PSA Flip Auction on Ebay
mcholke
Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
Collecting Tony Perez PSA and Rookie Baseball PSA
0
mcholke
Posts: 1,000 ✭✭
Comments
Collector of Pittsburgh Pirates cards for a slightly less stupid reason.
My Pirates Collection
<< <i>Ebay auction link
No good can come from this auction >>
I agree. Hopefully PSA will contact eBay and the boom will drop on this one.
My Auctions
Bueller? Bueller?
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
That wouldnt prevent someone from slabbing something and selling it to an unsuspecting, but its a start I guess
Ive always wondered how many cards on that have been graded have been lost from fire or flooding etc. How many cards were in New Orleans during Katrina that are gone, how many cards are lost by fire each year, how many are broken by disgruntled wives, etc.
interesting
Go Phillies
Steve
Arthur
Lee
He's got a lot of raw cards now on ebay - my guess is he threw this auction on there not to make any money on it, but to sort of "con" people into thinking his raw cards may have formally been in PSA slabs. I doubt very much if this con will work, but perhaps he thinks it might.
<< <i>Really pathetic beyond words.
He's got a lot of raw cards now on ebay - my guess is he threw this auction on there not to make any money on it, but to sort of "con" people into thinking his raw cards may have formally been in PSA slabs. I doubt very much if this con will work, but perhaps he thinks it might. Another stinkin' weasel card dealer. >>
It makes me think that he resubmitted and maybe didn't get what once was. Instead of submitting again they're being sold raw.
Arthur
<< <i>
<< <i>Really pathetic beyond words.
He's got a lot of raw cards now on ebay - my guess is he threw this auction on there not to make any money on it, but to sort of "con" people into thinking his raw cards may have formally been in PSA slabs. I doubt very much if this con will work, but perhaps he thinks it might. Another stinkin' weasel card dealer. >>
It makes me think that he resubmitted and maybe didn't get what once was. Instead of submitting again they're being sold raw.
Arthur >>
Could be - I took a look at the Rose and Yaz 64 and they looked to be the typical ebay overgrade but not all that terribly bad - the cards don't seem trimmed. Not the cards I'm looking for right now but if I was, I'd bid on them at the right price.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
couldn't he be just a seller?
a collector that sells?
I doubt very much he is a dealer.
Steve
<< <i>SteveK what makes you think he is a dealer?
couldn't he be just a seller?
a collector that sells?
I doubt very much he is a dealer.
Steve >>
Cut me a break will ya Steve?! What am I supposed to do keep track of every F*ing card dealer on ebay for crying out loud? He has a lot of cards listed...and I edited the "comment" so you don't have a heart attack. My Phillies just got beat again and are now 1 - 6 so I'm in a bad F*ing mood!
Steve
I know he is shady for selling the tabs but that doesnt mean he is also shady with his cards ~ he could just think it isnt that big of a deal... What die hard PSA hounds and some john doe feel about the severity of this could be dramatically different!
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
Good job FavreFan. My only fear is that some unsuspecting buyer tries to register these things and gets caught holding the bag.
Nice work.
DD
And only if it became a major, huge , monstrous, humungous problem.
Very good point also. I do take cards out of slabs on occasion and display them raw. There's nothing like a quality raw card in 1" screwdown.
75 BENCH
<< <i>That's good Stevek maybe next time you will THINK before you ridicule a group of people, (without proof) so, do the same and give them a freaking break!
Steve >>
It wasn't ridiculing a group of people Steve, it was ridiculing a group of weasels. On ebay the percentage of card dealers who are weasels is dam close to 100%, with exceptions such as Steve Hart and some others. Brick & mortar the weasel percentage may be a little less, but the weasel percentage is still very high.
Anyone who doesn't follow strict "buyer beware" procedures when dealing with almost all baseball card dealers, is setting themselves up to be rooked. And you know that's the truth Steve, whether you want to admit it or not - case closed.
Steve
<< <i>What an ignorant thing to say SteveK
Steve >>
Interview a number of baseball card collectors and the vast majority would agree that most baseball card dealers are weasels. Why would they agree? - Because it's the truth, that's why. That's not ignorant - that's telling it like it is.
