<< <i><< Arthur may have not been what you all thought....Kudos for CU for Policing these boards better! >>
TO sum up what happened in a nutshell is
Arthur had questions about psa dealings with memory lane ,psa chose not not to respond, Arthur pushed for a answer psa pushed back by banning him.
Was Arthur wrong for wanting his questions answered ? NO
WAS PSA WRONG FOR BANNING HIM? WELL THEY OWN THE BOARD and have the right to do as they see fit
Why would psa not respond to the question ? That only they can answer ?????????????????????????????????? >>
Not saying Arthur was wrong but asking a publically traded company to respond to conspiracy theories is silly IMO.
Of course, this only throws fire onto the conspiracy.
Responding to conspiracies, which originated on a forum who promotes their competition, is really, really, really low on their to-do list.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Whatever else was said or done , nothing can still take away from the fact that the guy is obviously a very generous person . I have talked to him once or twice since joining here , seemed like a stand up guy to me FWIW . I remeber that thread and replied to it as well , Thankfully they did not ban me as well , I had no idea who the owners of this Forum were . I had no idea one could be banned from here for comments such as those but . . . . I still have a lot to learn . This is a great place to get other opinions , but it makes me sad that he is gone honestly .
If an auction house wants to get an item reslabbed by PSA, there is no reason to even question PSA about any conspiracy. I wanted to know the answer, if those pretty scarce cards were the same ones in a different slab, and if so why?
The fact that Arthur was able to do the detective work, was cool. I thought this to be an important topic, and it went unswered. To make things worse, CU mods took down Arthur's thread twice. Then "bammed" him? Yikes!
Maybe they thought (mods) they were protecting an advertiser? I do not really know why they did it (deleting his threads, then bamming Arthur)?
In my opinion, the CU mods did make a mistake here by taking down those threads. PSA has a fiduciary responsibility in their grading process. And the participants on these threads, well, ...we are "a slice of their business", with many here spending years participating in the buying, selling, submitting, set registry building, with most recommending PSA "hands down" over the other grading services, plus the "self-promoting aspects" of these boards, should not be underestimated.
If those cards were indeed "reslabbed" (& submitted by the "u know who" auction house), then everyone here is entitled to honest answers. Like I said, PSA was only the grading service, if those auction items were indeed, re-slabbed.
These boards may not be a Democracy, but the when threads are "threaded" like Arthur's thread was, it took IMO, a "valid topic and valid unanswered questions", that may have involved PSA re-graded/and or re-submitted material.
Not only did Arthur's questions go unanswered, but it seems a valid topic cannot really be discussed here because the fear of being "bammed"! Why? Because those "vaild unanswered questions", involved an advertisor?
Now, in fairness to the moderators here, there are plenty of postings that could easily get "threaded", but go untouched.
<< <i>If an auction house wants to get an item reslabbed by PSA, there is no reason to even question PSA about any conspiracy. I wanted to know the answer, if those pretty scarce cards were the same ones in a different slab, and if so why?
The fact that Arthur was able to do the detective work, was cool. I thought this to be an important topic, and it went unswered. To make things worse, CU mods took down Arthur's thread twice. Then "bammed" him? Yikes!
Maybe they thought (mods) they were protecting an advertiser? I do not really know why they did it (deleting his threads, then bamming Arthur)?
In my opinion, the CU mods did make a mistake here by taking down those threads. PSA has a fiduciary responsibility in their grading process. And the participants on these threads, well, ...we are "a slice of their business", with many here spending years participating in the buying, selling, submitting, set registry building, with most recommending PSA "hands down" over the other grading services, plus the "self-promoting aspects" of these boards, should not be underestimated.
If those cards were indeed "reslabbed" (& submitted by the "u know who" auction house), then everyone here is entitled to honest answers. Like I said, PSA was only the grading service, if those auction items were indeed, re-slabbed.
These boards may not be a Democracy, but the when threads are "threaded" like Arthur's thread was, it took IMO, a "valid topic and valid unanswered questions", that may have involved PSA re-graded/and or re-submitted material.
