Can someone explain the difference between a Primary Player set and a Basic Player set?

JW

I might have missed the information on the new Primary Players sets and I was just curious. I can't seem to keep all of these sets straight.
Thanks,
Jason

AlanAllen

It looks like primary sets are what basic sets used to be: just mainstream base issue cards. What a cluster$*&^@. Was anyone screaming for a third kind of set?

Joe

mikeschmidt

PSA -- can you please institute a few more player set variations so that you kill the goose that laid the golden egg?

I am DISGUSTED

CON40

Marc;
The goose was killed some time ago. I think now it's being served for dinner.

This new permutation of player sets goes beyond redundancy. Whoever launched this spruce goose should be sacked. I hope the result is not more PSA submissions, but a revolt by all player collectors and all sets get pulled from the Registry. Then PSA *might* get a clue that listening to the customer is, once in a while, the best business decision for the bottom line.

Good luck to all you sheeple who flock to register your cards for these sets.

qmayer

Keith (and Marc),

I now share your disgust for how the registry is being run. At first, I thought just collecting the basic sets would be the least amount of headache, but there is no rhyme or reason to what cards they add or don't. And to get any issues resolved, it takes 6 months. On top of that, cards that are part of the set composition, they won't grade (1986 Topps Tattoo) or just slab "authentic" (1990 Topps doubleheader). Well of course its authentic, I pulled it out of a pack!

Justin

imafishinnut

The whole problem is that PSA is not willing to put clearly defined strict limits on the basic sets. They need to establish exactly which companies are eligible for a given year and stick to it. It needs to be consistent for ALL players and not just some. It is ridiculous that Sportflics, for example, are currently included in some basic sets while excluded from others. Yes, PSA may step on a few toes in the process of making this change; however, everyone will be happier in the long run as they will know exactly what their basic player set will compose.

I believe everyone is getting really upset because the compositions of the basic sets keeps changing from what was originally established. The primary set is evidently an attempt to get back to the original basic set concept; however, I noticed that the Cal Ripken Primary Set includes a Flair Showcase card. I think most would agree, even if you don't agree that another set needs to be added, that a Flair Showcase card doesn't belong in either the Primary Set or the Basic Set. However, again, it appears that PSA let the customer decide instead of putting their foot down.

IMO, the basic or primary set needs to be limited to the regular issues of the basic companies (Donruss, Fleer, Sportflics, Finest, Topps, etc.). Chrome, Regional, Showcase issues and the like shouldn't be included... No discs... No coins... Anything with a name following the main company should be excluded...

Mike

jackstraw

I have a Griffey Master set but even that is wasted? It has 2800 someodd cards with several being duplicates only because they were labeled diffrent. For example 90 Leaf Preview and then the 90 Leaf Promo? How about 90 Fleer League Leader Canadian and 90 Fleer League Leader? 90 Topps Glossy Rookies and 90 Topps Jumbo Glossy Rookies? The list is long. But the straw that broke this goose back is the hand cut cards! I can't see any rhyme or reason to having the black line that seperates two cards being there in order for it to be graded. I sent in for the last time a few Nolan Ryans that I either cut myself or bought cut with and without the black line and all were rejected again and again. The countless ME's coming from them is just a royal pain and having to have the card requested and waiting 9 months to get the eamil is a joke. If it says Nolan Ryan on the flip it should be an automatic slot . I will say my blood pressure is down since I stopped being mezmorized by the Player sets and just having a boat load of fun collecting raw and submitting a few tougher cards to SGC were they actually have it set up where you can collect and register your cards in chronological order plus you can collect duplicates and register them! Now thats an idea!

CON40

PSA simply does not have staff that is qualified and expert enough in card research to build complete accurate catalogs of every card issued for every player. When PSA opened the Master Sets to every card they grade of a certain player (thereby eliminating the valuable input of player collectors who know ALOT more about the player they collect than anyone at PSA ever will) Joe basically jumped off a cliff without a parachute. He's got Player Sets in free fall now, but the ground is coming up fast.

qmayer

Here's an idea. Maybe let the collectors put together a checklist themselves. Other members would be able to give it a "thumbs up" or modify it, much like a wiki. If the powers-that-be at PSA feel the set is established enough, they put their stamp of approval on it. If PSA has graded it 3 or so times (or any number TBD), the collector has the ability to add it to a set composition. Basically put the power in the user base that actually uses the Registry.

It seems to me that there isn't enough manpower at PSA to handle all the aspects of the Registry. They need to either get another person in there to handle all these issues or let the collectors set up and vote.

*shrug*

Justin

Edit: Keith touched on my point while I was typing...

jradke4

Its funny how they let some sets in and others they keep out.

I am a huge favre and packers fan. I am working on a set of auto'd cards of players that have caught TD passes from him. When I asked if I could have the set added, they said that since the cards are defined that they wouldnt take the set. It would take too much effort to load in unique cards. They said that if they got a software update they might be able to do this set in future.

