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Snipe programs............someone explain?

DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

I see how the late bid against a person who is just sitting there and watching for his bid to last could work at the last second.

BUT.....................If the bid is at $30 up to the last second and your program puts you in at $31.........AND.........the guy with the $30 bid had a max of $100..........................he gets it for $32..........RIGHT!

I don't see how you could beat someone out who has a higher max. If you can it's NOT RIGHT and as far as I am concerned nothing should be allowed like this in the first place.

You should have to be sitting there bidding or have placed a max bid.

Seems like no matter where you go or what field you get into some people want to cheat and steal!


So, How does it work and is it right?

Comments

  • Dan50Dan50 Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭
    You load your top bid into a snipe program, and during the last 5 seconds it will bid up to your max for the item.
    Works almost the same as ebay covering your bid. Goes up to whatever it takes to win, but stops at the limit you set.
    Dan
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Read Dan50's reply I don't see the advantage of the snipe program over a max bid...............What am I missing?????
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What am I missing????? >>



    A 1991-D

    Later, Paul.

    Later, Paul.
  • DrizztDrizzt Posts: 1,036 ✭✭✭
    A program is faster, and you don't have to worry about getting getting distracted by tv, forums, or 2 year olds because you don't have to be there. Also keeps you anonymous as a bidder until the last second.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wait untill you lose a coin by 1 cent because of a snipe. It happened to me and I do not see how it did because the bidder did not go up a full increment. Snipes are part of the game and we who do not use the program have to live with it.

    Ken
  • ellewoodellewood Posts: 1,750
    A 1991-D

    image
    image
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    some bidders make their bid of say $30 with a couple hours left and are not high bidders

    they check the description again and 10 minutes later they decide they can go to $50
    they go away but still think they would like that item and bid $80
    but still not high bidder

    30 minutes until close but high bid is now $80
    they may give up or bid again before close


    that bidder bumped up the price $50 but could have been high bidder at $30 until close




    if you don't think this happens you don't look at bid historys
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    O contrier mon sewer Scrooge....................I do have a 1991-D..................It is just not in it's slab yet!!!!
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>O contrier mon sewer Scrooge....................I do have a 1991-D..................It is just not in it's slab yet!!!! >>


    imageimageimageimageimageimageimageimage

    Later, Paul.

    Later, Paul.
  • One potential advantage of a super-late (snipe) bid is that no one will even have enough time to react, let alone think about it, and then put in "just one last try" of a higher bid.
    image
    I am not kidding,

    G99G
    I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heartimage NOT.

    People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.

    image
    Every empty box?
    C'mon!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    because logic does not dictate all ebayers' actions, snipe programs are essential tools for "must have" coins.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let me ask this.......................If you set you snipe program for 200 OR put in a 200 max bid.............Would it achieve the same goal?
  • I think if you put in a $200 max bid and a snipe program also has a $200 max bid, you win.

    The advantage, I believe, with a snipe program is that you don't know that there is another bidder. Say you have a bid of $30 of thirty with a max bid of $40. With a couple of minutes to go, another bidder enters his bid of $31 and sees you have it at $32. He keeps putting in small increments and with a minute to go he finally gets the bid. With thirty seconds to go, he still has the bid. Same with 15 seconds left. He figures he has it and doesn't put in another bid. Snipe gets it for $42 even though the sniper is willing to pay $75. With the snipe, the bidder gets to lay in the weeds and if he's got a better chance of winning the item without someone outbidding him only by the next increment. The key is that the sniper just puts in his maximum and may win the coin at a lower price because he doesn't get into a bidding war. But he could end up paying his maximum or even losing, but he stays out of a bidding war.
  • LincolnCentManLincolnCentMan Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭✭
    What am I missing?????

    You're missing that there are bidders out there that tend to bid mulitple times, changing their mind about their max bid each time to a higher amount. I had a coin drove up a hundred dollars that way reciently. A snipe placed in the last seconds would have limited the bozo to one bid instead of the three that he ultimatly placed in the last minute.

    -David
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess I see how the snipe option keeps you unknown until the end, BUT I would think the snipe program could run out of time if started in the laste few seconds since it could only bid as fast as ebay could handle the back and forth. Whereas the max bid could not run out of time as long as the bid didn't reach the max.

    For example, If a coin is at $30 and that's my bid and my max is $200 and you start your snipe with seconds to go and your snipe max is say $300, ebay and the snipe program could not go back and forth 100 times with seconds to go!

    Looks like max is a better way to go unless I am missing something!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I guess I see how the snipe option keeps you unknown until the end, BUT I would think the snipe program could run out of time if started in the laste few seconds since it could only bid as fast as ebay could handle the back and forth. Whereas the max bid could not run out of time as long as the bid didn't reach the max.