Not only did Arthur's questions go unanswered, but it seems a valid topic cannot really be discussed here because the fear of being "bammed"! Why? Because those "vaild unanswered questions", involved an advertisor?
Now, in fairness to the moderators here, there are plenty of postings that could easily get "threaded", but go untouched.
Yet, IMO, the mods got this one WRONG!
Chow Arthur!
rd >>
Well said. It's one thing to raise valid questions like Arthur did, that go unanswered. It's another thing to ban a great contributor for raising these questions. I really wish CU would re-consider and reinstate Arthur. He was a valued poster on these boards.
After all these years of lurking here on the psa boards and then finally joining in a few month's ago, it really has me questioning the reason I even bother reading and posting on these threads at all. If legimate hobby questions cannot be discussed here, why are any of us even here? Is the only reason we post here, is to see someone's latest subs? Or is it to discuss the hobby and the events within the hobby which includes psa grading, the registry, auctions, general collecting issues, etc..... ?
I can fully understand PSA not wanting any slanderous postings from occurring but by banning a great contributor only adds fuel to the fire about what his post contained and the questionable nature of what may go on from behind the scenes.
This kind of thing really makes me think long and hard about going back to collecting only raw cards and liquidating my graded cards.
Most of us here are all supporters of grading and PSA. Why would the CU moderators want to make a few of us want to give up collecting graded cards? It can only hurt the card hobby in the long run.
Arthur is a fine fellow. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he accepted that the consequences would be certain. As time passes, I hope Arthur returns, too.
That said, there are other considerations:
1. As we all know, everyone here is a guest of CLCT's shareholders; they pay for these boards. CLCT's rules ARE the rules.
2. The other site allows PSA-bashing postings from the surrogates of the other grading company. That grading company is part of the group that many observers would say has built each of its parts by bashing and defaming other companies; their actual merits are virtually nil, but their ability to bash competitors and hype their own junk products is almost unsurpassed.
3. Try bashing that other grading company on that other site, and see how long you last. Their resident bashers routinely post personal information about any poster who dares to disagree with their propaganda machine. That board's owner can deal harshly with folks who disagree with the party-line; he has an absolute right to do that because it is his board.
4. If CLCT wasted its time responding to the lies and defamations that the surrogates of the other group of grading companies continually spread, CLCT would have little time for any other endeavor. The "incident" that was exploited by the PSA-bashers on the other site, amounted to NOTHING. It was simply used by the bashers in their LONG ongoing attempts to boost/revive a product that the market knows is, at best, second-best.
5. It should be noted that we almost never see any of CLCT's major players bashing the other gang. That other gang's entire marketing campaign - in cards/coins/currency - seems to be built on nothing but bashing of the competition by their surrogates. When your products are junk, all you can do is rely on defamation; and hope to instill doubt and fear among a consumer-base that is usually willing to believe the worst.
storm
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Arthur is a fine fellow. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he accepted that the consequences would be certain. As time passes, I hope Arthur returns, too.
You can PM me also for his email address - I can tell ya that he misses you guys.
mike >>
Mike,
I've been stocking up on Greenwells (more "Mikes"!!) for Arthur. I was waiting to hear from him about a card ('91 SI For Kids?) and now have some more ('88 Leaf, '87 Topps hardback sticker, et al).
Could you please pass along my email address to him? Oops, I don't want to post it here, so I'll PM it to you.
<< <i>One thing that's been brewing for some time now...
And this is not a shot on PSA or any other grading company - but it's "pushed" my interests into other areas of collecting other than sports cards.
mike >>
I've "branched out" into other areas, too, Miguel. Can you say "postcards"?! I've enjoyed that thread with Tom, Arthur, 2dueces and others.
Are you still on the market for games? I see them occasionally at antique stores and often wonder if you would want them. If so, let me know if you have a want list or an inventory of what you already have!
All categories of collectibles that involve TPGs have issues that are identical to the instant one. The companies connected to the "collectors society" all seem to rely on bashing to promote their services.
