what's best psa 6 or gai 7 '52 topps mantle

coastrebcoastreb · March 29, 2007 12:44PM

i have a Gai 7 '52 topps mantle. thinking of sending it to PSA for cross over grading. I know i could say that i will not accept anything lower than a psa 7 or would a psa 6 be better than a "bird in hand" Gai 7 in this card. just wanted your opinion.

danp306 · March 29, 2007 1:06PM

I would rather buy a PSA 6 then a GAI 7, no doubt about it. I just sent in
13 cards to crossover to PSA. Only 6 of the 13 made the minimum grade.
Good Luck.

Dan

Griffins · March 29, 2007 3:55PM

you have to crack out GAI slabs before sending them to PSA. Sending them in intact for crossover service will usually get them rejected.
At this point I think you'd be better off with a PSA 5 than a GAI 7.

RonBurgundy · March 29, 2007 11:51PM

Depends on the card. Buy the card, not the holder.

Ron

1420sports · March 30, 2007 12:45AM

Do you have a scan of the Mantle? If so, I would post it here in order to get a more accurate response.

I think that many collectors feel that any card that is stillin a GAI holder is one that could not cross to PSA or SGC.

RonBurgundy · March 30, 2007 5:11AM

I would like to see a scan too. The question of whether it would cross over sometimes depends on who at GAI graded it.

Ron

sagard · March 30, 2007 5:27AM

<< <i>I would like to see a scan too. The question of whether it would cross over sometimes depends on who at GAI graded it. >>

You don't think it might depend on who submitted it?

DRS · March 30, 2007 6:53AM

I believe that the card being referred to was this:

1952 Topps Mantle GAI 7

Mickey71 · March 30, 2007 7:13AM

If it's the card in the scan, the upper left corner might warrant a 5. That card is way overgraded at a 7. When cards are that far overgraded it is disturbing. I wonder if that PSA dealer had that card graded by GAI and WHY?

bluemarlin · March 30, 2007 7:42AM

That is a beautiful Mantle!
My guess is if you sent it in to PSA it would probably get a 6.

Congrats on the sweet pick up.
Jake

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 12:47PM

thanks Jake. everyone is so obsessed with PSA it makes me sick. I have been collecting since 1980 and I have seen PSA just murder a perfectly good card. It's kinda like the grader had a fight with his wife the morning he left for work and then took it out on every card he graded. Heck, the GAI guys worked for PSA. Don't they know what to look for in a card or did they just forget everything when they left. Thanks for your opinion

wayne mills

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 12:49PM

you are exactly right. Why is everyone so obsessed with PSA. Heck, the GAI guys worked for PSA. Did they just forget everything when they left. we're not talking about PRO here, buy people who learned at PSA. Thanks for your opinion

wayne mills

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 12:53PM

ron;
the card IS the card that is just below your message. Just my opinion, but PSA is way over-rated. I've seen them murder very good cards for no reason. Did the GAI guys forget everything they knew just because they quit PSA. Thanks for your opinion.

wayne mills

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 12:59PM

mickey71;
you can tell ALL that from a scan? I'll tell you what, I go to my grave with the GAI 7 before I will let PSA murder it. I've owned 5 1952 topps Mantle's. Just sold a PSA 4 and this card is SO much better. I bought it for myself so it will stay a 7. thanks for your opinion.

wayne mills

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 1:02PM

Didn't the 6 out of 13 make you feel like PSA is off their rocker. I find them to be very inconsistent. thanks

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 1:15PM

1420sports;
please explain why a GAI cannot be graded by PSA. Is it because PSA is mad because the guys who worked there quit and started GAI?

RonBurgundy · March 30, 2007 1:35PM

It's a 6. Leave it in the current holder.

Ron

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 2:10PM

thanks Ron. I'd be satisfied with a 6. i'll leave it in the GAI holder and let the future buyer (if i ever choose to sell it) determine what they think. thanks again for your input.

wayne

danp306 · March 30, 2007 2:14PM

First off: Your Mantle is a beauty!!! If you could get it to crossover to a PSA7 you would really end up with a great buy.
I checked out the last 6 sales of PSA 7 52 Mantles. All sold in excess of $30,000.

So, unfortunate as it is, GAI does not command as high prices as PSA. I've seen this time and time again with
cards I've sold and cards that I have purchased.