Ignorant would be accepting a typical baseball card dealer's grading of their stock of baseball cards as accurate. You know Steve...the cards they list as NM that they know are usually EXMT at best, etc., etc. This is just one example of weasel behavior. The "weasel" name for most card dealers becoming clearer to you now?
Collecting Tony Perez PSA and Rookie Baseball PSA
regarding how to "create counterfeit merchandise."
I am a bit surprised that EBAY did not yank this one.
If PSA is not active in VERO, they should be. I am not at all interested
in having the value of my PSA slabs diminished even by the mere
possibility that someone might be openly selling the parts required
to make fake slabs.
The fact is there is virtually no legitimate use that anyone can
put loose flips to.
Not a huge deal but I did want to add my two cents. Not coming down on you so please dont take this as an attack ~ I dont know you and you could be completely opposite to what it seems, but it does seem as though you are being extremely pessimistic and in doing so have clumped pretty much everyone together unfairly. There are of course people like you have mentioned ~ but I dont think it’s the majority by any means. I'll try to explain...
If you take an attitude of "I want to buy and they are there to sell to me" then I can completely understand where this attitude comes from; if you take an "I am a collector and just have fun collecting" attitude then I feel you might have a dramatically different experience. I have never ~ and I mean never ~ met a card shop owner who wouldnt give you deals or work with you on things. If you go into a baseball store like you are walking into a sports bar then I think you will also find this to be the case, and honestly you should want to anyway ~ they are people who are almost always collectors just like you and they have (probable) years worth of experience with people who like to build their collections! I've actually been present to see a dealer buy something off one of the many people bringing in things to sell and after the person walked out turn to me and say "here" because he knew I was an Indians fan. Its not always about making a profit, and you might find that the people behind the counter stop acting like a cashier if you treat them like more than a cashier.
As far as internet "dealers"? What person selling anything is going to try and sell do so by saying "this is a real piece of garbage, but I'm selling it anyway"? I'm guessing you will answer 'no one' as it makes no since what so ever. Grading is extremely subjective though and generally a raw card will always be given a better grade by the average card collector than PSA will hand out ~ even so many on this board are very unhappy when they get a card back that "should have been a...". People always do this with their stuff; dealer or not everyone likes to think they have something really special! Seeing as though I do buy so many cards off the internet I have found that the people on the other side of Ebay are just like you and me. I take their grading with a grain of salt and instead look for items with large photos where I can get a better idea myself of the condition if I'm that worried about the shape. I also realize if a person gives it a grading of their own its probably safe to assume that the card will grade one notch lower than they described ~ but thats not because they are trying to be a weasel about anything! Contact the seller and inquire if you have a question ~ and dont just say "is this really NM because I dont want it if it isnt", instead start a relationship and let them know what type of person you are...
Tell them "I see you have _____ listed as NRMT and I am attempting to complete a set in that condition, but I'm a really harsh grader and I just wanted to see if you feel as though I will be happy with the card. Grading is so subjective and because of being such a harsh grader myself I just wanted to try and get an idea of your scale." ~ they will let you know! Infact the best thing to do is even expand on that and make arrangements to possibly buy even more! Include something like "If you dont think you are as harsh of a grader as I am on this card, do you possibly have others you feel might make my grade that I may be interested in?" I cant tell you how amazing people are when you start talking to them ~ either in a store or on the net! I have found multiple people from Ebay where after winning an item I have let them know that I made the purchase because I am a Tribe fan, and after inquiring about other items have found them offering to add other cards at prices below what they have been going for recently or when I get the package they threw a little something extra inside. If you talk to them you will reach the collector in them, and in doing so you will build a relationship which will get you past the Cashier/Purchaser level and into the "hey can we help eachother out" zone. Remember, people dont open packs after packs after packs unless they love doing so, and since that is the case there is a collector in each and every one of them ~ relate to that collector and you will find a friend!
Now, have I ever bought anything I wasnt satisfied with? Sure! But on those rare occasions I contact them and kindly let them know while including "but I still want more, what else ys got that I might like
Man, this got long... just kind of typed up so quickly
Oh and remember this, how many dealers probably think “all customers just want to get as much as they can get as cheap as they can”? If they are only treated like a cashier, never given credit when they do something nice and only really hear when people aren’t completely satisfied because of their over exaggerated expectations, what would you expect from them? Start trying to bridge the gap between these “weasel dealers” a little bit and you might find its not that big to begin with… Like in the case of this seller, we have no idea what might be in his head! It really could be so innocent and all of a sudden with little to no knowledge we can make him out into one of the worst people in the world on this board ~ or we can try to understand what he might be thinking and maybe give him the benefit of the doubt since it doesn’t seem anything really fishy is going on with his other items…
Shea
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
<< <i>Those flips are not as dangerous as these.