The cards/coins/currency parts of CLCT are all constantly - and wrongfully - defamed by the other guys' surrogates.
MANY collectors now know the truth about the coin product offered by the other guys; folks are starting to catch onto the facts about the currency product.
Any outfit that must rely on defaming their competitors' products, is not one that most folks want to deal with.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Arthur is a fine fellow. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he accepted that the consequences would be certain. As time passes, I hope Arthur returns, too.
That said, there are other considerations:
1. As we all know, everyone here is a guest of CLCT's shareholders; they pay for these boards. CLCT's rules ARE the rules.
2. The other site allows PSA-bashing postings from the surrogates of the other grading company. That grading company is part of the group that many observers would say has built each of its parts by bashing and defaming other companies; their actual merits are virtually nil, but their ability to bash competitors and hype their own junk products is almost unsurpassed.
3. Try bashing that other grading company on that other site, and see how long you last. Their resident bashers routinely post personal information about any poster who dares to disagree with their propaganda machine. That board's owner can deal harshly with folks who disagree with the party-line; he has an absolute right to do that because it is his board.
4. If CLCT wasted its time responding to the lies and defamations that the surrogates of the other group of grading companies continually spread, CLCT would have little time for any other endeavor. The "incident" that was expolited by the PSA-bashers on the other site, amounted to NOTHING. It was simply used by the bashers in their LONG ongoing attempts to boost/revive a product that the market knows is, at best, second-best.
5. It should be noted that we almost never see any of CLCT's major players bashing the other gang. That other gang's entire marketing campaign - in cards/coins/currency - seems to be built on nothing but bashing of the competition by their surrogates. When your products are junk, all you can do is rely on defamation; and hope to instill doubt and fear among a consumer-base that is usually willing to believe the worst.
storm >>
Well said and worth repeating
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Arthur appeared to me to be a kind collector full of knowledge and the board will miss him. He also seemed quite aware of where he was taking that thread. However, I do think that calling this a conspiracy is a little over the top. Any of us can send a card in to get re-slabbed, this is not a reason to make a press statement or the like. A third party grader, should be just that, a third party grader. What I do with my cards should not be the third parties concern. Now having said that, the auction house could have been more forthcoming in information early on. When an auction house may gross several million every few months, there is a need for transparency.
I collect cards as a fun hobby, not to look for reasons to complain, which appears to be half of the collectors motivation.
I also think PSA has reacted the same way any other company would. No company would put time, energy and money into something, like these boards, to create an avenue bash themselves. Yet, PSA does let you bash them around a little bit. How many threads have you seem with people complaining about the grade they got? Or something like I sent this in three times and it came back evidence of trim? (The later by the way sounds like they are doing their job quite well). Few companies would allow you to do this.
Okay, I put on my catchers uniform….so I am ready to take a little bashing myself, Mark
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Comments
fandango's statement said much more about him than about Arthur.
Collectable
<< <i>Arthur may have not been what you all thought....Kudos for CU for Policing these boards better! >>
Wow. That's just incredibly lame. Please tell me that it's just a failed attempt at sarcastic humor.
<< <i>No one on here may be who we thought they were. I know I am not >>
i thought you was but i wasnt sure..
<< <i>
<< <i>No one on here may be who we thought they were. I know I am not >>
i thought you was but i wasnt sure.. >>
The only thing I know for sure is that I am not Kobe
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
<< <i>Arthur may have not been what you all thought! >>
I always found Arthur to be friendly and honest. If you are telling me he is even better than that, I will certainly agree.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No one on here may be who we thought they were. I know I am not >>
i thought you was but i wasnt sure.. >>
The only thing I know for sure is that I am not Kobe >>
are you sure you're not just one of kobe's alts? im not sure im not anymore, but maybe you are too..
TO sum up what happened in a nutshell is
Arthur had questions about psa dealings with memory lane ,psa chose not not to respond, Arthur pushed for a answer psa pushed back by banning him.
Was Arthur wrong for wanting his questions answered ? NO
WAS PSA WRONG FOR BANNING HIM? WELL THEY OWN THE BOARD and have the right to do as they see fit
Why would psa not respond to the question ? That only they can answer ??????????????????????????????????
