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Results of Unscientific eBay Feedback Test
MooseDog
Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭
I've been doing a rather unscientific test regarding feedback on eBay. Basically whether it is better as a seller to leave feedback when payment is made (which has been my standard way of doing things since 1997) or waiting until feedback is left for me first by the buyer.
My feedback score is 6936 total received, but I have left 9689, so roughly 29% of my buyers didn't leave feedback.
My test was simply that for 100 transactions - the first 50 I would leave feedback first, the second 50 I would wait until receiving feedback before leaving same. Here's what happened.
In the first sample I left feedback first for all 50 transactions. In return I received 37 feedbacks, or 74%. This is a little higher but close to my overall rate above but still means 13 buyers didn't bother.
In the second sample I waited until receiving feedback before I left same. 45 buyers left feedback, or 90% - and as of this writing the other 5 have not left any feedback.
My feedback score is 6936 total received, but I have left 9689, so roughly 29% of my buyers didn't leave feedback.
My test was simply that for 100 transactions - the first 50 I would leave feedback first, the second 50 I would wait until receiving feedback before leaving same. Here's what happened.
In the first sample I left feedback first for all 50 transactions. In return I received 37 feedbacks, or 74%. This is a little higher but close to my overall rate above but still means 13 buyers didn't bother.
In the second sample I waited until receiving feedback before I left same. 45 buyers left feedback, or 90% - and as of this writing the other 5 have not left any feedback.
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Comments
That doesn't bother me so much.
My whole theory is that you should wait until payment is received, product is delivered, and both are apparently happy (give it 3 days or so after delivery). Just because the buyer has paid, doesn't mean they have fulfilled their part of the complete transaction.
If you owned a restaurant and somebody came in and ate, paid without incident, then started verbally abusing you and your staff on the way out, would you consider that a successful business transaction?
Fast payment, in and of itself, does not warrant positive feedback. By waiting, you avoid getting yourself into a situation where you have left positive feedback, then the buyer starts complaining about the merchandise and leaves you a neg and you have no bullets to fire at them. Also, the threat of a possible retalitory neg might stop them from going forward with their neg.
Lee
To better validate the sample of 50, it would be necessary
to equalize the FB scores of the 50 respondents. Folks
with low FB, tend to be eager to leave FB first, while folks
with high FB often wait until FB is left for them.
This week I found what seemed to be a record.
I found a buyer with more than 200 FB (all positive), who
had left ONLY 2 FBs for his sellers; the buyer has been a
member for about two-years.
Late last year, I stopped leaving FB first. I still get about
90%+ from sellers, and 90%+ from buyers. On high-vol
accounts, I no longer care if I get any FB at all; certainly
do NOT want negs, but I only exchange FB with buyers
who wish to do so.
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Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
But it sounds to logical to me.
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I should not tell this on myself, BUT........................
Though I have had plenty of good reasons, I have NEVER
NEGd anybody, in a collectible-related sale. I have also never
left retaliatory FB in any sale-category.
When smart buyers want to know the truth about a seller,
they need look no further than the FB that seller has left
for others. Leaving NEGs tends to make a seller look like
a problem waiting to happen. (This concept is now being
perverted by serial scamsters, so its validity may fade
quickly. Such crooks are NOT leaving retal FB, for their
complaining victims. Some even leave fake apologies
as comments to the NEGs.)
"I am so sorry you were not happy. Would have made it right, if we'd known."
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Flawed concept.
FB, in part, is designed to rapidly warn others. Waiting for that warning
would cause MANY folks to get ripped-off.
were stating that they'd never buy from a seller who didnt leave feedback first.
Most buyers will leave feedback,to help boost their feedback score.
Myself as a buyer,will not leave feedback until seller does
were stating that they'd never buy from a seller who didnt leave
feedback first."
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I guess that I - and MANY other little-time posters - will just
not get any sales from those folks. That is fine with me. High-vol
accounts do well by providing excellent products/services to
repeat customers; FB is largely an after-thought to such sellers.
A nice bonus, but NOT necessary.
<< <i>If I paid for the merchandise, then I did my part. >>
i disagree 100%..
but this is my last post to this thread..
Either have realistic expectations or don't buy on ebay. Either describe cards accurately or don't sell on ebay. This is how to avoid negative feedback. People often take their buyer's rights too far.
