Does anyone bid up ebay items to protect their investment?

blaze42

Am I the only one who bids up items on ebay on items I have in my collection to try to preserve their value?
I am talking about fairly uncommon items.. For instance, I have a nice 1939 playball wrapper. It's worth $150-$200. You don't see them very offen on ebay. When one shows up, I make sure it doesn't end up closing at $50. I will bid it up ( hopefully not get stuck) and hopefully keep it's value propped up.Another example would be vintage world series and all star programs..... Am I the only one who does this?

dontippet

I can't say that I bid up an item to protect the resale value of my item, but I do tend to bid on items in which I know are worth much more in hopes of getting "stuck" paying $50 for a $150 item.

storm888

It is a pretty common practice.

It is often discussed on the EBAY boards.

blaze42

this really doesn't apply to "common" items....obviously one transaction isn't going to affect a commonly traded item.

WinPitcher

Blaze

Why not hope it ends at 50.00 and you are the winner? That way you have averaged down your investment?


Steve

blaze42

<< <i>Blaze

Why not hope it ends at 50.00 and you are the winner? That way you have averaged down your investment?


Steve >>


Hey Steve...cause when I eventually want to sell it, I am afraid the market value will be defiined by the recent closing prices.. For instance, I have an un-used centennial of baseball ticket. Whenever I see a stub for sale, I cringe when I see it going for small bucks...

WinPitcher

hmmm not sure I understand but I'll assume that you bid up the same item whenever it comes up. Therefore you 'protect' your investment by artificial means.

the day comes for you to sell.

you are no longer there to artificially bid up your item, or do you now shill bid it up?


Not sure artificially bidding up an item will work over the long run. What will work is for the seller to set a reserve or a starting bid that is in line with the value.


I guess to answer your question though I'd say yes it prolly happens more then we think.

I just do not see how it will help over the long run. Items with true demand will sell for what they are valued at. Unless of course it is marketed poorly.

Steve

Publius

I once bid on a card I had in my set. I had 1/2, and the other one came up on ebay. A guy putting together the same set as me was bidding on it, so I bid on it to make sure he didnt get it cheap, ended up with it.

I probably wont do that again

WinPitcher

As a seller It would benefit me. I just do not think in the long run it benefits the person doing it.

IMO we should have more important things to worry about then if a wrapper/pack of ball cards retains a 150.00 value.


Steve

blaze42

q]As a seller It would benefit me. I just do not think in the long run it benefits the person doing it.

IMO we should have more important things to worry about then if a wrapper/pack of ball cards retains a 150.00 value.


Steve >>



Fair enough...stated that way it does seem silly. Some of us are collectors, and some investors....most are both.... But what do you think establishes the value of your collection? Supply and demand. When an item I want becomes available thru ebay, a dealer, and aution house etc....I consider what it has sold for recently and bid/pay wrt that price.
To beat this point into the ground.....There are 4+ serious buyers of WS and AS programs on ebay. ( they are apparently also dealers) They essentially set the price. My theory is that it might make it hard for me to get a "steal" on a program,but by competing against each other they keep the price stable (and high). If they go away...prices will drop and the value of my programs would go down

WinPitcher

Blaze you do not know that. If they go away OTHERS may come in.


Steve

blaze42

FWIW...one of the buyers actually/literally helps sets the price. Robert Crestohl is a bidder and is the publisher of The Baseball and Sports Publications Price Guide. One more funny thing is that the other price guides just cite each other's tables and regurgitate them. A lot of voodoo employed. Ask them about how the values are determined and they don't know. (maybe that's why it has been years since the last updates) They often quote a price range without referencing if it is for for condition and if so what condition. When I ask..they don't know. To be accurate, some items values do refer to the condition, but you would be shocked how many aren't.
If the Guides ever decided to update...where would they get the values? Recent sales. Without sounding neurotic ( is it too late??) I need to do my part in propping prices up.

rbdjr1

I had to artificially prop something up last nite!

rd


edit: To: pandrews. No Perry, I wasn't bidding up my Billy Dickey card!

shagrotn77

Yes, there are certain items I will bid up to help them maintain their value.

WinPitcher

I am glad some of you guys do that. You are making sellers dough.

I guess.


Steve

rbdjr1

Artificially proping up prices? Bidding on items with no intention of owning them to artificially raise the price (i.e., sounds like shilling to me)?

