PSA grades are finally in on 80's junkie's packs

wolfbear

I was in for 2 lots of the last football rip.
Gary refunded me fully without me even asking him to do so.
I couldn't send the packs back to him at the time because I had already sent some of them off to PSA for grading.

The grades finally posted today.
I sent in 2 - 1976's, 2 - 1981's, 2 - 1984's, and a 1986 from the rip.
They all graded 7 or 8 except for one of the 1981 packs which was "Not Holdered, Altered"

Those were the most valuable packs. Not really sure what to make of this

jamesryanbell

So this 80'sjunkie guy is who I've been hearing about.....supposedly hugely ripped off a bunch of people with fake packs?

julen23

ty

julen

Boopotts

Is anyone else curious as to how many response posts this thread would have by now if all those packs had come back altered?

WinPitcher

No not really, as it has only been around 2 hrs since Paul posted.

FWIW having 1 come back altered is proof that 80's did in fact send out tampered packs. Who tampered them is anyone's guess.

Right now Paul's dilemna is what to do with the refunded money he is not entitled to. Possibly pass it on to someone who is still owed?

Dunno.

Steve

pjray55

I agree that 1 identified as being tampered with is too many and even though the others came back with a grade doesnt mean they couldnt have been from a cherry picked lot.

kadokakid

Boo

Couldn't agree more with your comments. Granted he admitted to some shady dealings, but the witch hunt got way out of control imo.


Peace

Doug

nightcrawler

toppscollector flew and gary knew...


Turk 182

jmbkb4

<< <i>Is anyone else curious as to how many response posts this thread would have by now if all those packs had come back altered? >>



This is an overtly relativistic response. Of course not all were tampered with. But most were -- especially the expensive packs.

Onlypsahockey

No one ever stated all packs were resealed.

The guy ripped the board off to the tune of 14K, (it would have been 39K if Zef and Steve Hart didn't squeeze him out of the 75 mini deal).

If you guys want to exonerate him go ahead. Count me out.

JMO, Bob C.

CDsNuts

I'm over it, but yeah, I'm surprised more didn't come back as tampered with. Still, if he spread the reseals around evenly, he could've easily resealed a half box of each year.

Lee

detroitfan2

Somewhere on these boards I thought Gary came clean about where each of the football packs came from, but I can't seem to find it.

Does anyone remember where the 81's supposedly came from? Were those from BBCE?

stown

<< <i>Boo

Couldn't agree more with your comments. Granted he admitted to some shady dealings, but the witch hunt got way out of control imo.


Peace

Doug >>



Wow.

Yeah, too bad the "witch hunt" happened because he was about to scam more people with another case rip.

And he didn't admit to tampering packs. In fact, he flatly denied the accusation. With a pack coming back as altered, he was exposed in yet another lie.

But if you want to continue defending Gary, by all means go ahead.

Boopotts

<< <i>

<< <i>Is anyone else curious as to how many response posts this thread would have by now if all those packs had come back altered? >>



This is an overtly relativistic response. Of course not all were tampered with. But most were -- especially the expensive packs. >>



This assumes that the larger point I was getting at was that Gary either a) tampered with none of the packs, or b) tampered with fewer of them than most people suspected. Neither of these assumptions are necessarily correct.

zef204

Given the SMALL sample here of packs it is inconclusive as to the magnitude of the resealed packs. In this case, 14% of wolf's packs came back resealed.

Even if everyone had one "tampered" pack it is too many.

jmbkb4

<< <i>Given the SMALL sample here of packs it is inconclusive as to the magnitude of the resealed packs. In this case, 14% of wolf's packs came back resealed.

Even if everyone had one "tampered" pack it is too many. >>



This was my point earlier. It is -- admittedly -- gloriously simplistic to state that Gary is WRONG for sealing only some packs, and there is no measure of wrongness. He was wrong and he should refund every individual who "bought" from him.

nightcrawler

<< <i>toppscollector flew and gary knew...


Turk 182 >>





Another board member informed me "the director of Turk 182 died yesterday in a car crash (hit by a drunk driver)."

I had no idea this happened??? But I've enjoyed twisting that "TURK 182" thing around ever since that movie came out.

Thought I'd mention that my comment was just a moronic irony.

Halves

<< <i>

Another board member informed me "the director of Turk 182 died yesterday in a car crash (hit by a drunk driver)."
>>



Yes, sadly, it's true. He was also the director of the classic 'a christmas story'. Story can be found here.

Stingray

<< <i>

<< <i>

Another board member informed me "the director of Turk 182 died yesterday in a car crash (hit by a drunk driver)."
>>



Yes, sadly, it's true. He was also the director of the classic 'a christmas story'. Story can be found here. >>



And the famous Porky's series!!

kcballboy

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

Another board member informed me "the director of Turk 182 died yesterday in a car crash (hit by a drunk driver)."
>>



Yes, sadly, it's true. He was also the director of the classic 'a christmas story'. Story can be found here. >>



And the famous Porky's series!! >>




Ah Porky's. My great-grandma loved those movies.

detroitfan2

Wolfbear, do you recall if you ever indicated to Gary prior to him mailing out the packs that you would be sending them in to be graded?