<< <i><< Arthur may have not been what you all thought....Kudos for CU for Policing these boards better! >>
TO sum up what happened in a nutshell is
Arthur had questions about psa dealings with memory lane ,psa chose not not to respond, Arthur pushed for a answer psa pushed back by banning him.
Was Arthur wrong for wanting his questions answered ? NO
WAS PSA WRONG FOR BANNING HIM? WELL THEY OWN THE BOARD and have the right to do as they see fit
Why would psa not respond to the question ? That only they can answer ?????????????????????????????????? >>
Not saying Arthur was wrong but asking a publically traded company to respond to conspiracy theories is silly IMO.
Of course, this only throws fire onto the conspiracy.
Responding to conspiracies, which originated on a forum who promotes their competition, is really, really, really low on their to-do list.
<< <i>No one on here may be who we thought they were. I know I am not >>
This is true!
When I asked about you - people told me you haven't been seen since Nam?
competition, is really, really, really low on their to-do list. "
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
BINGO !!!
and,
POOF !
<< <i>
<< <i>Arthur may have not been what you all thought....Kudos for CU for Policing these boards better! >>
Wow. That's just incredibly lame. Please tell me that it's just a failed attempt at sarcastic humor. >>
yes, it was Imus like bad humor, im sorry
I have talked to him once or twice since joining here , seemed like a stand up guy to me FWIW .
I remeber that thread and replied to it as well , Thankfully they did not ban me as well , I had no idea who the owners of this Forum were .
I had no idea one could be banned from here for comments such as those but . . . . I still have a lot to learn .
This is a great place to get other opinions , but it makes me sad that he is gone honestly .
If an auction house wants to get an item reslabbed by PSA, there is no reason to even question PSA about any conspiracy. I wanted to know the answer, if those pretty scarce cards were the same ones in a different slab, and if so why?
The fact that Arthur was able to do the detective work, was cool. I thought this to be an important topic, and it went unswered. To make things worse, CU mods took down Arthur's thread twice. Then "bammed" him?
Maybe they thought (mods) they were protecting an advertiser? I do not really know why they did it (deleting his threads, then bamming Arthur)?
In my opinion, the CU mods did make a mistake here by taking down those threads. PSA has a fiduciary responsibility in their grading process. And the participants on these threads, well, ...we are "a slice of their business", with many here spending years participating in the buying, selling, submitting, set registry building, with most recommending PSA "hands down" over the other grading services, plus the "self-promoting aspects" of these boards, should not be underestimated.
If those cards were indeed "reslabbed" (& submitted by the "u know who" auction house), then everyone here is entitled to honest answers. Like I said, PSA was only the grading service, if those auction items were indeed, re-slabbed.
These boards may not be a Democracy, but the when threads are "threaded" like Arthur's thread was, it took IMO, a "valid topic and valid unanswered questions", that may have involved PSA re-graded/and or re-submitted material.
Not only did Arthur's questions go unanswered, but it seems a valid topic cannot really be discussed here because the fear of being "bammed"! Why? Because those "vaild unanswered questions", involved an advertisor?
Now, in fairness to the moderators here, there are plenty of postings that could easily get "threaded", but go untouched.
Yet, IMO, the mods got this one WRONG!
Sorry to see u go Arthur!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
Well said except the chow part.
////////////////////////////////
That is sort of like food?
ciao
Yupp . . . by Purina .
I know , cause my dog eats that stuff .
Ciao ?
Mi dispiace , non parlo Italiano
<< <i>If an auction house wants to get an item reslabbed by PSA, there is no reason to even question PSA about any conspiracy. I wanted to know the answer, if those pretty scarce cards were the same ones in a different slab, and if so why?
The fact that Arthur was able to do the detective work, was cool. I thought this to be an important topic, and it went unswered. To make things worse, CU mods took down Arthur's thread twice. Then "bammed" him?
Maybe they thought (mods) they were protecting an advertiser? I do not really know why they did it (deleting his threads, then bamming Arthur)?