Now there are a bunch of Packer fans that I am working with to put up a PAcker HOF set (this is the team HOF not the pro-HOF) of members of the packer HOF on their first packer card. Well they arent sure if they will add this set either since its not a pro-HOF type set, and since it might not always be rookie cards (for players that didnt start their career in Green Bay, ala Reggie White) then it doesnt fit the key card type set either. This really arose from discussions on adding players to the all time packer set which is up, but some of the people that have sets only think pro-HOF type players should be an all-time team specific set. This set would be quite fan friendly and directed more to packer fans.

Yet, they seem be have time to create 3 types of player sets for a given player, then add on the mega sets. All of these sets seem to be quite redundant. As everyone can use the same card in each set.

I dont get it.

jackstraw

Whats the sense of having say a 92 MooTown Snacker with tab if I have to wait for 3 more collectors to submit one? I can see the 1 of 1 newer issues but there are so many tougher issues that alot of guys that just go and pick stuff off on Ebay as they come up and add them don't seem to care about or collect. I am not saying one way is right or wrong just saying it shouldn't have to have 3 examples graded for it to be included in the master set. I can hear all the "have you seen the collectors showcase" yet? Yup once and I think I got a headache and never went again just a waste of web space in my eyes.

CON40

Remember Justin, your method is not unlike what a dozen of us did with the Nolan Ryan Master Set. We, as the collectors, united, worked together, voted on, and presented PSA with a 1000+ card checklist for Nolan Ryan. Joe agreed to use our model and to put new additions to a vote. That utopia lasted for about a year before Joe decreed that what we wanted didn't matter. What mattered was including every card (including the asinine decision to force us to add team cards, multiple versions of hand-cut cards, and even a checklist card) because that we theoretically drive in more submissions.

I could actually have lived with that if it was thought out, researched, and presented as a final decision. When Joe starts backpedaling on that edict and removes cards previously accepted (1979 Topps Comic, 1994 UD Heroes, 1994 Topps Promos, etc) then it gets really frustrating for the collector because it prevents us from having the ability to focus on what we can include in the set. It also puts more emphasis on shit issues like Pacifics and Stars and decreases the importance (and collectible value) of cards like 1970 Transogram, 1984 Nestlé, 1981 Permagraphics, and on the list goes with the arbitrary decisions they make on "slab acceptance".

Overall, there is a lack of vision among management at PSA. I get the sense that individual graders are left to decide on an ad-hoc basis whether a card can be slabbed or not, and then even when it is slabbed, another ad-hoc decision is made among the Registry group as the whether that card should be eligible for a Player Set. Why? If Joe decreed that ALL cards that PSA will slab of a player are eligible for inclusion in a set, how can it then be excluded or removed?

CON40

Jon, by the way, I have a Moo Town Ryan with the tab that's graded a PSA 9. It was the first one they graded and it is not labeled "with tab" on the slab. This is likely because the fool that graded it had no idea that you could perforate the tab and remove it and that the majority of these were collected without the tabs.

qmayer

Keith,

I remember helping out with that and that's what gave me the idea. The difference between that and the idea I posted previously was that my method would take out the middleman (PSA) in deciding what gets chosen for sets and what doesn't. The collector's have the ultimate choice -- as it should be. If the majority of the Nolan Ryan collectors don't want Pacifics, then their voting (read: "wiki"-type editing) power will prevent them from being included in the "Master" set.

Sure, you'll probably get a lot of random sets created by a bunch of crazies, but more often than not you'll probably find another collector who takes an interest to it.

Justin

Alfiewt

I really like that PSA has now started the Primary sets. I think is a direct response to collectors who complained about all of the additions to the basic sets. I don't mind the redundancy of the sets at all. It gives collectors more options and that is a good thing. I would actually like to see more types of player sets, and a redesign of the registry to have a page that has all the set of a player for players with lots of sets. This page would also list all of the sets devoted to a certain player, not just player sets, but rookie sets and sets issued by manufacturers like 1959 Fleer Ted Williams, 1996 Topps/Finest Mickey Mantle, 1986 Star 86 Rod Carew, etc. They could even include sets for autographs and tickets. I’m glad PSA listened to collectors and brought back the original concept of the basic sets.

For those who don’t know the difference between the different player sets, the different player sets are:

Primary sets: Only the most popularly issued manufacturers from a players playing years - closed from further additions

Basic sets: Any base card from any set issued during a players playing years – base set cards not included in the composition need to be requested

Master sets: Any card issued during the players paying days that PSA grades - cards not included in the composition need to be requested, cards with less than 3 graded examples will be listed a optional until at least 3 examples are graded.

MeteoriteGuy

I also like the new tier. I am suprized about the complaints because they just made the "basic" set that many of you seem to be wanting. I would however like to see a another tier. "Supreme" or something like that which would include any card of the player that PSA grades. Half of my Steve Young cards I have in PSA I will not be able to put in any registry, which makes little sense to me. Perhaps in the later, where you could add 1 of 1's, all cards could be weighed at 1.

Mark

jimtb

PSA has driven away many player collectors like me with their total lack of underststanding of what drives player collectors. instead of fixing it and restricting the basic sets, they add another tier to furthur dilute the process?

