Large Collection Inheritance Dilemma - big long post

BN

Large Collection Inheritance Dilemma

So as some of you know I’ve inherited a fairly large coin collection from my grandfather. It had been sitting in a safety deposit box in MI until recently. He did most of his collecting from 1920 – 1990 prior to passing away. My grandmother wisely did not tell me of it till I was a little older.

The collection was left to my cousin and I, so I’m tasked with evaluating it and dividing it in half. He only wants cash for his portion, though I’m going to make him hold his gold maple. I’m undecided on what I want.

Anyway, my point in posting this is to get peoples thoughts on how they would approach this situation. I’ll outline what I’ve done, where I stand with coins and ideas I’ve had about what options I’ve considered.

What I’ve done:
· Inventoried everything; indexed it, graded it myself and had a guy at Lakewood Coins give me his grade on the key items, currently scanning all coins at 720dpi.

· Bought the Red book, blue book and grey sheets.

· Read as much as I can to learn about the coins and properly identify them.


Where I stand:
· I’ve found that I enjoy the coins, but I’m not sure about collecting. The concept of the coin being very old and wondering about “who held this coin, what was their life like, etc.” interests me, but that’s something that can never be answered. I appreciate their place in history as well. I am just unsure if my income will support a numismatic hobby.

· I really see them as a hedge against disaster. I lean towards thinking things will get ugly in the near future… yeah I know.. paranoid… but then again who can really say for sure. So they are a good hedge against a collapse. Though who buys coins in a depression? Gold at bullion value maybe but not numismatic value.

· There is as well, the aspect that they were important to my grandfather, so I will choose a few to hold on to for memories sake.

· What I absolutely am not doing is cashing out to go spend the money on whatever, this an inheritance geared towards long term inflation proof savings.


Options:
· The biggest dilemma is figuring out how to establish a true value to split them on? I’ve got the groundwork done by doing inventory and grading, but what price index do I use? Grey sheets? Blue book?

· Next, given the high price of gold and silver right now it seems foolish to liquidate all the coins then buy gold and silver to hold. Yet, who knows it may go much higher then we could have a collapse. Then again, maybe not.

· I’ve been thinking what I might do to keep the sale of the coins systematic and controlled would be to sell all the cents as a lot, then the 5 cents as a lot, dimes as a lot and so on. This would help prevent being left with a bunch of non-sellable items after collectors pick through the good stuff. However it’s my guess that selling as a lot might push down the overall value.

· Then again I could just evaluate the value of the collection and make monthly payments to my cousin until I hit the halfway point. Again this leaves me with the how do I value it question. Obviously, what a reference tells me it’s worth vs. what I can actually get in a sale of it might be very different, and thus I’d payout to my cousin more than it’s really worth.


Ok, I’ll end this here. Either I’m on some sort of logical path, or just plain thinking way too much.

I’d really appreciate people’s thoughts on this, particularly on the value assessment and liquidation side.

If I do decide to sell I’ll certainly let all of you know.

Thanks again,

BN

SpaceMonkey

i will leave this to the experts here... but I just wanted to say... you REALLY did think this trough and seem very intelligent and understand the gold and silver world a little bit... your thoughts seem very reasonable and i wish you luck on you process.... not an easy thing to do for sure.

/ed

TwoSides2aCoin

Whew, that's a mouthful.


Hi,
I'm Joe

RedTiger

One idea that comes to my mind is to consign a portion of the collection, say 5% or 10% of the coins to one of several board members that do that (inquire on the Buy-Sell-Trade board to find out about folks that accept consignments). Use the results from those auctions to establish a fair basis vs. grey sheet. Then use that multiplier or divisor to get a fair value for the entire collection. Consigning avoids the need to tackle the difficult art of coin photography, and avoids the need to build up feedback. It will cost a percentage, but it will help establish a truer sense of fair value for the entire collection.

To be fair, make the selections on a semi-random, semi-representative basis. Use dice or some kind of random selection at times, though do pick a bit of each so one low value or one high value segment or series doesn't skew the results. The money realized will also provide the first one or two installments on the payment to the cousin.

Just an idea to consider.

RegistryCoin

You may want to turn on your PM function.

storm888

"Though who buys coins in a depression?"

////////////////////////////////////////////////

Folks with piles of cash will be happy to pay cents on the dollar.