The buyer's end of the deal is not only to pay, but to act in a reasonable manner throughout the entire transaction. The seller's end of the deal is not only to deliver the goods in a timely manner, but to act in a reasonable manner throughout the course of the entire transaction.
I buy about as much as I sell on ebay, so I look at things from both perspectives. I'm not saying use feedback as a retalitory weapon- I mentioned that was one of the perks of holding it back if you choose to view it that way. The main reason to hold back feedback until the buyer is satisfied is because after they have paid, they can still act very unreasonably when they don't have a right to.
Lee
<< <i>"The results of feedback would not be posted until both parties have left feedback (or 45 days have passed). As a buyer I would not know what the seller left and as the seller I would not know what the buyer left until both parties left feedback. "
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Flawed concept.
FB, in part, is designed to rapidly warn others. Waiting for that warning
would cause MANY folks to get ripped-off. >>
But the current system stiffles the accurate use of feedback. Currently buyers/sellers are not being warned because the other party does not want a retalitory neg left back.
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Many sellers do not care about FB; EXCEPT, if that FB is a NEG.
<< <i>"...why do ebayers care after they have established that they are trustworthly sellers or buyers? "
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Many sellers do not care about FB; EXCEPT, if that FB is a NEG.
exactly.. i couldnt care less about another positive feedback, i have thousands of them..
but a big red undeserved negative will piss me off..
<< <i>
<< <i>"...why do ebayers care after they have established that they are trustworthly sellers or buyers? "
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Many sellers do not care about FB; EXCEPT, if that FB is a NEG.
exactly.. i couldnt care less about another positive feedback, i have thousands of them..
but a big red undeserved negative will piss me off.. >>
I agree. I have one neg. from a guy who didnt get his item. I then got it back in my mail as address unknown. Addy matched his paypal and he said it was correct. Agreed to wait for it again, I reshipped and next day he left me a neg. demanding his $$ back. I never got magazine back so I assume he got it. Dont care too much about a neg but it was undeserving. I tried to mutually withdraw but he never responded and has yet to buy another item. Probally his alt. and someone I've crossed paths with whom I upset. (ie. seller of fake FF versions I contact,old ladies etc.)
The feedback topic is a topic everyong has a point of view on
For the record, I leave feedback after a buyer has and when I receive an item whether or not the seller has.
In the "about me" section I state my feedback policy, that way if people do not like it they do not have to buy from me. I work too hard to maintain a good seller reputation to have it blown by one a**hole. The 2 negs I have are from one seller that was a real dick.
This system has worked for me as well. From the buyer's perspective, once a seller has fulfilled their obligation, i.e. delivered exactly what they promised, I always leave positive feedback regardless of whether I receive or historically have received positive feedback in return. But, as a seller, a transaction is not complete, in my opinion, until after I am paid and after the customer receives what was promised and expresses, through feedback, that the contract has been fulfilled to their satisfaction. Once the buyer leaves feedback, the contract has been fulfilled and I will leave feedback to confirm that the transaction is closed. Unlike a brick and mortar retailer like WalMart, a seller does not know a customer is happy until they leave feedback. And, just being paid for an item leaves too many unanswered questions since the buyer has not received their item yet.
I will, however, occasionally leave feedback for a "regular" customer before they leave fb for me because we have built up a level of trust that gives me confidence that I am not leaving myself exposed.
I have left feedback for every single seller I have purchased an item from with no exceptions. However, if a buyer does not leave me feedback and I have no history with them, I will not leave positive feedback until they leave feedback
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
<< <i>I will, however, occasionally leave feedback for a "regular" customer before they leave fb for me because we have built up a level of trust that gives me confidence that I am not leaving myself exposed.
I have left feedback for every single seller I have purchased an item from with no exceptions. However, if a buyer does not leave me feedback and I have no history with them, I will not leave positive feedback until they leave feedback >>
I agree completely, very good way of stating it
Rich
(Then again, maybe he's just honest enough to write what may people are thinking.)
Playing the 'feedback hostage' game so you have 'retalitory bullets to shoot' is a poor way to do business. And many people, especially newbies to eBay, get real hung up on that 100% feedback rating.
eBay's whole system became even more of a joke several years ago when they started using that 3rd party that people could pay to have negative feedback removed. (You zing me, I zing you, then one of us pays $50 bucks once we come to our senses, and we both agree to have the feedback removed.)
