Discussion today with PCGS concerning GW smoothie submissions

RVDavis

I have a submission in to PCGS of the smoothies. I included 25 of the starburst coins. Last Thursday when I called, PCGS was designating the starburst. Today, when my submission is completed, no starburst designation. I was upset to say the least, and asked the rep on the phone why no starburst. At first the answer was 'they are being really tough on starburst designations' and I challenged that. I have a bunch of those, and I sent the 25 strongest starbusts I have. She put me on hold and came back 'they are not designating that starburst at all'. Ouch; why send the things in? These 25 did not receive good grades; I wonder if the graders are taking off points for the starburst? They are otherwise quite clean. They graded five coins at MS 63 and 20 coins at MS 64. Oh well.

I don't have the other grades yet.

The price also changed on me; I was told that might happen. Any surprise that it went up between sending in my coins and the completion of the grading?

Longacre

What's the starburst? Is that the halo feature that someone posted about "Saint George"?

Cladiator

Don't worry. Your coins are still "starburst" even if PCGS won't write it on the label.

Manorcourtman

I had a couple of the so-called starburst smoothies and sold them off because they would not grade well at PCGS. PCGS probably "docked" you points for them. They are simply struck-thru examples and I knew they would frown upon them. I was amused when I rec'd them at first but quickly realized they were "damaged" goods in the grading theatre. I sent 4 non-starburst examples and just got my grades...2-64's and 2-65's. Just my opinion and experience. How can PCGS classify a struck-thru coin in the first place? Afterall they are all somewhat different and where do you draw the line on receiving the designation? I'm sure those questions among others led them to not label them as a special variety. Us variety guys know that getting them to identify varieties can be very difficult to say the least.

Kaelasdad

I was told the same, it appears that they are net grading the coins, such that a starburst coin is lower graded than a non starburst, which makes no sense as it is still mint struck as such, and not later damage. To give these 63 and 64 grades is not right. because there are different levels of strike through on these, it may have become troublesome to say light strike through, heavy strike through, just obverse, just reverse, obv and rev, so they just canned it all. I actually prefer the starburst to a regular coin, gives it a personality, but they are punishing the coin with the low grades.

kranky

Perhaps they feel the starburst lowers the eye appeal, and therefore the grade.

Steve

It continuously amazes me how some people chase after a quick buck on common junk coins that will have value only to those who collect the entire Presidential series AND in high business strike and proof grade. These so called "smoothy" errors will not be worth premiums to most true collectors because I believe they will be a "dime a dozen" in a few years as more of these junk $1.00 coins roll out. This, of course is just my opinion. Steve

RVDavis

<< <i>It continuously amazes me how some people chase after a quick buck on common junk coins that will have value only to those who collect the entire Presidential series AND in high business strike and proof grade. These so called "smoothy" errors will not be worth premiums to most true collectors because I believe they will be a "dime a dozen" in a few years as more of these junk $1.00 coins roll out. This, of course is just my opinion. Steve >>



Steve:

If you are referencing me in the 'people chase after a quick buck...' comment you are in error. I sold some of my smoothies; I have not sold a single coin in the past two weeks and I plan on holding what I have left; in fact I am looking to buy more as I sold more coins than I wanted to do. The bulk of my coins were sold for $40 or so. I plan to hold my remaining coins and see what happens in five or ten years.

I am absolutley a 'true collector' and have been so for decades. Your point about the staying power of the value of the smooth edge GW is a question that will be answered with time. This coin error is interesting and people want to own it. That is their choice. People collect errors and not all of us can afford the high priced 18th and 19th century rarities. Do you think only the rich should be allowed to collect coins, junk or not?

Rick

Steve

Rick,
My comments were not directed specifically at you, but I will say that each of us certainly has the right to collect what they want to. I would think the real interest in these Presidential dollars would be the rim writing which is rather unique with modern coins. The interest in these coins without the rim writing seems to me to be in anticipation that lots of people will pay big bucks (ie) more than $1.00 for such coins. Obviously, some people ARE paying premiums for these coins now. If there is a market for these coins ten years from now, I believe that there will also then be a bunch of counterfeiters filling off the edge lettering to sell the coins. You have every right to buy and sell these coins if you like. I just don't believe they have the kind of future premium value that you apparently do. Steve

RVDavis

<< <i>Rick,
My comments were not directed specifically at you, but I will say that each of us certainly has the right to collect what they want to. I would think the real interest in these Presidential dollars would be the rim writing which is rather unique with modern coins. The interest in these coins without the rim writing seems to me to be in anticipation that lots of people will pay big bucks (ie) more than $1.00 for such coins. Obviously, some people ARE paying premiums for these coins now. If there is a market for these coins ten years from now, I believe that there will also then be a bunch of counterfeiters filling off the edge lettering to sell the coins. You have every right to buy and sell these coins if you like. I just don't believe they have the kind of future premium value that you apparently do. Steve >>



Steve:

I might agree with your evaluation of future value if I had not watched, with some amazement, the high/low quarters. I personally do not collect them. I have been amazed at how those coins have held value. There are a lot of modern collectors today.

Put yourself back 50 years and am certain that two collectors had much the same argument over the double die cent of 1955. That was, after all, modern crap at the time. I think you are correct in that the interest in the Presidential dollar devolves from the edge strike; I think that also is what has generated the intense interest in the smooth edges. Error coins will always have a large following and 50 years from now, people will still be talking about the 2007 GW smooth edge. I put mine away and will continue to collect 1878 Philadelphia Morgans; in fact much of the money I made on smoothies went right into Morgans.

Rick

AskRaq

Regarding the "starburst" grading... I have seen the shiny laminate splash listed as a "SUNburst" error, and in a certified/graded slab identified as "Struck Through" a couple of times.

This (PCGS MS63) one is on eBay right now and has: smooth edge & the struck through identified (but also in pic shows die clash)

http://cgi.ebay.com/2007-P-Washington-with-3-Errors-No-Lettering-PCGS_W0QQitemZ160099448437QQcategoryZ149688QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

RVDavis

Link

Kaelasdad

Seeing that PCGS has discontinued that number and is no longer even mentioning obv and rev strike through, I bought that slab--1 of 4 in the population so far.

DennisH

As a longtime collector who has no intention of collecting the Presidential Series, I nonetheless do want to own one of the "smooth edge" Washington dollars, because major errors (no loupe needed) appeal to me -- especially on high-denomination coins

Kaelasdad

I find nothing wrong with having an example of this coin in a collection, and once the collecting public turns to the dollars as more come out, they will turn to these dollars as well, and 50,000 wont be enough for 1 million collectors. Its the high/low leaf of the presidential series and how many wish they had got into those high/lows earlier than later?

sportsfan007

<< <i>Don't worry. Your coins are still "starburst" even if PCGS won't write it on the label. >>


That is a point that label, holder, and pedigree collectors will never accept.