NEWP Conder Token Lion 1796

theboz11 · April 9, 2007 5:31PM

Warwickshire DH-20 Lion Sleeping in a cave. EX. Dr. Richard Doty collection, and not a mark on it. The fields a mirror and a beautiful chocolate brown.

Teg · April 9, 2007 8:49PM

Hi,
good looking token.
I have just read "The Soho Mint and the Industrialization of Money", by Doty. Well worth a read.
Is this token illustrated in his book? - I can't remember.

Teg

theboz11 · April 9, 2007 9:02PM

Haven't read the book, but I am sure it is possible.

rwyarmch · April 9, 2007 10:14PM

Lovely token and design!

koincollect · April 10, 2007 6:30AM

Like the design..especially the wreath.

Stork · April 10, 2007 7:12AM

That's the kind of token that could turn one into a conder collector--very beautiful with a fascinating provenence--definitely qualifies for a NN (neat newp)!

Cathy

lordmarcovan · April 10, 2007 2:10PM

<< That's the kind of token that could turn one into a conder collector >>

NO!!!

I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens

There. Now, if I chant that to myself long enough, maybe I will resist a little bit longer. Y'all haven't lured me in yet, but I gotta admit it's been a tough battle.

theboz11 · April 10, 2007 11:33PM

Awe come on lordm, just one.

lordmarcovan · April 10, 2007 11:51PM

Actually... I already have... one.

Holed, of course- on my Holey Coin Vest. It's got Elizabeth I on the front of it.

laurentyvan · April 11, 2007 12:01AM

My gawsh, dripping in liquid and shiny chocolate! I hope Hershey is taking notes.

DesertRat · April 11, 2007 12:59AM

Stunning!!

Writersblock · April 11, 2007 5:29AM

<< Is this token illustrated in his book? - I can't remember. >>

No, it was struck by Kempson not Boulton. Almost all of the coins, tokens, and medals shown in the book are products of either the Soho mint or mints that Boulton sold to other countries.

I would also recommend the Doty book! It is great. I've read it twice, parts of it three times or more. Boulton's difficulties with Pierre Droz are very amusing (Here in the US we went to great lengths to try and get Droz to come here to America to run our fledgling mint. We should thank our luck stars that at the last moment he decided not ot come.), and the headaches he had trying to sell, set up and get operating, Mints in what were basicly third world countries. (What do you do when you sell a country a mint, ship 320 tons of machinery across the ocean, haul it miles overland and then find that the site the buyer has selected for you to set up this STEAM powered mint has no water supply? Or that they expect you to use the water in the local sewage ditch?)

I've purchased three copies of it so far. (First one for myself, liked it so much I bought a copy for a Conder token collector friend of mine. Then when I decided to re-read it I couldn't find my copy, it's packed away in a box somewhere, so I bought a third copy.) It even got me started on a new collection. A set of all of the coins/tokens produced by the Soho Mint.

<< It's got Elizabeth I on the front of it. >>

Probably Sussex 15 although 16 and 17 are also possible.

theboz11 · April 11, 2007 5:56AM

Beautiful. Do you happen to know the mintage on mine.

oldshep · April 11, 2007 6:35AM

You Know, I gotta say it.....YOU SUCK.

Each post is nicer then the last, drool

Shep

cosmicdebris · April 11, 2007 9:34AM

I always loved this token.

By the way Writersblock's icon is an image of the example of this token I used to own.

theboz11 · April 11, 2007 6:59PM

<< I always loved this token.

By the way Writersblock's icon is an image of the example of this token I used to own. >>

I thought that it look familiar

cosmicdebris · April 12, 2007 12:47AM

<< 

<< I always loved this token.

By the way Writersblock's icon is an image of the example of this token I used to own. >>

I thought that it look familiar

>>

Bigger image

laurentyvan · April 12, 2007 1:24AM

It's interesting to see the same token at opposite ends of the appearance spectrum, both delightful to view.

Which is better? Unfair question, each of them trumping the other in various ways. Thanks to both posters for this fortunate forum confluence.