Just as in the real world, some customers are going to be a pain. Some are going to lie, and a few are going to try to rip you off in some form. So be it - it's a part of doing business - any business.
When I see someone with 2500 feedbacks and a 100% rating, I think twice about doing business with them.
'Look at my feedback - 2500 and no negatives'..........means: 'I withhold feedback because I have no confidence in my ability to run a legitimate business.'
I can guarantee this stuff costs you guys some sales on eBay...
'Look at my feedback - 2500 and no negatives'..........means: 'I withhold feedback because I have no confidence in my ability to run a legitimate business.'
I can guarantee this stuff costs you guys some sales on eBay...
I'm fairly certain that you're in a VERY small minority with that perspective...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I agree with you boo.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>CDNuts post (3rd one down in this thread) outlines everything that is wrong with the eBay system.
(Then again, maybe he's just honest enough to write what may people are thinking.)
Playing the 'feedback hostage' game so you have 'retalitory bullets to shoot' is a poor way to do business. And many people, especially newbies to eBay, get real hung up on that 100% feedback rating.
eBay's whole system became even more of a joke several years ago when they started using that 3rd party that people could pay to have negative feedback removed. (You zing me, I zing you, then one of us pays $50 bucks once we come to our senses, and we both agree to have the feedback removed.)
Just as in the real world, some customers are going to be a pain. Some are going to lie, and a few are going to try to rip you off in some form. So be it - it's a part of doing business - any business.
When I see someone with 2500 feedbacks and a 100% rating, I think twice about doing business with them.
'Look at my feedback - 2500 and no negatives'..........means: 'I withhold feedback because I have no confidence in my ability to run a legitimate business.'
I can guarantee this stuff costs you guys some sales on eBay... >>
There are plenty of great people and great sellers on eBay with 100% feedback and run a great business. As big of a joke the feedback system is, we all use it when we look at who we are going to purchase from. If you think twice about doing business with someone who has 100% feedback who do you do business with?, fmemech, will hays cards, or other sellers who have deserve the negative feedback they have received. Not everyone deserves the bad feedback they get, but some people do.
Lots of sellers have gotten neg'd because a package was lost or damaged by UPS or USPS and they had no control over it, if that happens twice or three times, that can damage your reputation.
Lost businsss by lower feedback percentage is greater than lost biz by withholding feedback. sellers have a lot more to lose than buyers and it is easier to build up a good rep as a buyer than as a seller.
<< <i>"For the record, I leave feedback after a buyer has and when I receive an item whether or not the seller has."
This system has worked for me as well. From the buyer's perspective, once a seller has fulfilled their obligation, i.e. delivered exactly what they promised, I always leave positive feedback regardless of whether I receive or historically have received positive feedback in return. But, as a seller, a transaction is not complete, in my opinion, until after I am paid and after the customer receives what was promised and expresses, through feedback, that the contract has been fulfilled to their satisfaction. Once the buyer leaves feedback, the contract has been fulfilled and I will leave feedback to confirm that the transaction is closed. Unlike a brick and mortar retailer like WalMart, a seller does not know a customer is happy until they leave feedback. And, just being paid for an item leaves too many unanswered questions since the buyer has not received their item yet.
I will, however, occasionally leave feedback for a "regular" customer before they leave fb for me because we have built up a level of trust that gives me confidence that I am not leaving myself exposed.
I have left feedback for every single seller I have purchased an item from with no exceptions. However, if a buyer does not leave me feedback and I have no history with them, I will not leave positive feedback until they leave feedback >>
Crave, That's funny because I do the exact opposite of you.
I leave pos. FB for all buyers first, and I don't leave any for sellers unless the post it for me first.
Honestly, I could care less if I receive FB as a seller. I just always leave it for buyers after they've paid out of courtesy and to basically say thanks for buying from me.
I too am lacking close to 2000 feedbacks using this method, but like I said, I could care less.
Interesting test.
Case in point- I bought a bunch of resealed wax packs from a guy. He gives me positive feedback upon payment. I get the packs, tell him they're reseals, so he offers a refund. He gets the packs back, tells me some of the gum in them was broken during shipping, and wants to give me a partial refund. This has been escalated to a paypal claim by me. You still think he wants to leave me positive feedback? Since I haven't left anything for, the ball is in my court and I can leave a neg, neutral, or nothing at all without any fear of retaliation. Do I like the way the system's set up? Not really, but that's the way it is so I work within it.