All sounds pretty fishy?

rd

I think you should just do what Steve said. Buy the second wrapper for $50, and be happy.



edit: What if the market for that wrapper is actually now around $50, because that is what collectors are willing to pay now? The fact that u paid $150 some time in the past, it could simply mean that a current $150 price tag is someone overpaying by a hundred bucks, no?

stown

In my humble and honest opinion, I think it's wrong to bid on any item you don't intend to buy. It's artificially inflating the price and is not a true indicator of market value.

Not saying it doesn't happen, just not something I'll participate in.

Edited to add: Ooops, didn't mean to repeat what was said above. Guess I'm not the only one who thinks this way

yankeeno7

It's a form of shilling IMO. Wrong to do...nothing right about it. Maybe you paid too much for yours? Something is only worth what another person is willing to pay.

tkd7

I think as long as you intend to honor the bid you place and you aren't connected to the seller in some unethical way, there isn't a problem with bidding up an item on ebay.

The difficult part is that I don't think this really protects your investment. The bottom line is that the value of an item is determined by the buyer, and there are many things that determine that value, i.e. condition, seller reputation, time of sale, etc.

dude

I agree with Winpitcher and Stown. Driving up the price on something you don't have any interest in buying is a big turnoff and I'm aware of several registry collectors who do this on a regular basis. In their eyes, it may be protecting their investment, but from my viewpoint it comes off as, "I paid big bucks for my card, why should you get it for a fraction of the price?"

gosteelers

As previous posters mentioned, you're artificially creating demand. When you sell, who's gonna buy? It's unethical, in my mind, but in the world of the sports card business, ethics go out the window!

yankeeno7

<< <i>As previous posters mentioned, you're artificially creating demand. When you sell, who's gonna buy? It's unethical, in my mind, but in the world of the sports card business, ethics go out the window! >>



Isnt that the truth.....

gosteelers

<< <i>

<< <i>As previous posters mentioned, you're artificially creating demand. When you sell, who's gonna buy? It's unethical, in my mind, but in the world of the sports card business, ethics go out the window! >>



Isnt that the truth..... >>



Did anyone ever take a trip down 'Memory Lane'?

blaze42

if 3 people wants the same wrapper at the same time it sells for $250
if 5 ....its sells for $300
if 1 ..... it sells for the reserve or maybe $10

what's the wrapper's book value?

most memorabilia is not graded...no SMR...just voodoo

yankeeno7

<< <i>if 3 people wants the same wrapper at the same time it sells for $250
if 5 ....its sells for $300
if 1 ..... it sells for the reserve or maybe $10

what's the wrapper's book value?

most memorabilia is not graded...no SMR...just voodoo >>



And artificial value if you dont really want to buy the item.

Does it matter what the "book" value is? Let's not forget that these "book" values are a guide, not the actual value of an item.

And how do we know that if 5 people want the same wrapper or any other item that it will sell for more?
Lets say....5 interested parties and not one willing to pay more than $200?

Major flaws in that theory.

blaze42

OK...let's stipulate that this is a hypothetical?

Can we agree that that is why items often sell for more than others?

larryallen73

I have never even considered bidding on something to "preserve value." In my opinion "value" is what it sells for the day I decide to sell it.

blaze42

For those of you that don't support my theory...what do you collect?
Any of you collect memorabilia?

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

I dont do that and picture me laughing every time you get stuck with one.


I paid $500 for a FF version that later another of the same version sold for around $100. Oh well. I overpaid. Am I going to "inflate" this for the next 20 add years to make a few $$'s ? No.

Im sure it happens alot.

Your outbidding others who might want one. They actuallly might want one. A collector. They do exist. I saw one on T.V. If your so worried about a $150 investment and have to go to these extremes I think there is Cd's or other options that are a safer bet for a investment.

WinPitcher

Blaze

Don't take this wrong but what you are saying is lame. To inflate an items price just cuz you paid X is wrong.


I collect just about everything.


back when 1965 mint 9's were hot I knew I would not win any cuz 2 other guys were going crazy. I bid on everyone for what I was confortable with. 69.99 was the highest I'd go for ones I DID NOT already have. Ones I already had I'd pass.

Steve

blaze42

You are still missing the point...my collection is more than 1 wrapper.
And you didn't over-pay for your card....
If the next 10 FF cards sell for $500 then the BV approximates $500...if the next 10 sell for $100....THEN you overpaid

larryallen73

If your so worried about a $150 investment and have to go to these extremes I think there is Cd's or other options that are a safer bet for a investment.

