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What To Do When You Can No Longer Afford The Kind of Stuff You Like To Collect?
MooseDog
Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭
CONUNDRUM noun
2a : a question or problem having only a conjectural answer
2b : an intricate and difficult problem
Been doing some soul-searching as I get ever closer to birthday #50 - still a couple of years away, but that's almost a 1/2 century to look back on.
I'd like to solicit some opinions here since the members of this board are well informed, highly opinionated, and come from a wide variety of backgrounds.
My conundrum is simply that I can not afford to collect the kind of stuff I enjoy collecting, and that is mainly vintage Hall of Fame autographs and documents, game used equipment (the real thing, not the pieces on cards), and vintage cards. Having been one of those people who took Robert Frost's advice and took the "road less taken" I have enjoyed a degree of independence that most people only dream about, which included owning a card shop for 4 years, but at the same time I have never been REALLY successful in any endeavor that I have undertaken, and missed out on every boom cycle in the past 30 years including stocks and real estate. So basically my only assets are some very high grade autographs, cards, and game used items.
I have sold a lot more than I have bought in the last 5-10 years. I see items on eBay or in the auction catalogs I like but the bidding gets out of my comfort zone very quickly. Yes, I'd like to have some of those Gehrig, Cobb, and Jackie Robinson signatures I sold over the years (usually to pay bills) and I still enjoy having my collection, but I don't have a den or office to display it properly. Then again, it's getting to the point where I have a few pieces of paper with someone's name on it that are worth a significant amount of money. I bought a HOF game used bat from a guy a few years ago for a good amount of money he said "...it's just a piece of wood. I have a son to take care of and could use the money more than the bat..."
That did get me thinking as I walked away with a very expensive piece of wood.
Currently, my "holdings" are doing better than any "safe" investment.
So let me hear some opinions. Since I'm "priced out of the game" in my preferred arena should I start selling out to the "big boys"? Should I hold? Or should I just run up the credit cards and have a good time?
2a : a question or problem having only a conjectural answer
2b : an intricate and difficult problem
Been doing some soul-searching as I get ever closer to birthday #50 - still a couple of years away, but that's almost a 1/2 century to look back on.
I'd like to solicit some opinions here since the members of this board are well informed, highly opinionated, and come from a wide variety of backgrounds.
My conundrum is simply that I can not afford to collect the kind of stuff I enjoy collecting, and that is mainly vintage Hall of Fame autographs and documents, game used equipment (the real thing, not the pieces on cards), and vintage cards. Having been one of those people who took Robert Frost's advice and took the "road less taken" I have enjoyed a degree of independence that most people only dream about, which included owning a card shop for 4 years, but at the same time I have never been REALLY successful in any endeavor that I have undertaken, and missed out on every boom cycle in the past 30 years including stocks and real estate. So basically my only assets are some very high grade autographs, cards, and game used items.
I have sold a lot more than I have bought in the last 5-10 years. I see items on eBay or in the auction catalogs I like but the bidding gets out of my comfort zone very quickly. Yes, I'd like to have some of those Gehrig, Cobb, and Jackie Robinson signatures I sold over the years (usually to pay bills) and I still enjoy having my collection, but I don't have a den or office to display it properly. Then again, it's getting to the point where I have a few pieces of paper with someone's name on it that are worth a significant amount of money. I bought a HOF game used bat from a guy a few years ago for a good amount of money he said "...it's just a piece of wood. I have a son to take care of and could use the money more than the bat..."
That did get me thinking as I walked away with a very expensive piece of wood.
Currently, my "holdings" are doing better than any "safe" investment.
So let me hear some opinions. Since I'm "priced out of the game" in my preferred arena should I start selling out to the "big boys"? Should I hold? Or should I just run up the credit cards and have a good time?
0
Comments
If there is a niche in the hobby in which you can play and be happy, try that out.
If you've tried the dealer thing in the past and it didn't work out well for you, perhaps your calling is elsewhere....
Why not sell some of your high $$$ items to fund a nice display area for what you have, then determine what more you can (or cannot) afford, and go from there. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have so many neat items but no money to display them anywhere. It definitely would make more sense to divest somewhat, invest in display, and see what joy you get out of your collection then.
I just run up the credit cards and have a good time?"
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Sell it all; as quickly as you can.
Once you have all that green staring you in the face, it will be easier to decide what you want to do.
But as everyone on the board will probably agree, don't use the hobby as an investment vehicle. If you need to invest in something, put it in a more traditional form of investment like stocks or bonds.
Justin
NAXCOM
Unless they are in bank vault or are heavily insured, you are really putting yourself a dangerous position by putting what is in effect your lifesavings in things that could be stolen or lost in a fire with no recourse. Rare collectibles typically do great in boom times and poorly when the economy goes down the toilet. My advice is to patiently sell to maximize your return and invest it something safe like diverse money market funds.