I'm new to this hobby, but have already stopped buying GAI graded cards. I am now buying PSA (and SGC for 1920's and earlier). If for
some reason I were to buy a GAI graded card I would make sure I spent 1 grade less than the equivalent PSA value. Of course, that's just me. I'm sure you know a lot more about grading than I do.

FYI:
Here's a status of the 13 cards I sent in:
(I am thinking of breaking each card out and sending them in. I'd love to find out the truth about the crossover vs. break out theory.)

1 out of 4 GAI cards crossed over
4 out of 6 SGC cards crossed over
1 out of 3 BGS cards crossed over

SGC40 --> PSA 3
SGC84 M/G to PSA 7 (card definitely looks nice enough to be a PSA7)
SGC88 M/G to PSA 8
SGC96 --> PSA9
SGC88 --> PSA8
SGC88 --> PSA8

GAI7.5 --> PSA7
GAI8 M/G to PSA8
GAI8 M/G to PSA8
GAI8.5 M/G to PSA8

BGS9.5 M/G to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 = 9.0)
BGS9.5 --> PSA10
BGS9.5 M/g to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 - 9.0)

Good Luck with your Mantle!!

Dan

packCollector · March 30, 2007 2:34PM

the card looks like a psa 6 based on the upper left corner , I would rather have it as a psa 6 ans it should proably cross using the crossover service to the lower grade without issue. the gai holder is a knock on what is a really beautiful card , you should seriously consider sending it in for a crossovver . good luck

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 2:40PM

danp306;
Thanks for all the info you sent me. What I think I will do is send it to PSA and not accept anything lower than a psa 7. that way, the worse that can happen is that i will get it back in the GAI 7 holder plus expenses. I could accept a PSA 6 on it but still not ready to go that route. Thanks again for the lists you sent me. They will give me some insight in cross over in the future. thanks

wayne mills

coastrebcoastreb · March 30, 2007 2:47PM

packcollector;
thanks for your suggestion. Maybe a PSA 6 is not so bad. Maybe I'll send it in and not accept anything lower than a 6. I've got 25 different suggestions. I just have this feeling that PSA resents GAI for the guys leaving. Hate to crack it open and damage the card. I'm just lost as what to do. thanks

wayne

bluemarlin · March 30, 2007 3:02PM

Definatley DO NOT crack that GAI slab open!!!! if that card is damaged in the slightest
it will be downgraded severly.
Jake

bluemarlin · March 30, 2007 3:07PM

Your best method is to just send it to PSA with your minimum grade acceptance.

Good luck and again no matter what holder it's in that is one Beautiful Mick

elmjack44 · March 30, 2007 6:29PM

You know what is pathetic? And, no, I don't mean the use of the complete BS "with a sublime regal azure blue background" in the linked auction. I mean the fact that two separate grading companies will give a card different grades. WTF is the point of getting something graded?????????????

DRS · March 30, 2007 7:47PM

Is there any special procedure (turnaournd, cost, ect...) when sending a high value card, such this, to PSA for crossover?

DRS · March 30, 2007 8:19PM

">Text

DRS · March 30, 2007 8:23PM

What do members of this board think about crossing over this GAI 7 Mantle?

bluemarlin · March 31, 2007 12:31AM

Another great looking card,I think the corners render a little to weak to warrant a crossover to a PSA 7.
It's a solid 6

Jake

cravetopps · March 31, 2007 5:30AM

<<< 1420sports;
please explain why a GAI cannot be graded by PSA. Is it because PSA is mad because the guys who worked there quit and started GAI? >>>

Plenty of people leave companies to start new ventures thinking they have the wherewithal and the skills to duplicate the success at the previous company. Some make it, many do not. Just because GAI was started by some people who formerly worked at PSA is no guarantee for success.

I have had nothing but bad experiences with GAI and I would not buy "the card and not the holder" if it was in a GAI holder. The card in question appears to me to be overgraded.

NickM · March 31, 2007 6:14AM

It's a nice looking 6; I wouldn't have a problem if this were in a GAI 6.5 holder, but I think the corner wear is too much (looks like 3 corners worn, if not 4) for a 7 grade to be warranted.

Nick

RonBurgundy · March 31, 2007 7:00AM

FYI:
Here's a status of the 13 cards I sent in:
(I am thinking of breaking each card out and sending them in. I'd love to find out the truth about the crossover vs. break out theory.)

