Snipe programs............someone explain?
DIMEMAN
Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
I see how the late bid against a person who is just sitting there and watching for his bid to last could work at the last second.
BUT.....................If the bid is at $30 up to the last second and your program puts you in at $31.........AND.........the guy with the $30 bid had a max of $100..........................he gets it for $32..........RIGHT!
I don't see how you could beat someone out who has a higher max. If you can it's NOT RIGHT and as far as I am concerned nothing should be allowed like this in the first place.
You should have to be sitting there bidding or have placed a max bid.
Seems like no matter where you go or what field you get into some people want to cheat and steal!
So, How does it work and is it right?
0
Comments
Works almost the same as ebay covering your bid. Goes up to whatever it takes to win, but stops at the limit you set.
<< <i>What am I missing????? >>
A 1991-D
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Ken
they check the description again and 10 minutes later they decide they can go to $50
they go away but still think they would like that item and bid $80
but still not high bidder
30 minutes until close but high bid is now $80
they may give up or bid again before close
that bidder bumped up the price $50 but could have been high bidder at $30 until close
if you don't think this happens you don't look at bid historys
O contrier mon sewer Scrooge....................I do have a 1991-D..................It is just not in it's slab yet!!!!
<< <i>O contrier mon sewer Scrooge....................I do have a 1991-D..................It is just not in it's slab yet!!!! >>
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
Let me ask this.......................If you set you snipe program for 200 OR put in a 200 max bid.............Would it achieve the same goal?
The advantage, I believe, with a snipe program is that you don't know that there is another bidder. Say you have a bid of $30 of thirty with a max bid of $40. With a couple of minutes to go, another bidder enters his bid of $31 and sees you have it at $32. He keeps putting in small increments and with a minute to go he finally gets the bid. With thirty seconds to go, he still has the bid. Same with 15 seconds left. He figures he has it and doesn't put in another bid. Snipe gets it for $42 even though the sniper is willing to pay $75. With the snipe, the bidder gets to lay in the weeds and if he's got a better chance of winning the item without someone outbidding him only by the next increment. The key is that the sniper just puts in his maximum and may win the coin at a lower price because he doesn't get into a bidding war. But he could end up paying his maximum or even losing, but he stays out of a bidding war.
You're missing that there are bidders out there that tend to bid mulitple times, changing their mind about their max bid each time to a higher amount. I had a coin drove up a hundred dollars that way reciently. A snipe placed in the last seconds would have limited the bozo to one bid instead of the three that he ultimatly placed in the last minute.
-David
For example, If a coin is at $30 and that's my bid and my max is $200 and you start your snipe with seconds to go and your snipe max is say $300, ebay and the snipe program could not go back and forth 100 times with seconds to go!
Looks like max is a better way to go unless I am missing something!
<< <i>I guess I see how the snipe option keeps you unknown until the end, BUT I would think the snipe program could run out of time if started in the laste few seconds since it could only bid as fast as ebay could handle the back and forth. Whereas the max bid could not run out of time as long as the bid didn't reach the max.
For example, If a coin is at $30 and that's my bid and my max is $200 and you start your snipe with seconds to go and your snipe max is say $300, ebay and the snipe program could not go back and forth 100 times with seconds to go!
Looks like max is a better way to go unless I am missing something! >>
you are missing something.
-bid at $30 with a minute to go (max is $200, right?)
-my snipe for $300 kicks in with three seconds left (shortest time I can elect with auctionstealer)
-I win for $202.50 or $205, whatever the increment is.
sniping eliminates the up-bidding by people who do not commit to a max and just respond to other bids. Granted, sniping doesn't beat a higher max, but does save you some money in the long run (at least it has for me.
What you're not getting is that there IS NO "back and forth." The snipe program places one single bid in the last five seconds, so they never run out of time. They go in to bid just once, to place your maximum bid, and then they're done. Once in a blue moon they may place the bid too late (after the end time for the auction has passed) due to technical difficulties, such as a slow internet server, but that kind of failure is really extremely rare.
The advantage of late bidding is that it avoids a ”price war.”
Thus, many incremental bidders bid late, but one-bid bidders tend to bid even later. Moreover, the data indicates that incremental bidding significantly diminishes with experience (as measured by the bidders' feedback numbers), while last-minute bidding increases with experience. Overall, the analysis of multiple bids supports the hypothesis that last-minute bidding arises at least in part as a response by sophisticated bidders to unsophisticated incremental bidding.
Axel Ockenfels, University of Magdeburg, Germany & Alvin E. Roth, Harvard University; "The timing of bids in Internet auctions: Market design, Bidder behavior and Artificial agents"
A salient fact that a number of researchers have noted about bidding on online auctions is that bids frequently arrive very late in the auction. For instance, Bajari and Hortacsu in their survey of eBay coin auctions report that the median winning bid is submitted after 98.3% of the total auction time period has elapsed.
Patrick Bajari, Stanford University & Ali Hortacsu, University of Chicago; “Cyberspace Auctions and Pricing Issues: A Review of Empirical Findings”
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
So, If I already had a 200 max bid in and your snipe program put your 200 max in at the last second.........I win because I was first.
Correct?
Thanks for the input.
Jon
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
Works almost the same as ebay covering your bid. Goes up to whatever it takes to win, but stops at the limit you set.>>
Why don't you just put in your max bid then, why use a snipe program?
Don't most of these sniper services charge you a fee?
Ken>>
If thier max is 1 cent over your max you still lose, so why not just place your max bid and ride out the storm!
If thier max is 1 cent over your max you still lose, so why not just place your max bid and ride out the storm!
Because they might see that your max bid might be only 1 cent over their max bid, so they might bid again and then you lose.
I'm seriously thinking of using this for the more serious auctions!
