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Is every military casualty investigated this much? Or is it because Pat Tillman was a "celebrit


I have a hard time that thinking that every other fatality in recent years has been looked into this much.

What do you think?
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  • stormsurgestormsurge Posts: 858 ✭✭
    They haven't - only reason this one has imo was because of the press helping the family pressure the army for the real story (of which I think I heard on the radio this morning that they have been told 4 different ones to date).
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  • calaban7calaban7 Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭
    If he had been a nobody, he would've gottin the good old fashion ,you're nobody treatment. Look over at the football registry and look at what PSA did based on false knowlege. If it would've been known that he was killed by his comrades, I don't think PSA would've done what they did.

    Just to be sure no one misunderstands what I'm trying to say, I'd like to add that ANY soldier who is over there , IS a HERO. I absolutely disagree with why we are there, but none the less , they need our support. They have my support, but only in wholehearted theory.
    " In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    Less to do with celebrity status, and more to do with a blown coverup. Meaning, if they had told the truth at first, or even the second time around, then none of the soldiers involved would have been on television giving a different story, keeping the story alive.

    At least a few people, and some higher ups, have gotten in trouble for this.

    Mark
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.


  • << <i>I have a hard time that thinking that every other fatality in recent years has been looked into this much.

    What do you think? >>



    Of course not. The military exploited the Tillman name and the press is going to make sure they pay dearly, having smelled blood in the water. This will get no less press coverage than the Virginia Tech shooting -- watch and see.


  • << <i>If he had been a nobody, he would've gottin the good old fashion ,you're nobody treatment. Look over at the football registry and look at what PSA did based on false knowlege. If it would've been known that he was killed by his comrades, I don't think PSA would've done what they did.

    Just to be sure no one misunderstands what I'm trying to say, I'd like to add that ANY soldier who is over there , IS a HERO. I absolutely disagree with why we are there, but none the less , they need our support. They have my support, but only in wholehearted theory. >>




    What did PSA do??
  • calaban7calaban7 Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭
    Go to the football registry's players section. 1st off , simply scroll down and look at the list of names. Then click on his name and read what PSA wrote for him. We now know it was never true.

    Please, I'm NOT trying to pile on like these loser on the left, but really wish history could be history without the spin and even more so wish truth could be truth without the normal perversions(traditional meaning) that try to create something into something it was not.
    " In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
  • Oh wow I see what you mean.
  • if this was joe sixpack it would never get the press. But the family is really putting the pressure on; and he was a celebrity. A lot of smoke and mirrors, lies deception and cover ups. Just like the Jessica Lynch story; lots of exageration and outright lies.
  • 262Runner262Runner Posts: 606 ✭✭✭
    I must be missing something, I see nothing wrong with what PSA wrote about him.

    Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
    Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)

  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    I see nothing wrong or false about what PSA wrote either, most of which is a quote from Tagliabue.

    "On April 22, 2004, Pat Tillman died during a combat operation in Afghanistan, fighting for our freedom. Pat, who played for the Arizona Cardinals from 1998 through 2001, gave up his lucrative football career after the terrorist attacks on 9/11 to join the Army Rangers. He felt it was his duty to serve his country and therefore, put his life on the line. "Pat Tillman personified all the best values of his country and the NFL," commissioner Paul Tagliabue said. "He was an achiever and leader on many levels who always put his team, his community, and his country ahead of his personal interests." Pat Tillman will be remembered as an American hero."

    Mark


    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • calaban7calaban7 Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭
    Pat had more guts than most of us combined. I know he was following his heart and values. A man like that can never be faulted. My issue here is "Friendly fire" and or "combat mission".

    I live in the Peoples Republic of Maryland. Every so often a police officer will be shot by his wife or girlfriend or will die in a car accident driving to work. Days following we learn how he died as a hero and the traffic is snarled for 4-6 hours the day of his funeral. We need more officers , here in one of the murder capitols of the country, but just because a person becomes an officer, doesn't grant hero for life status.

    I have a son that is in the military in a elite special force. He may get sent to Iraq soon. If he were involved in a battle with the perceived enemy, and GOD choose this to be his time , I'd sure hope that he would be given hero's honors as they would have been earned. Friendly fire is a very brood brush to best describe death by one of our own , even if horseplay were involved. My son tells me that some very serious games are played at times. Not all game accidents makes a hero.

    Pat Tillman is a HERO to me because he gave up money and a carreer for what was important to him. He followed his calling, much like Tim Burke and others like them. Until all the "true " fact are revealed , I have a very difficult time in making him a hero because he was killed in "Friendly Fire ".
    " In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Pat Tillman is a hero and classic example of a selfless individual who put honor and country before material riches and a celebrity lifestyle. How many pro athletes in today's world do you think would EVER dream of giving up a successful pro career to be a soldier? I can't think of a single one. That's what was so remarkable about Pat Tillman, IMO. The tragic and unclear circumstances surrounding his unfortunate death do nothing to diminish his stature and why he should as highly regarded as he was/is. I also have no problem at all what PSA wrote, either, and frankly don't understand why anyone would.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • PubliusPublius Posts: 1,306 ✭✭


    << <i>Pat Tillman is a hero and classic example of a selfless individual who put honor and country before material riches and a celebrity lifestyle. How many pro athletes in today's world do you think would EVER dream of giving up a successful pro career to be a soldier? I can't think of a single one. That's what was so remarkable about Pat Tillman, IMO. The tragic and unclear circumstances surrounding his unfortunate death do nothing to diminish his stature and why he should as highly regarded as he was/is. I also have no problem at all what PSA wrote, either, and frankly don't understand why anyone would. Making analogies about the deaths of police officers in or outside the line of duty sounds like sour grapes to me and really has no relevance at all to the story of Pat Tillman and what he chose to do with his life after the 9/11 attacks on our country. Just my .02. >>




    Well said.

    Like you guys said, name a single player who would give up their career to support their country, we cant even get basketball players to finish HS or college without being tempted by te moolah.

    Dont think less of me as a man, but I cried, albeit just a little, when I read the article about him in SI

    joe
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "Until all the "true " fact are revealed , I have a very difficult time in
    making him a hero because he was killed in "Friendly Fire." "

    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    It appeared his brother stated the facts this morning.

    Gun battle with stoneage creatures. Seconds later, part
    of his force mistook him for one of those creatures. It was
    an accident, but he still died in combat against enemy
    creatures.

    Too bad OUR government chose not to simply tell the
    truth about what happened.

    "It's always the coverup that brings you down."
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • GDM67GDM67 Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭✭
    If the Army hadn't originally exploited this man's obvious and undeniable patriotism for it's own purposes, this would never have been such a high profile case. But once you blow up a story in the first place (namely the circumstances of his joining), you invite intense scrutiny and thus had better play it straight if something bad happens and not pile lie upon lie.

    The Army made him a high profile guy (against his explicit and repeated wishes), then made a huge mess of the situation when he died. His family has every right to be angry.
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