    For example, If a coin is at $30 and that's my bid and my max is $200 and you start your snipe with seconds to go and your snipe max is say $300, ebay and the snipe program could not go back and forth 100 times with seconds to go!

    Looks like max is a better way to go unless I am missing something! >>



    you are missing something.

    -bid at $30 with a minute to go (max is $200, right?)
    -my snipe for $300 kicks in with three seconds left (shortest time I can elect with auctionstealer)
    -I win for $202.50 or $205, whatever the increment is.

    sniping eliminates the up-bidding by people who do not commit to a max and just respond to other bids. Granted, sniping doesn't beat a higher max, but does save you some money in the long run (at least it has for me.
  • "I guess I see how the snipe option keeps you unknown until the end, BUT I would think the snipe program could run out of time if started in the laste few seconds since it could only bid as fast as ebay could handle the back and forth."

    What you're not getting is that there IS NO "back and forth." The snipe program places one single bid in the last five seconds, so they never run out of time. They go in to bid just once, to place your maximum bid, and then they're done. Once in a blue moon they may place the bid too late (after the end time for the auction has passed) due to technical difficulties, such as a slow internet server, but that kind of failure is really extremely rare.

    The advantage of late bidding is that it avoids a ”price war.”

    Thus, many incremental bidders bid late, but one-bid bidders tend to bid even later. Moreover, the data indicates that incremental bidding significantly diminishes with experience (as measured by the bidders' feedback numbers), while last-minute bidding increases with experience. Overall, the analysis of multiple bids supports the hypothesis that last-minute bidding arises at least in part as a response by sophisticated bidders to unsophisticated incremental bidding.
    Axel Ockenfels, University of Magdeburg, Germany & Alvin E. Roth, Harvard University; "The timing of bids in Internet auctions: Market design, Bidder behavior and Artificial agents"

    A salient fact that a number of researchers have noted about bidding on online auctions is that bids frequently arrive very late in the auction. For instance, Bajari and Hortacsu in their survey of eBay coin auctions report that the median winning bid is submitted after 98.3% of the total auction time period has elapsed.
    Patrick Bajari, Stanford University & Ali Hortacsu, University of Chicago; “Cyberspace Auctions and Pricing Issues: A Review of Empirical Findings”
    image
    I am not kidding,

    G99G
    I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heartimage NOT.

    People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.

    image
    Every empty box?
    C'mon!
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, if I'm ready G99G's reply correctly, the snipe program just puts in a max bid for you in the last few seconds.

    So, If I already had a 200 max bid in and your snipe program put your 200 max in at the last second.........I win because I was first.

    Correct?

    Thanks for the input.


    Jon
  • If the bids are exactly the same you are correct.
    image
    I am not kidding,

    G99G
    I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heartimage NOT.

    People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.

    image
    Every empty box?
    C'mon!
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    <<You load your top bid into a snipe program, and during the last 5 seconds it will bid up to your max for the item.
    Works almost the same as ebay covering your bid. Goes up to whatever it takes to win, but stops at the limit you set.>>

    Why don't you just put in your max bid then, why use a snipe program?
    Don't most of these sniper services charge you a fee?
  • garsmithgarsmith Posts: 5,894 ✭✭
    <<Wait untill you lose a coin by 1 cent because of a snipe. It happened to me and I do not see how it did because the bidder did not go up a full increment. Snipes are part of the game and we who do not use the program have to live with it.

    Ken>>

    If thier max is 1 cent over your max you still lose, so why not just place your max bid and ride out the storm!
  • sonofagunksonofagunk Posts: 1,349 ✭✭
    I use the snipe programs to put in my max bid and not get caught up in the hype. As soon as a coin comes out that I want, I figure out what I am willing to pay and I put it in the snipe program and I forget about it. I do not get caught up in the back and forth bidding. $5 doesn't mean much to me, so if I were to bid and someone out bid me (and there were time left) I might bid again. But now I am paying more than I think it was worth. But I think what is more important is that the other guy cannot think that he can afford another $5 and either drive up the price I pay or actually outbide me.


    If thier max is 1 cent over your max you still lose, so why not just place your max bid and ride out the storm!

    Because they might see that your max bid might be only 1 cent over their max bid, so they might bid again and then you lose.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    if one wishes to pay at or near his/her max bid neaerly every time, don't use a snipe program. If one wishes to pay less, sometimes significantly less, than his/her max bid, use a snipe program.
  • StoogeStooge Posts: 4,639 ✭✭✭✭✭
    G99G's post is very true. Over the years I have seriously decreased my weekly bidding on an item and have waited to bid with less then 30 seconds to go. I have tried to bid with less time and sometimes I get the wonderful freeze up such as with TT. Whats the point of winning an auction all week when the only time to win an auction is at the end. There are alot and I mean alot of bidders out there that just have to be the top bidder all week. If you and him are the only 2 bidders, and he has to be winning let him win until the very end when you come in with a snipe bid...