I would dump the numismatic material, hold the bullion-related stuff.

High-end/scarce items should be graded by PCGS, for maximum return.

If you think gold and silver will do well, you could put some of the
cash into an ETF through your online broker.

Many dealers will only pay walk-ins about half of CDN-prices. EBAY and
the BST board here are good outlets.

lasvegasteddy

hi,
sorry to hear about your grandpa...
onething i may pass along in pricing is that teletrade/heritage offers current realized prices aswell as ebay offers realized prices in that certain items can be watched to see what they currently sell for at hammers end.
some coins have prices that don't match any sheet price and truly have a trend price.
some coins sell less then any sheet
some coins you establish the price as they are off the sheets.
"special coins-the right 2 bidders and your jaw may drop"
maybe what was left was merely common...maybe not all i know if it's a big lot.
it may truly take awhile doing research if you are to be fair as some may need to be certified just so you know they are real (hence your 09-s),
some may need to be certified due to the condition rarity of that date/mint mark.
a cherry pickers guide could far exceed it's purchase price too

i'm no pro by any means and merely hope you the best and offer you above to consider

gyocomgd

You seem like a nice fellow, even if you did lift my old Patton avatar.

291fifth

Package each coin in an unmarked 2x2 envelope. Flip a coin to see whether you or your cousin draws first. Pick an envelope each until they are all gone.

This will solve several problems:

1. The value will very likely come out just about equal without having to evaluate each coin.

2. Both of you will then be free to do with your coins as you please.

Do not under any circumstances consign the coins to an unknown individual, such as someone who posts on this forum.

Do not consign to a "brick and mortar" dealer unless there is a very clear written agreement in place.

Do not sell anything until you have a good feeling for the true value of the coins.

If you want decent money for the coins you are going to have to work at it. Don't be trusting!!!

Once you have liquidated the coins, buy a Certificate of Deposit with the money and learn about other investments. Don't buy more coins or bullion related items unless you really understand the market.

Outhaul

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>Package each coin in an unmarked 2x2 envelope. Flip a coin to see whether you or your cousin draws first. Pick an envelope each until they are all gone. >>



Is this a joke?

BN has indexed the entire collection and has purchased price guides and discussed with at least some reasonably knowledge dealer and you believe the best solution for allocating it between two parties is random chance?

DRG

Since you have already inventoried and graded all of the coins and you have a reference for the prices, this is what I would do.

1) List all of the coins with grade and price per the RED BOOK (realizing this is NOT what you would realistically be able to sell most of the coins for).
2) You and your cousin sit down together and each of you pick one coin at a time, starting with the most expensive coins, adding up each others total values as you go.
3) When you get toward the end of the collection divide the last of the coins so that each of the groups have the same value. Unless there are no inexpensive coins this should be fairly easy.
4) If you can not both easily sit down together (he lives on the other side of the country), send the above information to him and have him split the entire collection, site unseen (no pictures), according to the above plan.
5) Once the coins are divided give him his coins and you keep yours.
6) Do NOT offer to sell his coins for him or to buy them from him!!

The nice thing about this plan is that it does not matter what reference book you use for the price or if you are way off on your grades. As long as you use the same standard for grading and the same price guide, it does not matter if you use the RED BOOK or the BLUE BOOK, since all you are doing is balancing one half of the collection against the other.

You are absolutely right that if you use a reference guide to decide on a "buy out" price for his half of the coins it will be all but impossible to get it right. Either you will overpay because you overgraded the coins and missed defects and then compounded the problem buy paying full retail, or you will under grade some rare varieties and use low wholesale numbers making him think you ripped him off intentionally. It is a recipe for a family disaster that can easily be avoided

You should share what you know about selling coins, but let him handle the transactions. Listing the coins on the "Buy & Sell" forum (preferably with pictures is a great, low cost way of selling the coins). It is true that the keys should be certified, but with good photos the experts here will pay reasonable prices, particularly if you have a reasonable return policy.

The only other alternative to the above is selling ALL of the coins and splitting the proceeds. The draw backs are that this does not allow you to keep the sentimental coins, is a lot of hard work and opens you up to suspicion if you do decide to keep any of the coins (that you will inevitably either overpay for or get at a rip on, if and when they do appreciate in value). Leaving you in a lose lose situation.