<< <i><<So basically my only assets are some very high grade autographs, cards, and game used items.>>
Unless they are in bank vault or are heavily insured, you are really putting yourself a dangerous position by putting what is in effect your lifesavings in things that could be stolen or lost in a fire with no recourse. Rare collectibles typically do great in boom times and poorly when the economy goes down the toilet. My advice is to patiently sell to get maximize your return and invest it something safe like diverse money market funds. >>
I would be lying if I said I was optimistic about the next 5 years in terms of collectibles....I know more seasoned collectors have heard it all before but
I doubt they have seen the levels of energy cost, immigration, outsourcing in the past.
Loves me some shiny!
<< <i><<So basically my only assets are some very high grade autographs, cards, and game used items.>>
Unless they are in bank vault or are heavily insured, you are really putting yourself a dangerous position by putting what is in effect your lifesavings in things that could be stolen or lost in a fire with no recourse. Rare collectibles typically do great in boom times and poorly when the economy goes down the toilet. My advice is to patiently sell to maximize your return and invest it something safe like diverse money market funds. >>
I agree with Dude. Even though my collection differs from yours (I have some Mantles I got in trade for sets back in the early 80s), I am having the same thoughts as you. And I have heard the same issue from another collector.
Best of luck with your decision.
I have been in this position for a few months now, I have sold off about 7k worth of hi end cards and bought about 2k worth of higher end cards. So you could always sell a few things and by one that you really want. I am desperately looking for a 1955 topps JAckie Robinson auto, if I find it, I realize I am going to have sell quite a few items, but I want what I want
<< <i>My conundrum is simply that I can not afford to collect the kind of stuff I enjoy collecting >>
Moose
Why or what is it about this kind of stuff that you enjoy?
What was or would be your goal with respect to this area?
HOF'er GU bats? HOF'er SS balls? Just curious.
mike
To mikeschmidt:
If you will only be happy in this hobby by essentially overspending and putting yourself in debt, than you probably ought to find something else.
That is definitely not going to be the case. I've been up and down financially enough through the years to know better than to go into debt for a hobby.
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have so many neat items but no money to display them anywhere.
It's not a matter of money more so than lack of space.
To Stingray:
If it means living in the street, sell it.
Definitely far from that happening, though at one time when one of my businesses failed, I was literally down to my last dollar. This is where the "collection as savings account" saved my a**. Maybe I wasn't too clear in my original post but my situation is that I have some debt load which is manageable, but it would be nice to eliminate it in a reasonably short amount of time.
To dude and Alfonz24:
Unless they are in bank vault or are heavily insured, you are really putting yourself a dangerous position by putting what is in effect your lifesavings in things that could be stolen or lost in a fire with no recourse. Rare collectibles typically do great in boom times and poorly when the economy goes down the toilet. My advice is to patiently sell to maximize your return and invest it something safe like diverse money market funds.
The loss angle has crossed my mind a few times. I have lost a few nice items in moves, either to damage or outright loss. Nothing really major but aggravating nonetheless. My thinking is currently along the lines expressed by the both of you is to patiently sell. I not in a huge hurry but it would be nice to lessen my debt load.
To MajorDanby et al:
in the end, there are many higher priorities than sports collectibles....just be thankful that you had the time and fun to collect what you have collected and that you have the ability to sell most of your items at market value.
This has been foremost in my mind - the stuff about priorities...honestly I have no idea how much my stuff is worth - I know it's not life changing huge $$$, but it is not insignificant either. I have had great fun over the years and met some really great guys in the hobby, most notably Dick Dobbins and Stan Marks to name two. I do remember when Dick sold his entire collection to I think it was Leland's for something like $250K. He said he was so relieved when the trucks pulled away.
Then again he was buying stuff from me a month or two later. Once a collector...
I am always in this situation. My collection is low end but nevertheless its $$. I have had to narrow down my collection. Selling off many FF items I cherish but had to sacrafice for what I thought was better.
That initial post makes me stare at myself in the mirror. I could've written that myself!!
I haven't bought a thing in some time, even sold off a part of my collection that meant a lot to me, because I knew I could never afford to finish it.
I've hit a bump in my collecting experience, and I guess I shouldn't be ashamed to say it's because of finances only. My extra money is just not there, and I obviously refuse to go in to debt for the enjoyment.
I just come here at this point to hang out with you guys.
Let me know if you find the answer to your question, I could use the help too.
shawn
<< <i>I just come here at this point to hang out with you guys. >>
Shawn
Well...I for one appreciate you dropping by!
If it is the chase you love, buy and flip. Challenge yourself with some goals (i.e. goal=turn $1,000 into $3,000 in 180 days), that allow you to acquire constantly.
