Leasing etc....Show us the PROOF!!!!!!
clevegreg
Posts: 909 ✭
Steve, Mitch, HD. I have followed this thread tonight, and must admit that I am still shaking my head.
Mitch, I really feel that you handled this in an unfortunate manner that has caused alot of unnecessary angst among the user community. You bring up an issue that you make a big commotion over, yet fail to produce any evidence that it is actually happening. It seems to me that the folks who have the highest ranked sets all have the credibility, financial wherewithal and numismatic knowledge that it is unlikely that they are participating in any such scheme that you have outlined. If in fact you have knowledge and proof of any such activity, I call upon you to reveal it. In other words put up or shut up.
The innuendo you have spread on the board this evening will cause some members to begin questioning other members of the board Vis a Vis their registry sets. I think that sucks! Like I said before, if you have proof of this activity tell us about it.
The whole concept of coin collecting should be based upon fun, and the love of the treasures we are able to caretake for the time we have here. The Registry Set process can be fun, yet competitive too. If there are cheaters who are registering paper sets, or enhancing their sets artificially who really cares? When it comes time to sell the set, or bring it to your local coin club or show, they will have nothing to bring. I really feel if this is occurring, it is a short-term issue that will resolve itself over time. These same people, if they exist, are similar to the trolls and flamers we see here frequently. Managing a good registry set requires alot of time and effort, and I am sure such people will tire of the effort.
Since you are one of the most frequent posters here for Registry quality coins, and a Dealer from whom I have purchased coins in the past, I wonder how much of this has to do with money. Do you feel that your sales are down because there is a conspiracy to manipulate or fake Registry coins? Or are you trying to develop a new marketing concept for those who would like to buy your coins but can't swing it financially.? After all, both you and Steve have mentioned that you "discussed" this concept years ago.
Bottom line, I have enjoyed my relationship with all of you here on the boards over the years. If you have PROOF Mitch, Steve or HD, that any of this is actually occurring let us know. Or drop me a PM and I will keep it private if you wish.
Greg
Mitch, I really feel that you handled this in an unfortunate manner that has caused alot of unnecessary angst among the user community. You bring up an issue that you make a big commotion over, yet fail to produce any evidence that it is actually happening. It seems to me that the folks who have the highest ranked sets all have the credibility, financial wherewithal and numismatic knowledge that it is unlikely that they are participating in any such scheme that you have outlined. If in fact you have knowledge and proof of any such activity, I call upon you to reveal it. In other words put up or shut up.
The innuendo you have spread on the board this evening will cause some members to begin questioning other members of the board Vis a Vis their registry sets. I think that sucks! Like I said before, if you have proof of this activity tell us about it.
The whole concept of coin collecting should be based upon fun, and the love of the treasures we are able to caretake for the time we have here. The Registry Set process can be fun, yet competitive too. If there are cheaters who are registering paper sets, or enhancing their sets artificially who really cares? When it comes time to sell the set, or bring it to your local coin club or show, they will have nothing to bring. I really feel if this is occurring, it is a short-term issue that will resolve itself over time. These same people, if they exist, are similar to the trolls and flamers we see here frequently. Managing a good registry set requires alot of time and effort, and I am sure such people will tire of the effort.
Since you are one of the most frequent posters here for Registry quality coins, and a Dealer from whom I have purchased coins in the past, I wonder how much of this has to do with money. Do you feel that your sales are down because there is a conspiracy to manipulate or fake Registry coins? Or are you trying to develop a new marketing concept for those who would like to buy your coins but can't swing it financially.? After all, both you and Steve have mentioned that you "discussed" this concept years ago.
Bottom line, I have enjoyed my relationship with all of you here on the boards over the years. If you have PROOF Mitch, Steve or HD, that any of this is actually occurring let us know. Or drop me a PM and I will keep it private if you wish.
Greg
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Comments
Number one, based upon my experience with PCGS, there are very few "lock" anythings. Perhaps with the contacts that you and Mitch have with the graders you could "walk the coin through" and make sure it comes back as a 68.
Number two, if that is what you decide to do, then you are a scumbag, and I know that is not true, so you are essentially asking a rhetorical question.
Lastly, if that is what someone wants to do, the long-term implications for the person who has a bunch or certification numbers but no coins doesn't really concern me. I can pull my coins out of the safety deposit box, share them with friends and family and know all of the hard work and determination, not to speak of money, it took to accomplish. The cheater can only look at their fake numbers in a set.
Greg
Greg
Steve asks "What stops me (or anyone) from cracking out one of my lock ms68s, keeping the cert. number label, getting it back in a new holder, selling the coin, and keep the original cert # in my registry?" Isn’t the answer, fortunately or unfortunately: “nothing?” Steve, if you could duplicate the coin as well as the certification, then we would have a real problem.
So let me ask a couple of other questions: One, does anyone know any coin (slab) collector who would do this? I hope the list is not too long! If any, explain please why they would do this. Two, “Is the hobby really affected by this POSSIBILITY in any significant way?” I don’t think so.
Now, here is another way of addressing these questions:
Assume that I have what would be, if I listed it, the number #1 ranked set for Washington Statehood Quarters, Circulation Strikes (1999-2001). I choose not to list it for a variety of personal reasons, some of which are generic and some of which are truly personal.
However, I am willing to loan or lease you (whoever you are) the cert numbers so you can list it, in your name, and be number 1. Or, if you want, I will even list it for you under your name. I think I can learn how to do that, though sometimes I have trouble even posting a message.
The term of the lease is 1 year. You do NOT get possession of the coins. I guarantee that you will be number 1 for the year, or the lease is terminated and you get your money back in full. There could be a penalty clause, but that would affect my price. I would consider giving an option for a second year for an additional fee. Also, I would consider giving an option for you to buy the set at the end of the year (for an very high price – so don’t count on that). Any other terms or conditions would be entertained.
Now, I have thought about this pretty hard and don’t see anything unethical or immoral about my side of the deal. It’s not like selling drugs or pimping. If someone out there will get his or her pleasure out of having the number #1 state quarter set for a year, I will give them that pleasure – for a price which will defer my costs in having built that set. Isn’t it like paying to have your name in lights on Broadway, or paying to have a stadium named after you?
Any thoughts?
If someone wants to take the time to market their insert(s) and then another "collector" is willing to pay for the rights to that insert, who cares?
The coin can only be registered ONCE- who really cares who is the one with it registered?
I'm sure someone can refine this more
My Merc Dimes