. Also, it does seem a bit odd (to me at least) that you'd be turning around and flipping a 24K Mantle RC essentially within a month after your purchase of it. A card like this one is not normally seen for sale on ebay twice by different sellers within such a short time frame. Just my two cents.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Thanks for your response. I'll try to answer. First, I bought the GAI 3.5, which I might add is a beautiful card, with the intention of keeping it forever. I then saw the GAI 7 on sell by Mile High and bid on it. I really was suprised when I won the auction but glad never the less since I hold Mile High in great respect. As I said in my previous post, I have been collecting since 1980, and if you believe my wife I am card poor. I now have all the Mantles with two of the 1952 Topps. I bid on the card with the intention of selling it down the road. When I received the card I was blown away by how nice it was. The color is something else with no creases or scratches. If it sells that will be great, if not, I'll keep it and decide later which to sell, if either. If it does not sell at a price that I want, I'll probably think hard about getting it in a PSA holder later. Not because of anything wrong with GAI, but PSA seems to be what most want.
You're right, I did ask for opinions ect. on my card. What I did not expect is how rude some people can be when giving their opinions. It kinda got to me, but what the heck. I personally called Mile High and Memory Lane and asked their opinions on GAI graded cards. They both said they had no problem with GAI but that PSA commanded most of the market due to registry sets? Both asked if I would like to list my card in their upcoming auctions. I'll just hold on to it if it does not sell, as I don't see the value of these cards going down anytime soon. Thanks again for your post . I just hope future posts will be as cordial.
wayne mills
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I have a question for you - please send me your email address
My email address
my e-mail address id coastreb2123@yahoo.com
wayne
Good luck though on your sale.
Steve
Since my auction ended $50.00 below my reserve I might put up again or send it to PSA for cross grading. As I posted earlier, I sent in my T52 Mantle Gai 3.5 and got back a 4 from PSA. I was very happy for that. When grading first started, I sent in a Reggie Jackson rookie card that I have gotten from a pack of cards never opened. It came back as trimmed, which was impossible since I was the ONLY person who ever owned it. It's just a chance you take when you send a card in. I will list a grade that is the lowest I will accept, then at least I can get back the card in the holder that I sent it in. I'll let you know what I get IF I send it to PSA. I really think It should get a 7, but we'll see. Thanks for your post.
wayne
wayne
since the auction was only $50 below your reserve, i would have figured that you would have offered it to the high bidder considering the amount. $50 off of $30,000 isnt bad.