The old saying. "No Good Deed Goes Un-Punished" applies all too well to the situation that you are in. While your cousin says that he just wants the cash, and I am sure that he trusts you, and you deserve the trust, doing anything other than dividing the coins equally as soon as possible is far more likely to split your family apart than it is to bring you all together.

Best of luck!

Dave

Coxe

Perhaps, depending on what you arrive at for the overall collection value, it would be best to have a formal (non-buying) third party itemized appraisal of the coins. That will protect you from at least suspicion down the road since there is a split to occur. Then maybe choose the items that you would like to retain in memory of your grandfather. Buy them outright and put the proceeds into the kitty. That should be satisfying to both of you and limit your retention to what is really financially rational. Finally, sell the the entire collection through whatever means are appropriate (complete auction consignment, BST, eBay, some mix, ...) and split the money. Listing the appraisal inventory on the BST forum, at least initially, might sell a number of them easily and commission-free. Having the images you are getting really helps to conduct such business. Good luck!

jmski52

Since you have already inventoried and graded all of the coins and you have a reference for the prices, this is what I would do.

1) List all of the coins with grade and price per the RED BOOK (realizing this is NOT what you would realistically be able to sell most of the coins for).
2) You and your cousin sit down together and each of you pick one coin at a time, starting with the most expensive coins, adding up each others total values as you go.
3) When you get toward the end of the collection divide the last of the coins so that each of the groups have the same value. Unless there are no inexpensive coins this should be fairly easy.
4) If you can not both easily sit down together (he lives on the other side of the country), send the above information to him and have him split the entire collection, site unseen (no pictures), according to the above plan.
5) Once the coins are divided give him his coins and you keep yours.
6) Do NOT offer to sell his coins for him or to buy them from him!!




1) Doing it this way allows you to select the ones you want based on a relative value, and it is completely fair since the coins are already graded and priced by some reference.

2) You don't have to buy expensive coins to become a coin collector. After you divide the coins, you already ARE one! Even if you don't purchase a coin for the next 20 years, you've already started learning about coins.

Welcome!

291fifth

<< <i>

<< <i>Package each coin in an unmarked 2x2 envelope. Flip a coin to see whether you or your cousin draws first. Pick an envelope each until they are all gone. >>



Is this a joke?

BN has indexed the entire collection and has purchased price guides and discussed with at least some reasonably knowledge dealer and you believe the best solution for allocating it between two parties is random chance? >>



This method of distribution makes a great deal of sense. The party with the greatest knowledge of the coins and their values has no advantage. The grandfather wanted the coins split equally and the laws of chance will almost certainly see that this is done. Obviously, both parties would have to be in agreement for this type of split to happen.

MrEureka

This method of distribution makes a great deal of sense. The party with the greatest knowledge of the coins and their values has no advantage. The grandfather wanted the coins split equally and the laws of chance will almost certainly see that this is done. Obviously, both parties would have to be in agreement for this type of split to happen.

I agree, but there is a better way. Have an expert distribute the coins in equal piles, and then flip a coin to see who gets each pile.

garsmith

Spend a little bit of money to get a professional full collection appraisal, many consignment companies will do this for you!

Shamika

<< <i>I’ve found that I enjoy the coins, but I’m not sure about collecting. >>


I hate to say it, but if you're not sure if you're a collector, then you aren't. Collectors become hooked almost instantly when the opportunity presents itself. If you force it, it will ultimately become a chore for you.

Do you have kids or plan on having kids in the future? One of them might appreciate it if you saved some of the nicer pieces for him/her.

Rob85635

<< <i>Do not under any circumstances consign the coins to an unknown individual, such as someone who posts on this forum. >>



I mean no disrespect and you certainly are entitled to this opinion but I must disagree with part of what you are saying. I see a great many posters to this forum that consign as well as online consigners that have very reputable businesses. Consigning is certainly ONE way of dealing with the problem of liquidating this collection if this is what he wants to do.

I would of course recommend he thoroughly research any company or individual he might be considering, but to make a blanket statement that consigning to anyone on the boards or an unknown person or business is wrong, is, well, just wrong.

I think with GOOD RESEARCH and recommendations from others who have consigned he might well find someone very honest who will make the best of his collection if he decides to go this route. Consignment of course is just one option, but if it is an option chosen, I believe both he and whoever he works with can work together to make the most of collection for his family and at the same time respect his grandfather and his wonderful collection.