Did you just get busy with PhotoShop or is there actual complete shells like this out there?
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)
///////////////////////////////////////////
Interesting essay.
I tend to agree, in this case. I think the guy was just
not thinking.
BUT, what the guy did was VERY stupid. It is not even
in the same ballpark of stupid as selling empty wrappers.
There are actually some legitimate collectors of wrappers;
there are NO legitimate uses for loose PSA flips.
Someone should talk to him and make it clear that his
listing was not acceptable and should not be repeated.
Not sure why he's selling used flips here, but who in their right mind was going to buy them with the intention of trying to then scam someone on some off grade commons and stars that aren't worth much anyway? Are scammers that desperate for new ways to screw unsuspecting buyers.
If he was selling a '86 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 flip or something along those lines, then maybe it's a different story.
Anyway, the auction ended. It's over.
like I said, ignorance.
Steve
<< <i>There is a prohibition in the EBAY TOS against selling supplies and instructions
regarding how to "create counterfeit merchandise."
I am a bit surprised that EBAY did not yank this one.
If PSA is not active in VERO, they should be. I am not at all interested
in having the value of my PSA slabs diminished even by the mere
possibility that someone might be openly selling the parts required
to make fake slabs.
The fact is there is virtually no legitimate use that anyone can
put loose flips to. >>
Auctions don't typically get pulled unless they are reported by someone.
<< <i>Steve,
Not a huge deal but I did want to add my two cents. Not coming down on you so please dont take this as an attack ~ I dont know you and you could be completely opposite to what it seems, but it does seem as though you are being extremely pessimistic and in doing so have clumped pretty much everyone together unfairly. There are of course people like you have mentioned ~ but I dont think it’s the majority by any means. I'll try to explain...
If you take an attitude of "I want to buy and they are there to sell to me" then I can completely understand where this attitude comes from; if you take an "I am a collector and just have fun collecting" attitude then I feel you might have a dramatically different experience. I have never ~ and I mean never ~ met a card shop owner who wouldnt give you deals or work with you on things. If you go into a baseball store like you are walking into a sports bar then I think you will also find this to be the case, and honestly you should want to anyway ~ they are people who are almost always collectors just like you and they have (probable) years worth of experience with people who like to build their collections! I've actually been present to see a dealer buy something off one of the many people bringing in things to sell and after the person walked out turn to me and say "here" because he knew I was an Indians fan. Its not always about making a profit, and you might find that the people behind the counter stop acting like a cashier if you treat them like more than a cashier.
As far as internet "dealers"? What person selling anything is going to try and sell do so by saying "this is a real piece of garbage, but I'm selling it anyway"? I'm guessing you will answer 'no one' as it makes no since what so ever. Grading is extremely subjective though and generally a raw card will always be given a better grade by the average card collector than PSA will hand out ~ even so many on this board are very unhappy when they get a card back that "should have been a...". People always do this with their stuff; dealer or not everyone likes to think they have something really special! Seeing as though I do buy so many cards off the internet I have found that the people on the other side of Ebay are just like you and me. I take their grading with a grain of salt and instead look for items with large photos where I can get a better idea myself of the condition if I'm that worried about the shape. I also realize if a person gives it a grading of their own its probably safe to assume that the card will grade one notch lower than they described ~ but thats not because they are trying to be a weasel about anything! Contact the seller and inquire if you have a question ~ and dont just say "is this really NM because I dont want it if it isnt", instead start a relationship and let them know what type of person you are...