    I'm seriously thinking of using this for the more serious auctions!

    Later, Paul.

    Later, Paul.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>G99G's post is very true. Over the years I have seriously decreased my weekly bidding on an item and have waited to bid with less then 30 seconds to go. I have tried to bid with less time and sometimes I get the wonderful freeze up such as with TT. Whats the point of winning an auction all week when the only time to win an auction is at the end. There are alot and I mean alot of bidders out there that just have to be the top bidder all week. If you and him are the only 2 bidders, and he has to be winning let him win until the very end when you come in with a snipe bid...

    I'm seriously thinking of using this for the more serious auctions!

    Later, Paul. >>



    I'll bet (no betting allowed, I know) that once you make the switch, you won't go back for auctions for the "good stuff"
  • RBinTexRBinTex Posts: 4,328
    Anyone that doesn't use a snipe program is NOT getting every efficiency. To think you are better off not using it is pure ignorance (& I mean this in the nicest way possible).
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I rarely bid on eBay but when I do I always use a snipe for the better stuff. Wouldn't worry about it for stuff like common silver eagles.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I DON'T see the advantage of the snipe program over the max bid! image
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I DON'T see the advantage of the snipe program over the max bid! image >>



    give it a try and report back...you will see a difference
  • "I DON'T see the advantage of the snipe program over the max bid!"

    With all respect, you should re-read my previous post in this thread of Friday April 20, 2007 10:23 PM.

    Simply put, what is there about the statement that "The advantage of late bidding is that it avoids a 'price war'.” that you find hard to understand or don't agree with?

    Put another way, there is no advantage of using a snipe program over a maximum bid as long as you are willing to sit by your computer and place your bid 5 seconds before the auction ends. Otherwise, the more time that you leave available before the auction is due to end the more likely it is that you will invite a "price war," i.e., end up with a higher final price as well as increase the likelihood that you may lose the auction to some other, later bidder.
    image
    I am not kidding,

    G99G
    I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heartimage NOT.

    People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.

    image
    Every empty box?
    C'mon!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"I DON'T see the advantage of the snipe program over the max bid!"

    With all respect, you should re-read my previous post in this thread of Friday April 20, 2007 10:23 PM.

    Simply put, what is there about the statement that "The advantage of late bidding is that it avoids a 'price war'.” that you find hard to understand or don't agree with?

    Put another way, there is no advantage of using a snipe program over a maximum bid as long as you are willing to sit by your computer and place your bid 5 seconds before the auction ends. Otherwise, the more time that you leave available before the auction is due to end the more likely it is that you will invite a "price war," i.e., end up with a higher final price as well as increase the likelihood that you may lose the auction to some other, later bidder. >>



    sometimes logic does not matter.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    G99G......Let me show you why waiting until the last second doesn't make any difference.

    Let's say me and you are going after the same coin. All week it sets at $30, which is my bid with a $200 max. You put your snipe to work at the last second with $210 as your limit.

    You don't get it at $30 something.....it cost you the next increment over my $200 bid. If my max would have been $211, I would have won at $211.

    The only way your snipeing can get it for you cheap......is if no one else is using a snipe AND everyone else is bidding at there keyboard and not using the max bid.

    I'm not trying to be hard headed here, but the above is true.
  • manscomansco Posts: 229
    Dimeman,

    I don't understand your last note. Was your max $200 or $211.

    If you max was $200, the snipe wins. The snipe goes in at $210 and beats your $200.

    If the snipe's max was $201, the snipe still wins because the snipe only comes in with one bid, $201. If the bid was at $30 and you had no max of $200, the snipe gets it for the first increment over $30. If you had a max of $200, the snipe gets it for $201 becuase the snipe's bid registers at $201 before your $200 bid even gets recognized. You only win if the snipe has a bid equal or less than yours. If the snipe has a bid of even one cent more than you, the snipe wins because he has the highest bid in before it is compared to your max. I know this sounds confusing, but it is all very logical. The highest bidder wins. You are better off sniping.

    What part are you confused about? Or am I missing your point?

  • manscomansco Posts: 229
    Dimeman,

    I just reread your last post. The snipe doesn't have to have an increment over your max, he just has to have a bid greater than your max.
    Technically, he is putting in a bid higher than yours before you have the bid at your max. It would be no different than if he put in a max greater than yours 3 days earlier...except that you would then know it and you would have a chance to outbid him.. With the snipe, you don't get another chance to outbid him.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mansco.........I said IF my max was 211 then it would go the other way.


    And you don't know my max bid either if it is at say 30 and my max is 200.