In my opinion, the CU mods did make a mistake here by taking down those threads. PSA has a fiduciary responsibility in their grading process. And the participants on these threads, well, ...we are "a slice of their business", with many here spending years participating in the buying, selling, submitting, set registry building, with most recommending PSA "hands down" over the other grading services, plus the "self-promoting aspects" of these boards, should not be underestimated.
If those cards were indeed "reslabbed" (& submitted by the "u know who" auction house), then everyone here is entitled to honest answers. Like I said, PSA was only the grading service, if those auction items were indeed, re-slabbed.
These boards may not be a Democracy, but the when threads are "threaded" like Arthur's thread was, it took IMO, a "valid topic and valid unanswered questions", that may have involved PSA re-graded/and or re-submitted material.
Not only did Arthur's questions go unanswered, but it seems a valid topic cannot really be discussed here because the fear of being "bammed"! Why? Because those "vaild unanswered questions", involved an advertisor?
Now, in fairness to the moderators here, there are plenty of postings that could easily get "threaded", but go untouched.
Yet, IMO, the mods got this one WRONG!
Chow Arthur!
rd >>
Well said. It's one thing to raise valid questions like Arthur did, that go unanswered. It's another thing to ban a great contributor for raising these questions. I really wish CU would re-consider and reinstate Arthur. He was a valued poster on these boards.
After all these years of lurking here on the psa boards and then finally joining in a few month's ago, it really has me questioning the reason I even bother reading and posting on these threads at all. If legimate hobby questions cannot be discussed here, why are any of us even here? Is the only reason we post here, is to see someone's latest subs? Or is it to discuss the hobby and the events within the hobby which includes psa grading, the registry, auctions, general collecting issues, etc..... ?
I can fully understand PSA not wanting any slanderous postings from occurring but by banning a great contributor only adds fuel to the fire about what his post contained and the questionable nature of what may go on from behind the scenes.
This kind of thing really makes me think long and hard about going back to collecting only raw cards and liquidating my graded cards.
Most of us here are all supporters of grading and PSA. Why would the CU moderators want to make a few of us want to give up collecting graded cards? It can only hurt the card hobby in the long run.
LMAO!
Ok ok, I changed my post (no more Chow, or Ciao, for that matter!)
Yikes! Sorry!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
<< <i>Bob,
Well said except the chow part.
LMAO!
Chow, Ciao? Screw it, I edited my post to read "....Sorry to see u go Arthur"
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
and he accepted that the consequences would be certain.
As time passes, I hope Arthur returns, too.
That said, there are other considerations:
1. As we all know, everyone here is a guest of CLCT's shareholders;
they pay for these boards. CLCT's rules ARE the rules.
2. The other site allows PSA-bashing postings from the surrogates of
the other grading company. That grading company is part of the
group that many observers would say has built each of its parts
by bashing and defaming other companies; their actual merits
are virtually nil, but their ability to bash competitors and hype their
own junk products is almost unsurpassed.
3. Try bashing that other grading company on that other site, and
see how long you last. Their resident bashers routinely post personal
information about any poster who dares to disagree with their
propaganda machine. That board's owner can deal harshly with folks
who disagree with the party-line; he has an absolute right to do that
because it is his board.
4. If CLCT wasted its time responding to the lies and defamations that
the surrogates of the other group of grading companies continually spread,
CLCT would have little time for any other endeavor. The "incident" that
was exploited by the PSA-bashers on the other site, amounted to NOTHING.
It was simply used by the bashers in their LONG ongoing attempts to boost/revive
a product that the market knows is, at best, second-best.
5. It should be noted that we almost never see any of CLCT's major players
bashing the other gang. That other gang's entire marketing campaign -
in cards/coins/currency - seems to be built on nothing but bashing of the
competition by their surrogates. When your products are junk, all you can
do is rely on defamation; and hope to instill doubt and fear among a
consumer-base that is usually willing to believe the worst.
storm
<< <i>Arthur is a fine fellow. He knew exactly what he was doing,
and he accepted that the consequences would be certain.