Jdurg

I'm still not 100% confident in a "graded" pack anyway. I can almost guarantee you that if five different people each independantly looked at one pack, you'd probably get at least 3 different grades and perhaps an "altered" indication on one of them. It's not like cards where you can break out some calipers and take measurements, highlight everything under specific wavelengths of light to see if there are any ink variations, etc. etc. With cards there are hard set signs and symptoms that you know could not have been done at the factory.

With packs, it's all really a matter of opinion. You can look for certain tell-tale signs of a pack being altered, but even those signs can be spotted by a novice. The "pack graders" are going under the assumption that every single pack was sealed in the same way for all runs of cards by the company that year. In an "art" as subjective as pack grading, there needs to be a way to validate the authenticity of a pack and that is VERY difficult to do.

In science when working with something that has the potential for error or bias in it, you ALWAYS run control samples. One that is 100% certain to be positive, and one that is 100% certain to be negative. If you positive comes out negative, or vice-versa, on ANY of your test runs for that one unknown sample, then the entire analysis of that unknown sample is thrown away.

In the grading of packs, it is almost impossible to have a positive control sample. As a result, I really take any indication of "altered" with a grain of salt. If you want to go ahead and believe them without questioning the validity of that analysis, then be my guest. It's just that I wouldn't someone convicted of burglary have the keys to my house even if they were only convicted once.

blindflyer

Gary admitted to switching out BBCE product (which we thought we were getting) and shipping us material from his own collection and other "various" sources. He ADMITTED this.

We paid for specfic product (to come from BBCE). He kept a majority of the BBCE product for himself and sent us other stuff. Card "laundering" at its finest.

Gary lied, cheated, and stole from us... and ultimately admitted.

Anyone defending Gary at this point is simply ignorant to some of the facts and details of the entire situation.

-t

fergie23

I didn't participate in any of the rips that were organized by 80sJunkie however I would say that "Not Holdered, Altered" doesn't really mean anything other than PSA didn't feel entirely comfortable with the pack.

I sent in 15 packs from a 1980 Basketball wax box that I bought from DACW and did not touch for several years. 12 of the packs came back with grades and 3 with "Not Holdered, Altered". I then opened the rest of the packs from the box and pulled 2 Bird/Magic rookies from the remaining 21 packs. I certainly didn't do anything to the packs once I had them and DACW normally sells pretty good stuff. I think it is preferable for PSA to reject any packs that are at all questionable (even if they are actually authentic and unopened) rather than grading everything but the obvious fakes.

As to your alls fiasco with "Gary". As an observer it seems pretty obvious that he replaced some fraction of the packs from key years (ie 1981 football) with resealed packs. That way there were enough legit packs for each year that people pulled star cards and thus allayed suspicion (look how long people defended the guy). He was able to get legit packs for himself (say 10 per box, look at the way he bought wrappers and commons) without you all being necessarily the wiser. He probably made sure that no one person got more than one altered pack per grouping. I mean if you pull the star card from one pack and then get all commons from another how likely are you to claim "resealed"? That reads as sour grapes.

Unfortunately for him he ended up being an idiot when it came to his ebay purchases and was caught guilty as sin. His buying habits read 100% pack "creator" regardless of the nonsense he was trying to explain away. I know that when purchasing unopened non-graded material on ebay if I see any purchases of commons or wrappers in the sellers feedback history I run. There really is no reason what-so-ever for a seller of unopened material to be buying wrappers. Sadly I think most sellers have figured this out and use multiple Ebay accounts to disguise this type of behavior.

In the end his greed over took him. He wasn't happy with just replacing some legit packs with his created ones he also decided to get the boxes for the cheapest price possible. All in all a very sad tale of greed and gullibility. The 14k amount is bandied about but the reality is probably closer to 20% of what he provided was completely bogus and thus his "take" from the rips was probably somewhere between $2500-$3500. I know he gave refunds to some folks, I wonder if the refunds have gotten to the point where he is actually "out" any money. He is fortunate that this forum is a pretty tiny community compared to the overall pack/card buying marketplace.

All those that talk to the hallmarks of unopened packs need only look at the wide variety of conditions you see with cards from 70s & 80s card manufacturers to know that packs can vary widely as well.


Robb

TNTonPMS

Wow !
That's some read !
I'm way . . . way out of the loop .
I had no idea .
What do you say the percentage is of dealers that open packs, pick out all the goods then replace with commons and reseal ?

julen23

see "STOP" reference above

gawd...

julen