If it is the ownership you love, and you regret selling pieces off, then consider buying BIG lots and/or entire collections and breaking them up profitably (and keeping an item or two for yourself for the effort).
Don't let prices keep you from your pursuit in either case. Definitely insure them though. Good luck.
Bosox1976
In my heart I am an accumulator and for many years accumulated a lot of stuff: sportscards, die cast cars including Hot Wheels and Matchboxes and larger scale Ertls, action figures, Legos, and various other odds and ends that seemed interesting at the time. Then I moved out of my mom's house and had to rent a box truck for everything. Then 9/11 happened and I walked out of my Center City Philadelphia apartment with nothing but a back pack that morning having no idea what would happen next. Then I moved again. Then I got engaged and moved everything into a storage unit until our townhouse was finished. And by that point I was sick of the stuff, boxes upon heavy boxes. And finally moved everything into the basement of the townhouse back in 2004.
I found myself opening random boxes and finding stuff that I didn't even know that I had, had forgotten where it had come from, what I had paid for it, and why I even had it. I watched people young and old die and what families had to deal with in the aftermath and couldn't imagine what the heck someone would think when they walked into this mess of a basement. If they could ever realize the unreasonable amount of time and money I had dumped into this stuff.
So I've developed the philosophy of consolidating the physical size and overall value of the collection. And more importantly I've tried to make it more of a collection and less of an accumulation. I have made it a point to like and appreciate what I have in the collection. I need to look at something and find an almost instant connection on some level, do I like this, does it look cool, will I regret buying it before I even get it in my hands?
To that end my collection is split between 80's and early 90's garbage, of players that used to be the kings of this hobby and bring back some fond memories for me. 1989 Donruss Sandy Alomar and Gary Sheffield and Hensley Meulens, Brien Taylor, 1987 Fleer Will Clark and Bo Jackson and Jose Canseco and all of these cards that were so inaccessable for me 20 years ago. They are almost all worthless duds now but they made it so much fun for me back then and like looking at them now. The flip side is the same situation that Moose is in, I like expensive things. So I have been constantly taking the funds from what I sell and consolidating them into premium items that I like. So far this year I have picked up either through an online auction or elsewhere autographs of Hornsby, Chuck Klein, and Mel Ott. I have a short list in my head of other similar cards and autographs that I want someday.
It has taken a long time and a lot of work for me to develop the patience and self-discipline to wait long periods between purchases and the drive to continue to sell off and consolidate but I am getting there slowly but surely. Come up with a plan of what you want out of all of this and what you are willing to do to get there. I know it's a hobby and the money I have into is separate from the other financial aspects of my life but I have invested enough time and money into this hobby that I feel compelled to get something out of it. I've lost a lot of money selling off stuff but I have a better looking collection for it.
Who else has a 1986 Donruss PSA 10 Jose Canseco RC and an autographed 1952 Topps Eddie Mathews RC in the same collection?
1) The really unusual old, rare stuff that I used to like to collect has gotten FAR out of my range of affordability.
2) One of my main collections was autographs, which used to be a fun pastime but the marketing of signatures now is totally out of hand. It used to be somewhat of a challenge to obtain some of those tough to get guys and a "badge of honor" if you will, to manage to get some guys. Now, basically anyone can be had for a price. Two other things - the proliferation of fakes, and the illegibility of many of the autographs themselves, simply suck a lot of the "fun" out of it.
3) The state of professional sports. Like it or not, the big money has changed the game(s) for the worse. I still enjoy sports, but I am not the big fan I was a decade or two ago and it's not just because I'm older, sports have less to do with sports and more with entertainment. Frankly the whole steroids thing doesn't bother me as much as, for example, Eric Chavez swinging at the first pitch in the bottom of the ninth with two on and one out and popping up, or knowing that the A's will keep winning but never make it to the World Series because they can't afford to pay the kind of guy who will carry the team on his back all the way (someone like Jeter, Pujols, Ortiz, etc). I am and always will be a fan of the A's, Sharks, and to some extent Raiders but less so of the players because you never know where they will be playing from year to year.
4) The state of the high end of the memorabilia market is maybe as good as it ever has been. I have a few pieces that would do quite well, I think. The time may be right to sell.
So, I am in the process of cataloging my entire collection and in all likelihood will soon offer most, if not everything that I have for sale. I am at the point in life where it would do me good to "lighten up" and I just need to decide on a selling strategy as I am currently at line 8500 on my spreadsheet and haven't gotten to the cards yet. I am also in a financial situation where lowering my debts would make my life much easier.
And it would be much better for some of this stuff to get into the hands of real collectors, rather than packed away in a closet.
Nice thread here and I feel your emotions in your messages. It sounds like you have one hell of a collection... If you get a chance, please post some pics or if no pics maybe list a few really cool things you cherish the most.