As time passes, I hope Arthur returns, too.
storm >>
BINGO!
<< <i>Arthur's gone?? You're kidding me. If I made a top 10 list of my favorite posters on here, he'd be on it.
Hope he makes it back in one form or another soon.
shawn >>
I agree with your sentiments, Shawn. I hope to see Arthur posting again here soon...
<< <i>Like bf, I talk with Arthur.
You can PM me also for his email address - I can tell ya that he misses you guys.
mike >>
Mike,
I've been stocking up on Greenwells (more "Mikes"!!) for Arthur. I was waiting to hear from him about a card ('91 SI For Kids?) and now have some more ('88 Leaf, '87 Topps hardback sticker, et al).
Could you please pass along my email address to him? Oops, I don't want to post it here, so I'll PM it to you.
Thanks,
And this is not a shot on PSA or any other grading company - but it's "pushed" my interests into other areas of collecting other than sports cards.
mike
<< <i>One thing that's been brewing for some time now...
And this is not a shot on PSA or any other grading company - but it's "pushed" my interests into other areas of collecting other than sports cards.
mike >>
I've "branched out" into other areas, too, Miguel. Can you say "postcards"?! I've enjoyed that thread with Tom, Arthur, 2dueces and others.
Are you still on the market for games? I see them occasionally at antique stores and often wonder if you would want them. If so, let me know if you have a want list or an inventory of what you already have!
Thanks...
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
All categories of collectibles that involve TPGs have
issues that are identical to the instant one. The
companies connected to the "collectors society"
all seem to rely on bashing to promote their services.
The cards/coins/currency parts of CLCT are all constantly
- and wrongfully - defamed by the other guys' surrogates.
MANY collectors now know the truth about the coin product
offered by the other guys; folks are starting to catch onto
the facts about the currency product.
Any outfit that must rely on defaming their competitors'
products, is not one that most folks want to deal with.
<< <i>Arthur is a fine fellow. He knew exactly what he was doing,
and he accepted that the consequences would be certain.
As time passes, I hope Arthur returns, too.
That said, there are other considerations:
1. As we all know, everyone here is a guest of CLCT's shareholders;
they pay for these boards. CLCT's rules ARE the rules.
2. The other site allows PSA-bashing postings from the surrogates of
the other grading company. That grading company is part of the
group that many observers would say has built each of its parts
by bashing and defaming other companies; their actual merits
are virtually nil, but their ability to bash competitors and hype their
own junk products is almost unsurpassed.
3. Try bashing that other grading company on that other site, and
see how long you last. Their resident bashers routinely post personal
information about any poster who dares to disagree with their
propaganda machine. That board's owner can deal harshly with folks
who disagree with the party-line; he has an absolute right to do that
because it is his board.
4. If CLCT wasted its time responding to the lies and defamations that
the surrogates of the other group of grading companies continually spread,
CLCT would have little time for any other endeavor. The "incident" that
was expolited by the PSA-bashers on the other site, amounted to NOTHING.
It was simply used by the bashers in their LONG ongoing attempts to boost/revive
a product that the market knows is, at best, second-best.
5. It should be noted that we almost never see any of CLCT's major players
bashing the other gang. That other gang's entire marketing campaign -
in cards/coins/currency - seems to be built on nothing but bashing of the
competition by their surrogates. When your products are junk, all you can
do is rely on defamation; and hope to instill doubt and fear among a
consumer-base that is usually willing to believe the worst.
storm >>
Well said and worth repeating
I collect cards as a fun hobby, not to look for reasons to complain, which appears to be half of the collectors motivation.
I also think PSA has reacted the same way any other company would. No company would put time, energy and money into something, like these boards, to create an avenue bash themselves. Yet, PSA does let you bash them around a little bit. How many threads have you seem with people complaining about the grade they got? Or something like I sent this in three times and it came back evidence of trim? (The later by the way sounds like they are doing their job quite well). Few companies would allow you to do this.
Okay, I put on my catchers uniform….so I am ready to take a little bashing myself,
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.