I tend to agree. Seems like a lot of work for such a small investment. Presumably you have many of these which makes for a ton of work to keep track of everything. I realize you may enjoy keeping track of the prices, watching auctions, etc... but, to me, it doesn't sound like fun.

larryallen73

Don't take this wrong but what you are saying is lame. To inflate an items price just cuz you paid X is wrong.

Agreed.

baseballfanatic

Wow this is ridiculous

Like winpitcher, I bid on anything and everything

The things on my watch list can include anything from packs to cards to anything.

If one person pays 199.00 for a PSA 9 card and one pays 80.00 one week later for the same card, what is the card worth?

sagard

For a while auctions used to benefit the seller. On the VAST majority of items now the auctions are going to go cheaper than they would at a reasonable fixed price. Propping up the price on a given item is desparate measure.

jmbkb4

<< <i>Wow this is ridiculous

Like winpitcher, I bid on anything and everything

The things on my watch list can include anything from packs to cards to anything.

If one person pays 199.00 for a PSA 9 card and one pays 80.00 one week later for the same card, what is the card worth? >>



Worth? What on this earth, materialistically-speaking, has any inherent worth??

blaze42

Ok I concede...I'm lame....
I'm going to sign off and look at my spreadsheets...

MorrellMan

Let's look at this mathematically:
Item X is on the block. You paid $500 for it at one time and want to make sure it holds it's value (meaning nobody gets to buy it for less than $500.)
Let's assume that serious bidders know that this item went for $500 at one time (you), but would, of course, like to buy it this time for less.
Bidder A bids $100.
Bidder B bids $200. He's now high bidder at $105 (or whatever the incremental raise is).
Bidder C bids $505. He's now high bidder at $205.
You bid $500 to protect your investment. Bidder C wins at $505.
Perhaps the same scenerio occurs at a different time; perhaps not. In any event, cut to the time in the future when you want to sell.
Bidder A bids $100. (You laugh)
Bidder B bids $200. He's now high bider at $105. (You smirk and chuckle)
Bidder D bids $505. He's now high bidder at $205. (You sit back and wait for the clobber)
But the clobber doesn't happen because the clobberer was you. Bidder D ends up with the card for $205.
Not only did you not protect your investment, but you unfairly cost Bidder C $300.

I'll spill my guts here - it's probably a very little known fact that I collect '59 Morrell cards. I chase some of the cards I already have, not to protect my investment, but in the off chance that I may pick up a duplicate at a well-below market value. There are a number of reasons why this can occur in an auction, least of which is that the aggressive buyers may be on vacation that week.

Blaze - you can't control what you can't control. It's a big ol' world out there, and values will be determined in spite of your efforts.

stown

<< <i>OK...let's stipulate that this is a hypothetical? >>



Hypothetically, it's unethical, IMO, to bid on cards (with ZERO intent to purchase) to artificially increase the market value only to protect your purchase.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

<< <i>You are still missing the point...my collection is more than 1 wrapper.
And you didn't over-pay for your card....
If the next 10 FF cards sell for $500 then the BV approximates $500...if the next 10 sell for $100....THEN you overpaid >>






Only 2 sales in my years of collecting it.

$500 and $100


I know if another sells it will be around $100 or less. I paid $500 as I didnt want to wait for another. I knew I was overpaying and accepted it.


MAYBE, if were talking about thousands of dollars then I could see you "protecting" as most buyers at that price range can afford to go higher etc.. but at a few hundred your putting out alot of collectors.

I used to buy FF versions to inspect for new variations and then flip them to "advertise" my master set mission but one of the reason I stopped was it looked like I was trying to corner/hoard/inflate/profit from my collection.

If you have to resort to practices ie shill bidding, resealing packs,over grading,X husband lots etc. then you are helping destroy this hobby.

shagrotn77

This is a common practice, and we're not talking about shill bidding here. When I for one place a bid on an item I already own, it's a price I'd be glad to pay if I won the auction. So we're not talking about making anyone reach deeper into their pockets, or padding those belonging to dealers. If I think winning multiples of a card that I already have will be a good investment down the road, heck yeah I'll try to win it.

bxb

Some people bid on an item they already have in order to upgrade their sets. I know I do this.

To bid up an item to protect as an "investment" is a fallacy, as illustrated by others on this thread.

Except for really rare items, most certified sports cards expenditures should not be classified as investments. The risk is so high I would think the closest comparison is junk bonds.

The market is just too volatile, and the dependence on highly subjective third party graders to print money is just too high.