Thanks and good luck with everything!
-Danny
1) Read "Siddhartha", and recognize that any nod towards sentimentality corrupts your spiritual quest to merge with 'The Now' and ultimately ascend to nirvana.
2) Decide that heavy drinking is a lot more fun than collecting sports memorabilia, and probably less addicting.
It's the thrill of the chase indeed for me .
I've gone into some serious debt at times tying to get some of the stuff that " I just have to have " and I have never really looked at it as a way to get ahead financially , though I'm quite certain if I ever did sell I'd make a boatload.
It has crossed my mind to start all over . . .
Sell all the vintage stuff and concentrate on collecting the new stuff with my son, but I know in the back of my mind one day I'll say to myself . . .I used to have this or I used to have that and that pretty much stops me from thinking about selling .
The new stuff {This is just M/O } is just way over priced .
Some packs of baseball cards are in the hundreds of dollars .
An A-Rod signed baseball 3-4 hundred bucks and there is so much of it, I just don't understand the price justification .
On a deceased HOF'er I can understand the price , or on a hard to get signature .
So I have asked myself " Where does it end ?" " Does it end ?"
The pros and cons weigh heavy in both directions and I am always stuck in a pergatory type state at the end of the day .
Having rambled on I suppose if I didn't have a decent place to display my items that would make me happy , I would sell it all and most likely take up another hobby because for them to sit in boxes somewhere in my basement and risk being stolen or damaged in some way would be a complete sin across the entire spectrum even if they are insured , the money could never bring them back .
To me damaging or losing pieces like these would be borderline criminal .
I suppose if I were in your situation I would sell so these pieces could live on in someone elses collection to be shared with the world for ever and ever .
I would probably save only one or two pieces that I could just never part with .
I wish you the best in your decision
I know it means a lot to you
You don't go damn near 5 decades without building a serious love for it .
{ Anthony }
I wish I had that kind of stick to ittivness <~~ Is this a word ?
I have tried and tried that budget thing but always see something that I just can't let anyone else have .
I think at times it is a disease .
But it's fun .
It's not fun going into debt though as I'm sure lots of us do at times .
BTW how much are those two beautiful women on your sig ?
I want them at any price ! LOL
Sounds like you have some really unique items and I, for one, would love to see them.
Good luck
Thanks for your kind words and excellent post. I have done a lot of start/restarts over my years. Since you have a son that might be kind of cool to start over with him.
perkdog
<< <i> I am at the point now where I refuse to go into debt buying cards, >>
I want to emphasize that my debt is NOT collecting related. It is business related, some of which pertains to sports stuff bought for resale other which a couple of ventures that have not (yet) panned out. I do keep collection and resale assets separate when it comes to sports stuff but I haven't (at least in the recent past) went into debt to obtain something for my collection (though I did do so when I was younger and more impusive).
stown
<< <i>Sounds like you have some really unique items and I, for one, would love to see them. >>
I'd love to share. As I do my picture taking and scanning I'll post some here.
I have two kids going to college in the fall and have come to the conclusion that I too need to sell part of my collection to help pay for that. I have read othere threads about various auction houses and it seems the best ones are Mile High, Robert Eedwards and Andy Madec.
Joe
<< <i>Two possible suggestions.
1) Read "Siddhartha", and recognize that any nod towards sentimentality corrupts your spiritual quest to merge with 'The Now' and ultimately ascend to nirvana.
2) Decide that heavy drinking is a lot more fun than collecting sports memorabilia, and probably less addicting. >>
Boo -
Interesting that you should mention Siddhartha, and a well stated point, I might add! - I read Siddhartha when I was in Jr High School. It was in the library and for some reason I found myself strangely drawn to it, like the book was saying "read me, read me!". I did read it, and it was WAY over my head at the time, but over the course of my lifetime I found more and more meaning in subsequent readings. I even had a "Kamala" experience that helped open my eyes, set me straight and grow up. It remains one of my favorite works of literature. In the past decade or so I have become somewhat of a casual/semi-serious student of zen and currently enjoy reading the works of Alan Watts, a man who's thinking was way ahead of it's time.
So, yes there is the whole collecting vs. non-attachment paradox to deal with, but zen embraces that sort of thing.
I don't drink so #2 is not an option.
You have to determine how many items you want to have, and then make those items the best you can afford. I sell off the bottom half of my collection so that I can have an incredible top half.
IF that means that one day I will have a high grade PSA 1952 Topps Mantle and that is my ONLY card, I would be okay with that.
<< <i>What To Do When You Can No Longer Afford The Kind of Stuff You Like To Collect?
I am always in this situation. My collection is low end but nevertheless its $$. I have had to narrow down my collection. Selling off many FF items I cherish but had to sacrafice for what I thought was better. >>
what can be better than Billy ripken FF cards??>>