1 out of 4 GAI cards crossed over
4 out of 6 SGC cards crossed over
1 out of 3 BGS cards crossed over

SGC40 --> PSA 3
SGC84 M/G to PSA 7 (card definitely looks nice enough to be a PSA7)
SGC88 M/G to PSA 8
SGC96 --> PSA9
SGC88 --> PSA8
SGC88 --> PSA8

GAI7.5 --> PSA7
GAI8 M/G to PSA8
GAI8 M/G to PSA8
GAI8.5 M/G to PSA8

BGS9.5 M/G to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 = 9.0)
BGS9.5 --> PSA10
BGS9.5 M/g to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 - 9.0)

Good Luck with your Mantle!!

Dan

QUERY: Did you review these crossovers carefully before you sent them in? I.E., self-grade them? The reason I'm asking is, there's really not a whole lot of difference in the grading standards between the main 3 companies. Most of the time you can look at a GAI 7.5 or SGC 86 card and tell if it has a chance to bump. If you don't self-grade in advance and just send them in willy nilly, you're bound to be disappointed. Also, though the relative standards are the same, the companies treat certain issues differently. For example, GAI will hammer a card with snow (if Mike Baker grades it), but will be more lenient with corners. PSA will hammer a card with a roller mark, whereas the others are more lenient. And so on. The point is that when the crossover discussion comes up, people often overlook the importance of reviewing these cards carefully yourself.

Ron

danp306 · March 31, 2007 7:48AM

<< <i>
QUERY: Did you review these crossovers carefully before you sent them in? I.E., self-grade them? The reason I'm asking is, there's really not a whole lot of difference in the grading standards between the main 3 companies. Most of the time you can look at a GAI 7.5 or SGC 86 card and tell if it has a chance to bump. If you don't self-grade in advance and just send them in willy nilly, you're bound to be disappointed. Also, though the relative standards are the same, the companies treat certain issues differently. For example, GAI will hammer a card with snow (if Mike Baker grades it), but will be more lenient with corners. PSA will hammer a card with a roller mark, whereas the others are more lenient. And so on. The point is that when the crossover discussion comes up, people often overlook the importance of reviewing these cards carefully yourself.

Ron >>

I did review them, not carefully though. I'm not experienced enough to tell the difference between 7.5 & 8. However, I did post the BGS9.5's for review on the forum. I looked over the Topps Tiffany C Jones RC (BGS 9.5) as carefully as I could. This card looked perfect to me. I couldn't believe it didn't get a 10.

I guess I'm more looking at resale value. It really looks to me like GAI vs. PSA is no contest. Do you agree? Look at recent sales...

Dan

coastrebcoastreb · March 31, 2007 11:34AM

I agree. sending cards in for grading is a crap shoot. you could probably send in the same card in twice to the same company and get 2 different grades. What makes some graders so much better than others. it's not rocket science!

1420sports · March 31, 2007 12:28PM

1420sports; please explain why a GAI cannot be graded by PSA. Is it because PSA is mad because the guys who worked there quit and started GAI?

I think you may have misread what I wrote. What I was trying to say is that many cards that were graded by GAI have been crossed over to PSA or SGC - GAI cards generally do not sell for what they once did. As a matter of fact, many collectors (but not all) simply do not trust GAI graded cards. PSA and SGC cards generally cross over between the two with equal grades for the most part.

I don't think that PSA is mad at anyone.

1420sports · March 31, 2007 12:29PM

BTW, that is one nice Mantle you have there.

cohocorp · March 31, 2007 5:18PM

<< <i>What do members of this board think about crossing over this GAI 7 Mantle?

>>

david,
certainly worth a shot.

RonBurgundy · April 2, 2007 2:54AM

Dan - with regard to resale value, it's no contest between PSA and any of the other grading companies. I just encourage people to self grade carefully and learn as much as you can because you can save yourself time, money, etc. that way. If you "know enough to be dangerous", it will help you in the long run.

Ron

sagard · April 2, 2007 4:12AM

The GAI 7 Mantle is very nice, but I'd need to know three things:

1. Is that scuffing or paper loss in the top left?
2. Is that a scratch/crease going the the Mick's right ear?
3. Did someone set it on top of a credit card and roll over the top surface?

If the answers are "NO" to all three of these then I'd say go ahead and try the crossover.

danp306 · April 2, 2007 4:44AM

Here's a real nice 52 Mantle PSA7 being offered on Memory Lane's auction:

Looks like the corners are a little sharper. It's bid is already at $23.5k (+ 17.5%).

