TSN 100 Greatest...
Ladder7
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Thought someone here may want this list. It's a .jpg and should be easy to print/share. Enjoy
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Also, is that your Ladder Co. in NYC ?
My grandfather was FDNY way back in the day .
He used to be the Tillerman .
# 3954
Bosox1976
I'm not even a Yankees fan but I don't understand that.
Looking for Jonny Gomes cards, especially Triple Threads and printing plates. Will consider all cards, though. Got something? Contact me at c_u_l_1@yahoo.com
I know they are experts, but the list is compiled
using subjective opinions that are refined by
consensus-math. (Almost like expensive-card grading.)
Sometimes, "greatest" gets muddled with "most famous."
Since success in baseball is built on math, it may be
more appropriate to make such lists using pure stats.
At least the stats should be used in some way to
mitigate the effects of the subjective opinions.
Not a terrible list at all. But not really perfect at all.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6?
<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please. >>
I take it you're not a big baseball fan? Aaron and Gehrig are exactly where they should be on the list. Both are defnitely in the top 10 of all time.
<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6? >>
Yeah how do explain one of the greatest home run hitters of all time behing "too high up" on the list??
1 Babe Ruth
2 Willie Mays
3 Ty Cobb
4 Walter Johnson
5 Hank Aaron
6 Barry Bonds
7 Lou Gehrig
8 Christy Mathewson
9 Ted Williams
10 Rogers Hornsby
11 Stan Musial
12 Joe DiMaggio
13 Pete Alexander
14 Honus Wagner
15 Roger Clemens
16 Cy Young
17 Jimmie Foxx
18 Johnny Bench
19 Mickey Mantle
20 Josh Gibson
21 Satchel Paige
22 Roberto Clemente
23 Warren Spahn
24 Frank Robinson
25 Lefty Grove
26 Eddie Collins
27 Pete Rose
28 Sandy Koufax
29 Tris Speaker
30 Mike Schmidt
31 Napoleon LaJoie
32 Steve Carlton
33 Bob Gibson
34 Tom Seaver
35 George Sisler
36 Joe Jackson
37 Bob Feller
38 Hank Greenberg
39 Ernie Banks
40 Yogi Berra
41 Nolan Ryan
42 Mel Ott
43 Al Simmons
44 Jackie Robinson
45 Carl Hubbell
46 Charley Gehringer
47 Buck Leonard
48 Reggie Jackson
49 Roy Campanella
50 Rickey Henderson
51 Greg Maddux
52 Whitey Ford
53 Harry Heilmann
54 George Brett
55 Willie McCovey
56 Bill Dickey
57 Tony Gwynn
58 Lou Brock
59 Bill Terry
60 Randy Johnson
61 Joe Morgan
62 Rod Carew
63 Paul Waner
64 Eddie Mathews
65 Jim Palmer
66 Mickey Cochrane
67 Cool Papa Bell
68 Oscar Charleston
69 Eddie Plank
70 Alex Rodriguez
71 Harmon Killebrew
72 Pie Traynor
73 Juan Marichal
74 Carl Yastrzemski
75 Lefty Gomez
76 Robin Roberts
77 Willie Keeler
78 Al Kaline
79 Cal Ripken, Jr.
80 Eddie Murray
81 Joe Medwick
82 Brooks Robinson
83 Willie Stargell
84 Mark McGwire
85 Ed Walsh
86 Duke Snider
87 Sam Crawford
88 Dizzy Dean
89 Ozzie Smith
90 Frank Frisch
91 Ralph Kiner
92 Chuck Klein
93 Ken Griffey, Jr.
94 Wade Boggs
95 Sammy Sosa
96 Dave Winfield
97 Derek Jeter
98 Gaylord Perry
99 Dennis Eckersley
100 Paul Molitor
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
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<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6? >>
Yeah how do explain one of the greatest home run hitters of all time behing "too high up" on the list?? >>
I guess I don't assign as much value to longevity records as most people.
1. still active - many
2. just became eligible - McGwire
3. lifetime ban - Joe Jackson
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>
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<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6? >>
Yeah how do explain one of the greatest home run hitters of all time behing "too high up" on the list?? >>
I guess I don't assign as much value to longevity records as most people. >>
In your mind, Gehrig is that high because of his longevity record? Not his .340 lifetime average? Not averaging about 35 homers and 140+ RBI's per year? Not being 3rd all time in slugging and OPS?
No offense, but you are a dope.