Writersblock · April 12, 2007 3:51AM

Don't have a mintage figure. Kempson's records, if he kept any, are not available. But the Warwickshire 20 was struck for sale to collectors during the collecting fad in the 1790's so the number struck was probably fairly large (probably at least several hundred pieces) and since they went to collectors they are available today in high grade. Dalton & Hammer considered to to be a common token, and Dr Sriro lists 21 different examples seen in his records. That's what the POP # is at the top of the image of the Sussex 15 I posted. (Dr Sriro has seen 92 different examples of it. The Sussex 15 is one of the most common Conder tokens.) To give some comparison, for Warwickshire 38a which had a mintage of 200, he has seen 16 specimens. So I think we could probably speculate a mintage of about 400 tokens for Warwickshire 20. These penny tokens were not made for circulation and they tend to have very low mintage but a high percentage survive and are sold frequently so they are often available.

I know how to hook Lord M. I'll have to get him an example of one of the Middlesex Burchell's tokens and get him started on those.

These tokens were SUPPOSED to have a hole in them and were more of an advertising piece than a halfpenny token (But they did circulate as halfpence because of their size and weight.) They were attached by a ribbon to packages of Burchell's Worm medication. There are 16 different varieties. (He must have sold a LOT of worm medicine. Makes you wonder what was in it?)

rwyarmch · April 12, 2007 4:29AM

I always chuckle when I think how gullible folks were 200 years ago to buy something
like the Anodyne Necklace. It's a shame they didn't have access to today's Iodized Bracelet!!

olmanjon · April 12, 2007 4:31AM

I have one of the middlesex 181 national series of condor tokens. I beleive it is the one with the coper core with silver plate. Value?

TwoKopeiki · April 12, 2007 5:04AM

I think I need to start my own "I will not buy conder tokens" chant ....

rwyarmch · April 12, 2007 6:31AM

Olmanjon- Pictures and/or your appraisal of condition might get you a decent estimate!

olmanjon · April 13, 2007 3:15AM

I would love to show you the coin, but as a newbie I haven't figured out how to get the scanned picture into this format. Any help greatly appreaciated. Olmanjon

lordmarcovan · April 13, 2007 3:18AM

<< I know how to hook Lord M. I'll have to get him an example of one of the Middlesex Burchell's tokens and get him started on those. >>

Very cool. And fascinating.

But nope, won't work. No pictorial elements to the design on that one, poorly-placed hole, and no date. Otherwise, might be tempting.

Get me one like that one rwyarmch just posted, though with or without a hole, and I might just start waving some frilly pompoms and chanting, "I love Conder tokens! I love Conder tokens!" over and over again. That is awesome!

I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens

(plugs fingers into ears)

Lalalalaa- I can't hear you!

Writersblock · April 13, 2007 5:18AM

<< I always chuckle when I think how gullible folks were 200 years ago to buy something like the Anodyne Necklace >>

Don't chuckle too much, thy still do a booming business in copper braclets for arthritis and just recently on TV I saw commercials for some "amazing magnetic bracelets" which were basicly a silver or chome plated pre-stressed piece of steel cable that ended in a small ball at either end. They were being sold as a health aid and priced at $19.95 each. I suspect there are still a large number of gullible people out there. (Just Google Magnetic Bracelets and look at all the offers.)

<< But nope, won't work. No pictorial elements to the design on that one, poorly-placed hole, and no date. >>

Well I tried, we'll just have to keep showing you more neat pieces until we break down your will to resist.

rhound1977 · April 16, 2007 6:08PM

<< 

<< 

I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens
I will not collect Conder tokens

(plugs fingers into ears)

Lalalalaa- I can't hear you! >>

I said the same thing for a long time, so far only one.... nice pieces....

clarkbar04 · April 16, 2007 6:11PM

Stunning!!!!

Stork · April 17, 2007 7:31AM

<< I think I need to start my own "I will not buy conder tokens" chant .... >>

It won't work

-- I'm up to 5 of them now. I have NO REASON to buy them, except they are cool and many have the mythologic beasties on them.

Sigh.

Cathy

theboz11 · April 17, 2007 6:35PM

<< 

<< I think I need to start my own "I will not buy conder tokens" chant .... >>

It won't work

-- I'm up to 5 of them now. I have NO REASON to buy them, except they are cool and many have the mythologic beasties on them.

Sigh.

Cathy >>

Did you know that mythological creatures were the ancients answers to the finding of fossil bones. They arranged the bones together in the wrong order and came up with skeletons that resemble what we now refer to as mythological beings. The Cyclops was actually a Mammoth rearranged.

NEWP Conder Token Lion 1796

Comments