DRS · April 2, 2007 9:48AM

On the GAI 7 First Graded Mantle, there is some paper loss (accounting for white specs on left and around ear)

There is no scratch on the right ear - that is a scratch on the holder

The holder does have some shadowy printing on it - but this on the holder, not the card

danp306 · April 2, 2007 12:21PM

I thought about this a little more. Don't you think the original owner already tried crossing this over to PSA? For a card that expensive, knowing that a PSA7 would get you another $5k+ on the sale, I have to believe the prior owner tried to crossover already. After it missed they had to decide whether a PSA6 would sell for more than a GAI7 and decided (correctly I believe) that the GAI7 would sell for more $$$.

Just my own thoughts...

Dan

coastrebcoastreb · April 2, 2007 3:21PM

even though i bought the card, you are probably right. At $ 24,000, i paid about what a psa 6 would be i think. a psa 7 in SMR books at about $ 32,00. I still like the card and am glad I got it. Probably will sell it in about 6 months and hope to make a little. I have a GAI 3.5 that I like also. Probably will keep it forever. Thanks for your input.

wayne mills

coastrebcoastreb · April 2, 2007 3:24PM

also, a friend of mine told me today that he submitted a card to psa and got a 2. He then cracked it open and resubmitted it and got a psa 7. It was a lower cost card, but this still makes you wonder about all this grading hype.

wayne

grote15 · April 2, 2007 3:32PM

also, a friend of mine told me today that he submitted a card to psa and got a 2. He then cracked it open and resubmitted it and got a psa 7. It was a lower cost card, but this still makes you wonder about all this grading hype.

Are you kidding me? There must be more behind this story than meets the eye...

DRS · April 2, 2007 8:36PM

If anyone is interested in my GAI 7 First Graded 1952 Topps Mantle, email me with offer

sagard · April 3, 2007 5:24AM

<< <i>also, a friend of mine told me today that he submitted a card to psa and got a 2. He then cracked it open and resubmitted it and got a psa 7. It was a lower cost card, but this still makes you wonder about all this grading hype.

wayne >>

That sounds like the first grader was harsh on some very minor paper loss, and the second grader missed it.

DRS · April 8, 2007 5:57AM

Following up to see if anyone is interested in my GAI 7 1st Graded 1952 Topps Mantle

email me if interested

danp306 · April 24, 2007 9:21AM

FYI:
Here's a status of the 13 cards I sent in:
(I am thinking of breaking each card out and sending them in. I'd love to find out the truth about the crossover vs. break out theory.)

1 out of 4 GAI cards crossed over
4 out of 6 SGC cards crossed over
1 out of 3 BGS cards crossed over

SGC40 --> PSA 3
SGC84 M/G to PSA 7 (card definitely looks nice enough to be a PSA7)
SGC88 M/G to PSA 8
SGC96 --> PSA9
SGC88 --> PSA8
SGC88 --> PSA8

GAI7.5 --> PSA7
GAI8 M/G to PSA8
GAI8 M/G to PSA8
GAI8.5 M/G to PSA8

BGS9.5 M/G to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 = 9.0)
BGS9.5 --> PSA10
BGS9.5 M/g to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 - 9.0)

>>

OK, here's an update. I decided to break out most the cards that I tried crossing over above and resubmitting. I needed to
see how they would grade.

Crossover Results: SGC84 M/G to PSA 7
Raw Results: This card did come back PSA7 after not crossing over.

Crossover Results: SGC88 M/G to PSA 8
Raw Results: PSA7

Crossover Results: GAI8 M/G to PSA8
Raw Results: PSA7

Crossover Results: GAI8 M/G to PSA8
Raw Results: PSA7

Crossover Results: GAI8.5 M/G to PSA8
Raw Results: PSA7

Crossover Results: BGS9.5 M/G to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 = 9.0)
Raw Results: did not submit

Crossover Results: BGS9.5 M/g to PSA10 (3 - 9.5, 1 - 9.0)
Raw Results: did not submit

So, only 1 made the original grade (and it was an SGC card). The rest were one grade lower. This pretty much confirms my
theory that if you are buying a GAI card, don't pay higher than PSA grade minus 1. I know this was no where
near scientific enough, but it is good enough for me.

Dan

bobsbbcards · April 24, 2007 11:17PM

Speaking of PSA 7 Mantles, I'd rather have the PSA 7 shown below than the PSA 8 (both in current Mastro).

gwinny · May 6, 2007 7:14AM

what's best psa 6 or gai 7 '52 topps mantle

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