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<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6? >>
Yeah how do explain one of the greatest home run hitters of all time behing "too high up" on the list?? >>
I guess I don't assign as much value to longevity records as most people. >>
In your mind, Gehrig is that high because of his longevity record? Not his .340 lifetime average? Not averaging about 35 homers and 140+ RBI's per year? Not being 3rd all time in slugging and OPS?
No offense, but you are a dope. >>
Sorry, I didn't realize you had a man crush.
<< <i>It's not just home runs though. He has 3771 hits,was a huge threat for stolen bases in the 60s, was a great doubles hitter, and had great plate discipline. I think anywhere lower than 10 would be a slap in the face. >>
And that's probably where I'd assign him, 10-15 or so. I just don't think he should be number 5.
No one is saying he isn't one of the all time great players (or Gehrig either). I just don't think he's the number 5 all time greatest player.
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<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6? >>
Yeah how do explain one of the greatest home run hitters of all time behing "too high up" on the list?? >>
I guess I don't assign as much value to longevity records as most people. >>
In your mind, Gehrig is that high because of his longevity record? Not his .340 lifetime average? Not averaging about 35 homers and 140+ RBI's per year? Not being 3rd all time in slugging and OPS?
No offense, but you are a dope. >>
Sorry, I didn't realize you had a man crush. >>
I don't have to have a man-crush on Lou Gehrig to realize what a moron you are. Who should be up there if not him?
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<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6? >>
Yeah how do explain one of the greatest home run hitters of all time behing "too high up" on the list?? >>
I guess I don't assign as much value to longevity records as most people. >>
In your mind, Gehrig is that high because of his longevity record? Not his .340 lifetime average? Not averaging about 35 homers and 140+ RBI's per year? Not being 3rd all time in slugging and OPS?
No offense, but you are a dope. >>
Sorry, I didn't realize you had a man crush. >>
I don't have to have a man-crush on Lou Gehrig to realize what a moron you are. Who should be up there if not him? >>
How about Manny Mota! Well, he has a cooler sounding name anyway if you echo it off the loud speakers
It is as if the first 50 are primarily old guys, and the next 50 start to see the post 1960 guys. This is the typical list, and as usual it is typically wrong.
Most statisticians have never accounted for the reasons for this, and most non statistician historians are so off, they of course do not either(these are the guys who put Sisler so high).
Most people are so brainwashed to the top 20, that it will pretty much remain that way for all of our lifetimes, and our kids'. This board is pretty much the same way, and there is nothing that will move their 'idols' down in pecking order. They are now legends and myths, and those die hard.
They can't get past the 'numbers' of Lou Gehrig, or others...but those numbers are like that for reasons(reasons not just pertaiing to how good one is). It is an extremely tough thing for fans to get past, but we all need heroes I guess.
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<< <i>Aaron and Gehrig 5 and 6? Please.
They deserve to be on the list obviously but 5 and 6? >>
Yeah how do explain one of the greatest home run hitters of all time behing "too high up" on the list?? >>
I guess I don't assign as much value to longevity records as most people. >>
In your mind, Gehrig is that high because of his longevity record? Not his .340 lifetime average? Not averaging about 35 homers and 140+ RBI's per year? Not being 3rd all time in slugging and OPS?
No offense, but you are a dope. >>
Sorry, I didn't realize you had a man crush. >>
I don't have to have a man-crush on Lou Gehrig to realize what a moron you are. Who should be up there if not him? >>
You clearly have an emotional investment in this, so I'll try not to disturb that further if possible.
In my opinion, Gehrig isn't the 6th all time greatest baseball player. In the top 20, sure. Number 6? I don't think so. Just because you have a different opinion, doesn't make anyone else a moron. Try and develop rational debating skills and I'll be glad to listen to your opinion.
As far as the statistics you mentioned, sure, they're great. But Gehrig has always been remembered for his consecutive game streak and that's why he was listed as number 6. I personally don't assign as much value to that as most people would, and therefore, he wouldn't be number 6 on my list.
Phenomenal stats, regardless of what Era they played in. Can you imagine Aaron and Gherig playing today, with great conditioning, supplements, expansion, 5 man rotations. The numbers they would put up would be staggering. Heck Ted Williams might walk 200+ time a year against the current pitching environment.
It wouldn't be much different than the stud who hits .660 in high school, or strikes out 24 batters per nine innings...well until he played against more players who are as good as he
It could have been a league, Jamestown, Plymouth, heck maybe even an Indian tribe like the Wampanoag's. Chief Massasoit as commissioner? How about chief Wahunsenacawh's curve against Jon Smith?