Tell them "I see you have _____ listed as NRMT and I am attempting to complete a set in that condition, but I'm a really harsh grader and I just wanted to see if you feel as though I will be happy with the card. Grading is so subjective and because of being such a harsh grader myself I just wanted to try and get an idea of your scale." ~ they will let you know! Infact the best thing to do is even expand on that and make arrangements to possibly buy even more! Include something like "If you dont think you are as harsh of a grader as I am on this card, do you possibly have others you feel might make my grade that I may be interested in?" I cant tell you how amazing people are when you start talking to them ~ either in a store or on the net! I have found multiple people from Ebay where after winning an item I have let them know that I made the purchase because I am a Tribe fan, and after inquiring about other items have found them offering to add other cards at prices below what they have been going for recently or when I get the package they threw a little something extra inside. If you talk to them you will reach the collector in them, and in doing so you will build a relationship which will get you past the Cashier/Purchaser level and into the "hey can we help eachother out" zone. Remember, people dont open packs after packs after packs unless they love doing so, and since that is the case there is a collector in each and every one of them ~ relate to that collector and you will find a friend!
Now, have I ever bought anything I wasnt satisfied with? Sure! But on those rare occasions I contact them and kindly let them know while including "but I still want more, what else ys got that I might like
Man, this got long... just kind of typed up so quickly
Oh and remember this, how many dealers probably think “all customers just want to get as much as they can get as cheap as they can”? If they are only treated like a cashier, never given credit when they do something nice and only really hear when people aren’t completely satisfied because of their over exaggerated expectations, what would you expect from them? Start trying to bridge the gap between these “weasel dealers” a little bit and you might find its not that big to begin with… Like in the case of this seller, we have no idea what might be in his head! It really could be so innocent and all of a sudden with little to no knowledge we can make him out into one of the worst people in the world on this board ~ or we can try to understand what he might be thinking and maybe give him the benefit of the doubt since it doesn’t seem anything really fishy is going on with his other items…
Shea >>
Shea - I don't mind your comments at all. And your comments are valid. I come on the forum here to talk some cards, talk some sports, maybe expose a few scammers, and learn more about the hobby.
I also sell cards on ebay, I'm not listing my account here but I've sold cards to some people on the forum here and they've been very satisfied. They don't know it's me and that's the way I prefer it. I don't consider myself a dealer - but I do enjoy buying and selling cards on ebay.
A number of my ebay feedback comments, which is 100% positive, basically say "better than described" - honestly...my cards weren't "better than described" - they were just honestly described and accurately graded. So that clearly tells me that the other dealers they bought from weren't describing their cards accurately. And I know they weren't. Why? Because every, except for one dealer I have bought from on ebay, has NOT accurately described their cards. I once bought a "near set" of 1961 Topps supposedly NM from a large dealer, missing about 20 cards. Paid a good dollar for it - well yes there were some NM cards but none of the keys were NM - in fact the #577 Aaron All-Star was in GOOD condition at best - that's right - the scan looked NM with nice corners, but the card was badly creased and had brutal staining on the back - huge blotches - this was from a "respected" F*ing dealer with over 3,500 feedback. Yes, I kept the cards anyway - probably shouldn't have but this SOB took almost 4 weeks to deliver and I didn't want to chance sending them back and losing the cards and my money as I paid with a check - he didn't accept PayPal. Interesting about a year later he did get Narued, permanently.
My best ebay experiences have actually been buying from non-collectors who are selling off their inherited or "husband's cards - it's tough to spot the scammers from the real situations but that's what I enjoy trying to do and have gotten some nice cards as a result.
I'm not saying don't buy from dealers, of course not, I'm just saying that we need to be aware of their nature - of which my opinion is their nature is that of weasels. They'll treat you nice if they see that will result in their best opportunity for a sale. But if they see an opportunity to conduct business in a manner of rooking people - most of them are going to do it. One of the most "honest" card shop dealers I know right now has a raw #200 62 Mantle in his showcase that he has listed in Excellent condition that trust me...would be a PSA 1 or 2 at best - that to me is being a weasel - that's not "subjective" grading - that's clearly overgrading and being a stinkin' weasel - and this is an "honest" dealer - LOL
Go into most card shops - most don't even sell graded cards or have very few. Why? We know the reasons - because they are weasels - they don't want to get a card graded and have it sit there in a slab listed Good, when they can wait for an ignorant buyer to walk-in and pitch the card as excellent and give the buyer a "bargain" off the "Excellent" book price - in which the selling price is way over book for what the card is really worth. And you know that most card dealers operate this way - that is weasel behavior - plain and simple - you know it and WinPitcher knows it.