I don't believe in holding feedback hostage either, but the way the system is set up makes that a benefit of waiting to leave fb. I generally wait until I have about 20 transactions, then leave feedback all at once for those bueyers/sellers, regardless of whether they left anything for me. And Boo is right too- I could care less if a bidder on one of my items has 5% negatives, as long as he pays on time and acts like a reasonable human being, we'll be fine.
Lee
<< <i>When I see someone with 2500 feedbacks and a 100% rating, I think twice about doing business with them.
'Look at my feedback - 2500 and no negatives'..........means: 'I withhold feedback because I have no confidence in my ability to run a legitimate business.'
I can guarantee this stuff costs you guys some sales on eBay...
I'm fairly certain that you're in a VERY small minority with that perspective... >>
I agree with Grote here.
I've been selling on ebay for 9 years, I have several thousand positives with no negs or neutrals and I post feedback for buyers right after they've paid.
I've also left 7 or 8 negs for deadbeats and for some reason I have never got a neg. in return. And I didn't leave snipe negatives either. Maybe I'm just lucky.
Also my blocked bidder list numbers over 100 bidders, but i'm sure many are now not registered either anymore.
When buying, I leave PF when I get the item in good shape
When selling, I leave PF when they pay.
If a buyer leaves Neg FB after I have left PF, you can always leave reply to his NF.
But to be hones, when buying a big ticket item from someone, I usually check their FB, if they have 1000+ PF's, with one NF from some guy with 10 transactions, I can read the writting on the wall.
I think this also extends to those that bought a $5-10 on ebay and want to complain about it on collector forums.
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
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Some such complaints serve as a warning to other forum readers.
In my experience, a seller who will burn you for $5 or $10, will burn
you hotter for big bucks.
I leave feedback as often as I can...and if it's repeat customers..I try to be as diligent as possible to leave it ASAP.
But real life comes at you...and honestly..I try to worry about 2 mortgages...car payments...a wife with a broken leg..3 kids...bills..and buying and listing more things on Ebay and doing shows to keep the whole system flowing. WHEN there's spare time....feedback comes in...and I always leave it...just not on a constant schedule.
I have to disagree with estil's statement. The deal isn't done until both sides are happy. I tend to look at fedback as a thank you receipt for a job well done.
I have my 1st situation going on right now with a moron buyer who just doesn't get it!! He bought a 525 card lot for $149.95 that had $1200-$1300 worth of cards...it was listed as a bulk lot of certain player...and stated "YES there are duplicates"...big letters in the auction.
He paid right away...and then got the cards and files a "not as described" complaint with Paypal. He wasn't happy and said there were too many duplicates in the lot..and that he only wanted to pay for the cards he needed!! He said..he'd keepthe junk and withdraw the initial dispute..IF I knocked it down to $100...
Yah right!!
Let's see...auction stated bulk. ..duplication...and the reason he gave for complaint was too many duplicates!!
HMM..1st there was no guarantee of any certain number of cards in the lot....it didn't state X different cards with dupes. There was 525 cards..they were listed as NM-MT or better..which he got...they were shipped double boxed...which he liked...
But he only needed 225 singles out of the 525..so he wanted to hold feedback as hostage towards me. He commented on "you've got 100% positive feedback..it would be a shame to lose it!! If I don't get what I want...you can just deal with paypal for a month"
My choice was to kindly remind him that I hadn't left feedback either....and that for the mere sake of fun...I'll take my shot with Paypal.
It's been 3 weeks and 4 emails with paypal...and I STILL don't have the funds back in my account.
Easy solution...IF I lose..I'll sick my lawyer on them and cost them 10X that in legal fees...
Just because he paid within 5 minutes..do you still think he deserves a positive feedback????????????
That's one rotten buyer trying to hold you hostage with feedback.
The feedback system certainly is flawed when you, as a seller, did nothing wrong but you're left open to feedback blackmail.
Please post his user id so I can add yet another jacka$$ to my ever growing blocked bidder list. Or PM me their id if you have time.
I hope it works out for you......
Rich
I'm a shade under 200 fb's in a little under 7 years and I've only not left feedback for two things (a DVD that I felt was inaccurately described and a couple of Super Bowl programs that looked to have been packaged by a chimp.) I try to be conscientious, and I always leave an individual feedback for each item in a multi-item lot.