I can imagine how many HR per game Mike Schmidt would be hitting against that competition, and he would be viewed as a God...though he wouldn't be any better a player than he was when he played in the stifest competitive era. His ability would be the same, but it is his numbers that would look different based on the circumstances!
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
There are just enough players ranked just close enough to where they belong to present the illusion that the listmakers had a clue what they were doing. They didn't.
<< <i>Thought someone here may want this list. It's a .jpg and should be easy to print/share. Enjoy
Why is it that these lists are overly fascinated with the past? Is it due to hindsight bias? Is it due to America's love affair with all things nostalgic?
Today, we are witnessing some of the greatest feats in all of sports, by athletes that are much better than those of yesteryear even without performance enhancing chemicals. Just like the athletes of tomorrow will be better than the athletes of today.
Not only is this list too top heavy on players from the early 20th century, it fails because it places too much credit on a player's celebrity status.
Some things I noticed on the list:
Barry Bonds - he should be higher on the list. Sure, people will moan and groan, but he is that good of a player.
Joe DiMaggio at #12? For what, doing the era's hottest girl? Yes, he was great, and I love what he did for Italian-Americans, but no way is he #12.
Mickey Mantle at #19? He has to be higher. Look at how dominant he was in the league back then. Consistently rated #1 in many offensive categories.
Sandy Koufax at #28 – 5-7 dominant seasons do not equal #28. You will place this guy higher than Maddux, who was #51? You have to be kidding me.
Jackie Robinson at #44 – why? He was great, but others were better, even considering his days before MLB.
Reggie Jackson at #48? NY bias here? Guy was one dimensional with a ton of K’s.
Greg Maddux at #51? Sorry you had to play in ATL, Greg. People ignore you there. Meanwhile, Roger Clemens is near the top.
Tony Gwynn at #57? Stop it!! The greatest hitter since Ted Williams and he gets #57? Just plain silly.
Harmon Killebrew at #71? Guess who was #2 behind “The Mick” all those years? Needs to be much higher.
Yaz at #74? People hate this guy because he took over for Ted Williams? Needs to be higher.
Ripken Jr at #79?. Sorry, he needs to be lower.
McGwire at #84? Also lower
Ken Griffey Jr needs to be much higher than #93.
Jeter shouldn’t even be on this list.
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3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
Lou should be there without question...rember the Babe had Lou protecting him in the lineup for years....who was batting behind Lou????
Exactly my point.
<< <i>That list is almost offensive in the level of ignorance it displays. Bill Terry better than Rod Carew? Ozzie Smith better than Robin Yount? Christy Mathewson better than Lefty Grove? Nolan Ryan better than Greg Maddux? Lou Brock better than Carl Yastrzemski? Pie Traynor better than Brooks Robinson? Joe DiMaggio better than Mickey Mantle? Honus Wagner at 14th??? And what in God's name are Lefty Gomez and Frank Frisch doing within a country mile of a top 100 list? The list of jaw-droppingly stupid choices is nearly as long as the list itself.
There are just enough players ranked just close enough to where they belong to present the illusion that the listmakers had a clue what they were doing. They didn't. >>
Go Dallas.....
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
If I had to chose to start a team with one of them....I take Joe D all day long
<< <i>...and coming in at #616 is Bill Ripken !!!!!!!!!!!! >>
I think this may be a little high. But just a little.
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
<< <i>Joe Dimaggio was better than Mickey Mantle.
If I had to chose to start a team with one of them....I take Joe D all day long >>
Joe had a much HOTTER looking wife. At least he "did" before she dropped him anyway
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<< <i>...and coming in at #616 is Bill Ripken !!!!!!!!!!!! >>
I think this may be a little high. But just a little.
Chris >>
It was higher but he is now #616 now as per my recent email stating Ben McDonald and Eric Anthony did something they should'nt of.
But it isn't simply a fascination with the old guys because, there are no 19th century players on the list. It is more ignorance, and a lack of understanding of what is creating the numbers they are falling in love with.
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<< <i>Joe Dimaggio was better than Mickey Mantle.
If I had to chose to start a team with one of them....I take Joe D all day long >>
Joe had a much HOTTER looking wife. At least he "did" before she dropped him anyway
Don't forget, Mickey had her too WHILE with Joe! Or so the story goes....
Not only that, Im sure Mickey had his way with a lot more beautiful women than Joe D could ever imagine!
Now, dont anyone get offended, it's all in jest! Though I would put Mantle on my team before Joe D.
I agree with many....and while Jeter should not be on that list now, he will by the time he retires.
