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Kinky ducat question

BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
Does anyone know anything about ducats? This one is from 1612, but I can't figure out where exactly that it's from. I believe it's from the Netherlands, but it looks a bit different than the other 1612 ducats that I can find on the internet in that the lettering on the obverse is different. This one says CONCORDIA.PAR C RES. FRI. - the others that I can find have a slightly different legend. This one has the letter C between the legs of the figure...I believe that the otheras have the letter P in the same spot. There is a small rearing lion after the FRI. - is this the mintmark? Other than that, the coin has decent detail, but appears to have been bent a few times and it's a little kinky. image The reverse is rotated about 45 degrees counterclockwise. Can anyone lend some insight into the coin's orgin and value? Thanks!


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"Have a nice day!"

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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,149 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe the FRI indicates it is from the Dutch province of Friesland.

    If so, it is KM#13, struck in .986 fine gold, with a bullion weight of .1109 oz.

    The 1612 Friesland ducat catalogs for $80 VG/$150 F/$275 VF/$375 XF in the 3rd Edition Krause. (Which probably lags behind considerably, as I have seen a number of coins with catalog values lower than their current bullion value.)

    Expect to pay (or get) more for it online. The crease in it is a detracting factor but not a serious one in my opinion- such are common on thin hammered gold coins like this, particularly when you get back into the 17th century and earlier.

    I sold a 1597 Zeeland ducat in an ANACS EF-something slab a while back. Forget what I got for it, but it went to a forum member.

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

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    DesertRatDesertRat Posts: 1,791 ✭
    Rob, your new icon is throwing me off! image
    The Musical Road
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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,149 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PS- the rampant lion mintmark fits. It is indeed from Friesland.

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

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    lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 45,149 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Rob, your new icon is throwing me off! image >>



    We're taunting goldrush00013 over on the MD forum, for his new 'shroom icon. image

    Plus, the opportunity to simultaneously sow confusion and hilarity over here on the Darkside was too good to pass up. image

    Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.

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    BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    I thought that maybe it was Fiesland too, but the legend on the coin is different than those that I've seen and the rearing lion was not on the others that I've seen.
    "Have a nice day!"
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    GDJMSPGDJMSP Posts: 799 ✭
    I posted a response to this over at Coin People, I will here as well for the benefit of others. The coin is a bit odd, the placement and style of the legends is different than it should be. The design is different than it should be - just about everything is different in a subtle way. And that in itself is unusual for they took great care to make all of the coins as close to identical as they could.

    That being said I can't say definitively that the coin is not genuine, but I do suspect it isn't. Weigh and measure the coin, that's a start. But it will not confirm the coin is authentic - only an in hand exam by someone who knows will do that.

    Here are pics of a genuine example, same date and mint for comparison -

    image


    image
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    BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    The size and weight of the coin check out. Anyone have a link to someone in the Netherlands who knows enough about these to tell me if there are any varieties or fakes known for the issue?
    "Have a nice day!"
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    GDJMSPGDJMSP Posts: 799 ✭


    << <i>The size and weight of the coin check out. Anyone have a link to someone in the Netherlands who knows enough about these to tell me if there are any varieties or fakes known for the issue? >>



    You might try and contact Fred G. van den Haak - he knows more about Netherlands coinage than just about anyone in the world - shop@reyes.stanford.edu
    knowledge ........ share it
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