JW

Alfiewt,
Where is the Primary Player Sets explained? You seemed to have a definition for it. It does seem the Primary set is another attempt at what the Basic set started out as. Also don't forget the Rookie and the Topps only sets to go along with the Primary, Basic and Master Player sets. What is to prevent additional additions to the Primary set? Who decides what a popular card is? That seems to be the only thing separating a Primary set from a Basic set in your definition. I just have to admit I can not keep them all straight.
Thanks,
Jason

sixdart

Primary Player Sets (Modern Players Only):

Primary player sets are for modern players and contain only the most popularly issued manufacturers (similar to the basic vintage sets). These sets are closed from further additions (except for current year if the player is still active) and contain a specific list of cards. For a complete list, please email setregistry@collectors.com.

BugOnTheRug

I disagree.

Primary sets are for those who have no or a very small pic in their sig line. Basic sets are for those who have larger than allowed pics in their sig lines. Look for these Basic sets to be deleted very soon. These sets know who they are.

ArmourGuy

I fully agree. The master set should include everything and the basic set should just be the main line national releases. Being a purest I personally wuld keep the basic sets to Bowman, topps, fleer and donruss....period...

I recently wanted to start a Bull Luzinski set. There is no Master set. Here is the basic set list:

1971 TOPPS LUZINSKI/REID PHILLIE ROOKIES
1972 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI
1973 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI
1973 TOPPS CANDY LIDS GREG LUZINSKI
1974 KELLOGG'S GREG LUZINSKI
1974 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI
1974 TOPPS DECKLE EDGE GREG LUZINSKI
1975 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI
1976 HOSTESS GREG LUZINSKI HAND CUT
1976 KELLOGG'S GREG LUZINSKI
1976 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI
1977 KELLOGG'S GREG LUZINSKI
1977 O-PEE-CHEE GREG LUZINSKI 1
1977 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI 2
1978 HOSTESS GREG LUZINSKI HAND CUT 1
1978 KELLOGG'S GREG LUZINSKI 1
1978 O-PEE-CHEE GREG LUZINSKI 2
1978 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI 2
1979 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI 1
1980 O-PEE-CHEE GREG LUZINSKI 1
1980 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI 1
1981 DONRUSS GREG LUZINSKI 1
1981 FLEER GREG LUZINSKI 1
1981 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI 1
1981 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI SCRATCH-OFFS 1
1981 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI 2
1983 DONRUSS GREG LUZINSKI 1
1983 FLEER GREG LUZINSKI 1
1984 DONRUSS GREG LUZINSKI 1
1984 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI 1
1985 TOPPS GREG LUZINSKI

who in the worl let in candy lids, kelloggs, hostess and random years of o-pee-che ??? Obviously these were just the cards that some guy had and he petitiond to have them included and they were !!

Alfiewt

JW,

The different player set types are explained on the set request page here.

The primary sets are set, so additional cards will not be added to them.

For those who don't know the history of the player sets:

Originally, PSA did not have basic and master sets for players, just a single set what was termed the “player set”. Player sets were like the original basic sets but included some additional popular cards like 1993 Finest refractors, All-Star cards, Topps Tiffany, and minor league cards. Some collectors wanted these sets expanded to include all cards of a player, but other collectors wanted a fixed set for players. In response, PSA decided to make two sets for each player. One set would be a master set with any card of a player from his playing days eligible. Because it would be too difficult to make a complete checklist of every player, the master sets would be a work in progress. Cards would not be added until PSA graded an example. The other set, the basic set, would include only base cards of the regular issue sets, and would be a fixed set.

The basic set compositions were submitted by collectors and approved by Joe Orlando. Many of the cards in some of the modern basic sets had not yet been graded by PSA yet but were allowed to be included in the basic sets from the beginning. When PSA updated the registry to link the population report to the registry, only cards that PSA had graded could be included in the basic sets. Cards that PSA had not yet graded would have to wait to be added until PSA graded an example. Thus, the basic sets became a work in process. After PSA made the basic sets a work in progress, the original concept of the basic set began to change because some collectors didn’t understand the concept of the basic set or just didn’t care.

The people handling the card requests at PSA are not card experts and had to rely on the collectors to determine what the regular issue sets were. They soon started to use the Beckett online checklists to determine what was eligible for the basic sets. The problem is that the Beckett online checklists only distinguished between base sets, parallel sets and insert sets. It did not distinguish between regular issue sets and oddball sets, and
soon collectors started submitting oddball cards to be included in the basic sets. I think most collectors wanted the basic sets to only include regular issue cards, but some collectors started to submit oddball cards that they had in order to increase their rankings in the basic sets.

The new Primary sets are what the original basic sets were. I really don’t think the sets that the basic sets have become are needed, but if some collectors want them, I don’t mind them. Many of the player basic sets have been kept “pure” and actually are just like the new Primary sets. I suppose that many of these will just have their name changed to Primary set. I think the current Don Mattingly basic set will eventually become the Primary set. The original Don Mattingly basic was actually a fixed set and included many cards that PSA had not yet graded. When PSA started linking the pop report, I had to resubmit the Don Mattingly basic set from a list of cards that PSA had graded. The current Don Mattingly basic set is still missing some of the cards that were in the original Don Mattingly basic set because they have not been graded, or an example has only recently been graded.