I agree that Reggie is waaaaaaaay over rated.
Ryan was better than Maddux. Look who he played for! No wonder the guy lost so many games!
And yes, Tony Gwynn should be in the top 25.
<< <i>Ryan was better than Maddux. Look who he played for! No wonder the guy lost so many games! >>
For the record, Nolan Ryan is one of my favorite players of all time, and I would never make the foolish mistake of using a W/L record to determine how good a pitcher was. I agree that Nolan Ryan was a much better pitcher than his W/L record indicates.
But even given all that, Nolan Ryan was not NEARLY as good a pitcher as Greg Maddux. Maddux is a legitimate contender for the greatest pitcher of all-time and as much as I like Ryan, I can not see a way to get him close to the top 10. Ryan does not belong on this list; Maddux belongs near the top.
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
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<< <i>Ryan was better than Maddux. Look who he played for! No wonder the guy lost so many games! >>
For the record, Nolan Ryan is one of my favorite players of all time, and I would never make the foolish mistake of using a W/L record to determine how good a pitcher was. I agree that Nolan Ryan was a much better pitcher than his W/L record indicates.
But even given all that, Nolan Ryan was not NEARLY as good a pitcher as Greg Maddux. Maddux is a legitimate contender for the greatest pitcher of all-time and as much as I like Ryan, I can not see a way to get him close to the top 10. Ryan does not belong on this list; Maddux belongs near the top. >>
Just because I mention his W/L record, dont make the foolish assumption that is the only thing I was going by.
His lifetime home ERA is 2.77, his road ERA is 3.73.
His career winning percentage is actually pretty in line with his ERA vs. the league ERA. ERA+ was 112. Looking at how many runs he gave up over the average pitcher, I wouldn't expect his W/L record to be much different than it was. Without looking too deeply, his poor run support year of '87 looks to be balanced out with other seasons.
Ryan was always viewed as more of a high strikeout/high walk novelty in his day, and was nowhere near viewed in the same light as Seaver, Palmer, or Carlton. The 100 best has nothing to do with fame or all that other stuff...that is what the HOF is for. This is a pure best player list, and only pure contribution towards creating/preventing runs is what matters.
Oh, and Tony Gwynn is NOT the best hitter since Ted Williams...not even close. Nor is he underranked on that list...well at least compared to his nearby contemporaries. How he is rated ahead of Joe Morgan and Rickey Henderson is actually one of the biggest errors on that list. There are a bunch of others from around his era who are ranked well below him, who should be as close or higher.
Tony Gwynn saw a big benefit of the live ball era.
<< <i>He was one of the most dominant pitchers in the game and, as stated earlier, if he was ever on a decent team he could have had well over 400 wins by the time he retired.
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No, he struck out a lot of people; that's not the same thing as being "dominant". Ryan pitched about 20 full seasons - and it would have taken divine intervention for him to win 400 games; he was among the best 5 pitchers in the majors maybe 3 times, among the top 10 maybe another 3 times. He was never once the best pitcher. Maddux, on the other hand, was (so far) among the top 5 at least 10 times, among the top 10 another few times, and the absolute best pitcher in the major leagues 4 or 5 times.
Compared to an average pitcher, Ryan allowed 227 fewer runs over the course of his career; that's very, very good. Maddux (so far) has allowed 569 fewer runs than an average pitcher; that's dominant.
I grew up worshipping Nolan Ryan. I still consider him one of the classiest, most entertaining athletes of all time, and a bona fide Hall of Famer. But he is manifestly NOT one of the 100 greatest baseball players of all time; he's not really even close.
yankeeno7 - I didn't mean to assume that was the only thing you were considering, but it was the only thing you mentioned and I can't read minds. If there is a reasonable argument that Ryan was one of the 100 greatest players of all time I'd love to hear it - but nobody is even trying to make it. If there is no reasonable argument that he was better than Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Steve Carlton or Gaylord Perry - and there isn't - I can't even imagine what form such an argument would take - just how many pitchers from the 1970's are we supposed to believe are among the 100 greatest players who ever lived? No hitters are cool, no argument, but take those few games away and I think even TSN would have dropped Ryan off the list entirely; they'd probably replace him with Lefty O'Doul, but that's a different problem.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
You have a lot more time to research this stuff, but who do you put ahead of Gwynn in terms of pure hitting? This is after Ted Williams.
Curious minds want to know.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
Well, he ranks Gwynn behind Henderson and Morgan as hitters at least. I'm not sure about that, but I do believe that Morgan is the best hitting post-war secondbaseman in baseball, though.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.