I'm not equating the two but it's just like walking into a used car lot - buyer beware - and it's buyer beware when walking into a card shop or buying from a card dealer on ebay. There oughta be a federal law that all card shops post a mandatory sign saying "Beware of the Weasel" (okay - that's a joke) but I'm almost not kidding.
Anyway - this thread is giving me a headache and WinPitcher is giving me a headache so this will be my final comment in this thread. Enjoyed the chat even though I know no minds were changed, but if some newbie lurkers here gained some knowledge of knowing not to fully trust the majority of card dealers, and to exhibit caution when buying from them, to gain knowledge about the hobby and trust your own judgement when buying, and not rely on the judgement of a dealer who is trying to make as much money as possible off you, then that is good enough for me.
Steve
i am not a weasel
<< <i>Did you just get busy with PhotoShop or is there actual complete shells like this out there? >>
Nope, no photoshop or digital enhancements...it's as real as it gets.
....this is nothing, you should see the rest!
<< <i>As a lawyer I can say it sucks to have to always defend my profession. Now I can add baseball card dealers to the list of people that may be less trustworthy than my profession!? Actually they would be the first ones since even used car dealers are above lawyers so they say!
Hey - I'm a salesman, so I fully understand snide remarks.
And just to make it clear...in no way shape or form am I anti-card dealer or even anti-lawyer. I call many salesmen "weasels" as well, and as a longtime sales rep I have also sometimes exhibited "weasel" behavior. Salesmen have a reputation perhaps on a par, maybe worse, than lawyers? Nah...can't be that bad can it?
I'm not equating the two but it's just like walking into a used car lot - buyer beware - and it's buyer beware when walking into a card shop or buying from a card dealer on ebay. There oughta be a federal law that all card shops post a mandatory sign saying "Beware of the Weasel" (okay - that's a joke) but I'm almost not kidding.
... Well regarding going into a card shop and not seeing graded cards I think it might have more to do with this:
A) cards will often times sit for months and months without being sold in card shops ~ thats money they paid up front for return which may be a long ways away. The worst thing possible for a retail establishment is to have inventory costing you money by just sitting on the shelf ~ you pay to house it, you run the risk of damage/theft, and it takes away from other items you could have in its place that might sell.
C) is it good business? Do all people want graded cards? What if someone wants it to add to an album or display it in 1" screwdowns with similar cards? If you graded a card is it more likely to increase sales or exclude a portion of your customers?
Now I do understand the "buyer beware" mentality, but that is true in everything in life! Want to know who the real weasels are? Prada, Channel, LV etc ~ they sell a $5 product for hundreds of dollars because its trendy and people are stupid enough to buy it... Its called sales ~ and its the world we live in! Calling a "VG" card "EX" isnt a con, its the old 'always thinking what you have is the best' mentality that I mentioned before ~ and why would anyone buy something just because someone else called it this or that anyway...
If you want to say "Buyer Beware" just say "Buy what you want instead of buying what people tell you you should buy" and leave it at that. If a person wants an item they will buy that item no matter if its marked NMT or Poor; if you dont think its worth it then you pass it up ~ that simple. Is the person who buys it a sucker ~ NO! They bought something they wanted and have a nice piece for their collection which they will cherish, the people who passed it up because they felt "well its just not quite as good of condition as I would want it to be for the extra few dollars" and in turn dont have one are the true suckers ~ they were too worried about overpaying a small amount and instead will continue to desire something they dont have! The thing is, money is so fleeting... If you spend an extra $5 today will you really remember it tomorrow? If you add a cool card to your collection then you will remember ~ you will still have it! The 5-dollar bill would have just been wasted on a soda and a hotdog at AMPM anyway...
In closing, just buy what you want. Dont want it ~ dont buy it! Dont like ---insert random card from random seller---, thats your problem ~ but please dont ruin it for someone else because it might be their pride and joy. Is a person trying to make a living a weasel? Well unless they are taking $2 cards and marking um $500 while offering no Beckett to show its real worth then no! You know what it books for, you know how you would grade it and if you dont like it oh well ~ thats not the sellers problem.
Currently searching for 05 Upper Deck Origins & Old Judge Autos #/5 (Feller, Hafner, V.Martinez & Rosen)
and 06 SP Authentic “By The Numbers” Letter Autos (Sabathia, Hafner, Sowers, V.Martinez & Lee)