    I see NO advantage to the snipe over a max bid, because either way you don't know how high to put your max to beat the other guy.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you can try sniping for free at www.vrane.com the only drawback is that it submits your snipe bid a hair early like 7-9 seconds before the eBay auction ends. just go to their website click on public and follow the signs.
  • USAROKUSAROK Posts: 887 ✭✭✭
    Dimeman, The problem with your logic is it only works if everyone bids their absolute maximum but many bidders don't do this. Here's an example of how sniping can save you money. You and I are the only two bidders interested in this particular lot:

    Scenario 1 shows a common eBay bidding pattern (Auction opens at $0.99):

    USAROK max bids: $45.00 Current bid: $0.99 (USAROK)
    DIMEMAN max bids: $100.00 Current bid: $46.00 (DIMEMAN)
    USAROK bids: $50.00 Current Bid: $51.00 (DIMEMAN)
    USAROK bids: $60.00 Current bid: $61.00 (DIMEMAN)
    USAROK bids: $75.00 Current bid: $76.00 (DIMEMAN)
    USAROK bids: $95.00 Current bid: $96.00 (DIMEMAN)
    Auction ends with DIMEMAN winning at $96.00


    Scenario 2 (Auction opens at $0.99):

    USAROK max bids: $45.00 Current bid: $0.99 (USAROK)
    DIMEMAN Snipe max bids: $100.00 with 3 seconds left and wins the auction for $46.00. I have no time to raise my bid.

    DIMEMAN saves $50.00 by sniping
  • USAROK,

    Good example.

    mansco
  • USAROK,

    Excellent example. I wish I had thought of it! image

    G99G
    image
    I am not kidding,

    G99G
    I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heartimage NOT.

    People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.

    image
    Every empty box?
    C'mon!
  • LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And one thing not mentioned is that shills sometimes just run your bid up to or close to your max bid when the coin should of sold for a lot less. I am talking about when you put in that early MAX bid.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The drawback to sniping is that another bidder [if its a hot item] may have set his maximum bid very high so you run the risk of winning close to your snipe amount. Like any other bidding don't set your snipe bid any higher than you are willing to pay. If you really want to guarantee a winning bid just set your snipe amount to the stupid money setting; be prepared to possibly pay stupid money for the privilege.
  • The drawback to sniping is that another bidder [if its a hot item] may have set his maximum bid very high so you run the risk of winning close to your snipe amount. Like any other bidding don't set your snipe bid any higher than you are willing to pay. If you really want to guarantee a winning bid just set your snipe amount to the stupid money setting; be prepared to possibly pay stupid money for the privilege.

    Interesting BAJJERFAN should say that, because when I've really wanted to win an auction (although I must admit I don't recall having done this to buy a coin) I have on numerous occasions "set [my] snipe amount to the stupid money setting," and yet I have never once (so far) had to "pay stupid money for the privilege." Even under those circumstances it almost never happens that two people are both prepared to pay up ridiculously big bucks for the same item in the same auction.

    Of course, BAJJERFAN gave the best advice: the ultimate protection is "don't set your snipe bid any higher than you are willing to pay." image

    G99G (BTW, I love that abbreviation, "G99G" -- Thanks for the nickname, DIMEMAN!!)
    image
    I am not kidding,

    G99G
    I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heartimage NOT.

    People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.

    image
    Every empty box?
    C'mon!
  • Good examples USAROK. Sniping eliminates the fuss and bother (although sometimes that's the thrill of bidding) and can save you money...unless you run into other "snipers". Happened to me on one occasion where the bid price of the coin went up over $500 within the last minute of the auction...apparently there were at least two snipers and probably a max bidder--fortunately my bid won but only by $75 less than my absolute max. On several occasions I have also lost bids using this service because I simply didn't want to pay more than other bidders...I set my max and wasn't willing to go any further. In a sense this is a good thing...with a snipe service once your bid goes in there's no time to change your bid and it eliminates the impulse to hurredly insert another bid...think of it as sort of a "fire and forget" bid. I still do the normal bidding on occasion but if it's something I'm absolutely interested in, a snipe bid is the only way to go. Lesson learned is that if you do use a sniping service make sure you really want the item and that you are prepared to pay the "stupid money" to get it. Cheers.
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I won an auction this evening. I bid via snipe. While the auction was closing, I was playing with my young daughter. Saved money, got the coin I wanted, had a great time with my daughter. Sniping is good. Thank you, Auctionstealer! Most of those who knock it haven't tried it.
  • I use Bidnapper (www.bidnapper.com) and it has always worked perfectly for me. Since I've never had any problems I have no qualms about recommending Bidnapper. image
    image
    I am not kidding,

    G99G
    I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heartimage NOT.

    People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.

    image
    Every empty box?
    C'mon!
  • BarndogBarndog Posts: 20,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I used to use auctionsniper until recently. It launched a couple of snipes with more than 45 seconds to go (I had set it for eight)...cost me the coin once and a chunk of change the other time. Plus, it missed a snipe or two altogether.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Aint nevah mist a snipe in all my time of usin Vrane!!
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