$0.02

2dueces

I don't even try. Fair market value eventually wins out.
If I own something that I paid $150.00 for and it goes for $50, I guess I paid too much.
Hopefully everything I own goes up. But we all know
that ain't gonna happen on everything. Joe

stown

<< <i>This is a common practice, and we're not talking about shill bidding here. When I for one place a bid on an item I already own, it's a price I'd be glad to pay if I won the auction. So we're not talking about making anyone reach deeper into their pockets, or padding those belonging to dealers. If I think winning multiples of a card that I already have will be a good investment down the road, heck yeah I'll try to win it. >>



But that's not what Blaze is saying. He doesn't intend to win the auction, just wants to artificially increase the hammer price.

Re-read his original post.

"Am I the only one who bids up items on ebay on items I have in my collection to try to preserve their value?
I am talking about fairly uncommon items.. For instance, I have a nice 1939 playball wrapper. It's worth $150-$200. You don't see them very offen on ebay. When one shows up, I make sure it doesn't end up closing at $50. I will bid it up ( hopefully not get stuck) and hopefully keep it's value propped up.Another example would be vintage world series and all star programs..... Am I the only one who does this?"

blaze42

<< <i>

<< <i>But that's not what Blaze is saying. He doesn't intend to win the auction, just wants to artificially increase the hammer price.

Re-read his original post.

"Am I the only one who bids up items on ebay on items I have in my collection to try to preserve their value?
I am talking about fairly uncommon items.. For instance, I have a nice 1939 playball wrapper. It's worth $150-$200. You don't see them very offen on ebay. When one shows up, I make sure it doesn't end up closing at $50. I will bid it up ( hopefully not get stuck) and hopefully keep it's value propped up.Another example would be vintage world series and all star programs..... Am I the only one who does this?" >>



In defense of my lame practice...If I do win...I'm not devistated, cause my top bid is still an amount I can live with. The "stuck" reference is that I have limited resources...so little money...so much I want to buy

shagrotn77

<< <i>But that's not what Blaze is saying. He doesn't intend to win the auction, just wants to artificially increase the hammer price. >>



Guess I misinterpreted. For me, I never a bid a price I'm not happy to pay, or not willing to pay. Not sure why someone would.

tkd7

<< <i>When one shows up, I make sure it doesn't end up closing at $50. I will bid it up ( hopefully not get stuck) and hopefully keep it's value propped up.Another example would be vintage world series and all star programs..... Am I the only one who does this?" >>



I take this to mean that blaze will honor his bid if he wins, so I don't see the issue. People bid, win, and pay for items for lots of different reasons. That is the roll of the dice in an auction for the seller and the buyer. If he were to bid up an item and shill or renege, I think it is completely unethical. I can see where it may have the appearance of shilling, but it really isn't since the seller isn't boosting the price of the item.

I think the hypothesis that it keeps the market price high is flawed, however.

yankeeno7

Well, if you are willing to pay the juice for your bid then fine, no problem there. You may even try to sell it at the same price or higher...but that doesnt mean it will sell at that price. But you are not doing anything to help yourself by trying to inflate selling prices of items.

Barfvader

<< <i>For those of you that don't support my theory...what do you collect?
Any of you collect memorabilia? >>



To find out what I collect just click the link below.

And I can tell you 100% that I don't care what any of it books at or what it's worth or that it has to be in the best condition. To me, the hours upon hours of time I have invested in my collection (notice I don't say money) searching out a new item to add to it is worth more to me than anything else. And I do it the old fashioned way by searching out yard sales and actual stores. Oh I could go on eBay and find all sorts of stuff I would like to have but the thrill of the hunt is way more satisfying.



Jeff

blaze42

Ok let be specific....what is this flag worth?


Anyone want to guess?
Want to look it up and see it's BV in a guide? Guess again.

Even though my thinking is lame...it isn't shill bidding..it isn't overgrading....it isn't unethical...


It's value is of course what a buyer is willing to pay for it, but if you think that if one is available on the auction circuit right now( and it is) and I don't care what it goes for or if you think my flag's value is not affected by what it closes at ...

Just to clarify, I do not scour the internet looking at items I own and prop up their value. But when I see an uncommon item that I own I will bid it up..and this thread was simply to see if I'm alone in this thinking. Apparently I am.

lowstartmick

From collecting 101, an item is only "worth" as much as someone is willing to pay for it.
Although, strikingly similar practices are often used by major auction houses and in certain cases these companies are enabled by grading companies in their efforts keep these machinations quit. I seem to recall a thread, but perhaps it was just a bad dream