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>G99G's post is very true. Over the years I have seriously decreased my weekly bidding on an item and have waited to bid with less then 30 seconds to go. I have tried to bid with less time and sometimes I get the wonderful freeze up such as with TT. Whats the point of winning an auction all week when the only time to win an auction is at the end. There are alot and I mean alot of bidders out there that just have to be the top bidder all week. If you and him are the only 2 bidders, and he has to be winning let him win until the very end when you come in with a snipe bid...
I'm seriously thinking of using this for the more serious auctions!
Later, Paul. >>
I'll bet (no betting allowed, I know) that once you make the switch, you won't go back for auctions for the "good stuff"
I DON'T see the advantage of the snipe program over the max bid!
<< <i>I DON'T see the advantage of the snipe program over the max bid!
give it a try and report back...you will see a difference
With all respect, you should re-read my previous post in this thread of Friday April 20, 2007 10:23 PM.
Simply put, what is there about the statement that "The advantage of late bidding is that it avoids a 'price war'.” that you find hard to understand or don't agree with?
Put another way, there is no advantage of using a snipe program over a maximum bid as long as you are willing to sit by your computer and place your bid 5 seconds before the auction ends. Otherwise, the more time that you leave available before the auction is due to end the more likely it is that you will invite a "price war," i.e., end up with a higher final price as well as increase the likelihood that you may lose the auction to some other, later bidder.
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
<< <i>"I DON'T see the advantage of the snipe program over the max bid!"
With all respect, you should re-read my previous post in this thread of Friday April 20, 2007 10:23 PM.
Simply put, what is there about the statement that "The advantage of late bidding is that it avoids a 'price war'.” that you find hard to understand or don't agree with?
Put another way, there is no advantage of using a snipe program over a maximum bid as long as you are willing to sit by your computer and place your bid 5 seconds before the auction ends. Otherwise, the more time that you leave available before the auction is due to end the more likely it is that you will invite a "price war," i.e., end up with a higher final price as well as increase the likelihood that you may lose the auction to some other, later bidder. >>
sometimes logic does not matter.
Let's say me and you are going after the same coin. All week it sets at $30, which is my bid with a $200 max. You put your snipe to work at the last second with $210 as your limit.
You don't get it at $30 something.....it cost you the next increment over my $200 bid. If my max would have been $211, I would have won at $211.
The only way your snipeing can get it for you cheap......is if no one else is using a snipe AND everyone else is bidding at there keyboard and not using the max bid.
I'm not trying to be hard headed here, but the above is true.
I don't understand your last note. Was your max $200 or $211.
If you max was $200, the snipe wins. The snipe goes in at $210 and beats your $200.
If the snipe's max was $201, the snipe still wins because the snipe only comes in with one bid, $201. If the bid was at $30 and you had no max of $200, the snipe gets it for the first increment over $30. If you had a max of $200, the snipe gets it for $201 becuase the snipe's bid registers at $201 before your $200 bid even gets recognized. You only win if the snipe has a bid equal or less than yours. If the snipe has a bid of even one cent more than you, the snipe wins because he has the highest bid in before it is compared to your max. I know this sounds confusing, but it is all very logical. The highest bidder wins. You are better off sniping.
What part are you confused about? Or am I missing your point?
I just reread your last post. The snipe doesn't have to have an increment over your max, he just has to have a bid greater than your max.
Technically, he is putting in a bid higher than yours before you have the bid at your max. It would be no different than if he put in a max greater than yours 3 days earlier...except that you would then know it and you would have a chance to outbid him.. With the snipe, you don't get another chance to outbid him.
And you don't know my max bid either if it is at say 30 and my max is 200.
I see NO advantage to the snipe over a max bid, because either way you don't know how high to put your max to beat the other guy.
Scenario 1 shows a common eBay bidding pattern (Auction opens at $0.99):
USAROK max bids: $45.00 Current bid: $0.99 (USAROK)
DIMEMAN max bids: $100.00 Current bid: $46.00 (DIMEMAN)
USAROK bids: $50.00 Current Bid: $51.00 (DIMEMAN)
USAROK bids: $60.00 Current bid: $61.00 (DIMEMAN)
USAROK bids: $75.00 Current bid: $76.00 (DIMEMAN)
USAROK bids: $95.00 Current bid: $96.00 (DIMEMAN)
Auction ends with DIMEMAN winning at $96.00
Scenario 2 (Auction opens at $0.99):
USAROK max bids: $45.00 Current bid: $0.99 (USAROK)
DIMEMAN Snipe max bids: $100.00 with 3 seconds left and wins the auction for $46.00. I have no time to raise my bid.
DIMEMAN saves $50.00 by sniping
Good example.
mansco
Excellent example. I wish I had thought of it!
G99G
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
Interesting BAJJERFAN should say that, because when I've really wanted to win an auction (although I must admit I don't recall having done this to buy a coin) I have on numerous occasions "set [my] snipe amount to the stupid money setting," and yet I have never once (so far) had to "pay stupid money for the privilege." Even under those circumstances it almost never happens that two people are both prepared to pay up ridiculously big bucks for the same item in the same auction.
Of course, BAJJERFAN gave the best advice: the ultimate protection is "don't set your snipe bid any higher than you are willing to pay."
G99G (BTW, I love that abbreviation, "G99G" -- Thanks for the nickname, DIMEMAN!!)
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
I am not kidding,
G99G
I collect 20-slab, blue plastic PCGS coin boxes. To me, every empty box is like a beating heart
People come up sometimes, and ask me, G99G, are you kidding? And I answer them no, I am NOT KIDDING.
Every empty box?
C'mon!
Aint nevah mist a snipe in all my time of usin Vrane!!