If I was a non collector and was in need of liquidating a large collection of something of value, I would certainly consider consignment if I thought I could not do it myself, sell it for a profit online (ebay, etc.). Of course the best way to go is to do it yourself, but sometimes some taks require the assistance of others with more knowledge than yourself.

Just an opinion.

Respectfully,

Rob the Newbie

moonshine

Since 'cuz' has already expressed a NON-interest for any coins, and you expressed an interest in keeping some - I do not find it unfair for your to choose your half of the coins first and then give them the same cash value amount of coins once you are done choosing your monetarily even half. Then you can do with yours what you wish - keep some/sell some.

I'd keep a few that you like, especially any silver gold items. Sell the rest in various ways or whatever you have time for. You can decide if you want to pay a percentage to have someone else sell them for you - but I agree the BST board is quickest way to go - however, most of those on BST will want 'deals' and discounts, so you would be better of listing them on eBay yourself if you want to maximize the return. You could then post a list of what you are running on the BST.

Additionally, you have put a lot of time and money into this, so be sure do deduct the appropriate amount for your half. Be sure to write it all down for cuz to see - hours spent research/hours spent photographing, cost of all books, etc., etc. (similar to an executor of will receiving monetary compensation for handling things.)

It is true - that whichever means you use to price coins doesn't matter as much as using the same exact means for all of the coins. In other words - don't price some with redbook and others with bluebook.

What I do, is research each coin via eBay ended auctions, and compare with Redbook, and PCGS Price guide, and decide upon an average of the going eBay rate/actual value. You can also use Heritage and have a four way average. Then write the price on the back of each photograph that you have come up with for 'that' coin.

After that is done - pick your half/monetarily even. Give cuz his coins to sell unless you wish to charge him a commission to sell. I don't see why you should be stuck doing all the work - it is very time consuming, as I am sure you have found out.

jmski52

Have an expert distribute the coins in equal piles, and then flip a coin to see who gets each pile.


This would be fine as long as neither one cares about any of the coins, but if either one eventually decides that they want to collect coins, or even to keep a certain coin (for whatever reason), it doesn't allow for any personal choices.

Since arbitrary values have been assigned, they should be able to work out an equitable monetary split by simple agreement. Give the cousin access to the same reference materials if any questions arise.

Since neither one is an expert, it's best not to complicate. If one likes Standing Liberty Quarters and the other likes Morgans, why wouldn't you allow them to select the ones they want, based on some method of valuation? It might make collectors out of both, and maybe that's what their Grandfather would have wanted too.

I suspect that the more time they both spend looking over the collection, the more likely it is that each will select something meaningful for himself.

BN

<< <i>You seem like a nice fellow, even if you did lift my old Patton avatar. >>



Yeah, it's the family name... so I chose that.

BlindedByEgo

I can appreciate the time that you have spent on this issue... I can't tell you how many times I've seen collections like this just lugged into a store, the holder looking for a quick cash out.

Many good suggestions have been made on how to maximize your return - grading, consigning, etc. For the split, I suppose that it doesn't much matter which guide you use, as long as you are consistent, since the collection will be split based on value. The problem is greater than what guide you use - it is going to be what GRADE you use. Find a trusted expert.

You will be contacted by many good people once you enable your private messages. Maybe a few not so good. The great thing about these forums is that they are easy to research. Search by name the respondants. Make a few PM's. Go slow. Ask for, and check, references.

As far as where to put your money? Dang, sorry, the crystal ball is on the blink again

topstuf

PAY for an appraisal. Then take turns choosing. It doesn't matter who has an interest in coins if the donor intended it to be SPLIT EVENLY.
If one sells and one keeps, fine.
The numismatically inclined heir can PURCHASE from the other heir. If he's that serious about wanting one. If the appraisal is legit ....and that means an offer to PURCHASE... then just plain swapping would work if the values are equal.

66Tbird

Split using one price guide then flip for which pile. If he Is hell bend on selling then have him let you know before he dumps it for what he was offered. Then if you what it, offer 10% more for the buyout. Both win and it stays in the family.

I have seen this story not go this direction and bad feeling abound because of it. In my case I was ask to split my fathers bullion. (dozen BU (64)Kennedy rolls). Sister took her half to the coin shop and got 5x face on a 7x day. I had told her that I would pay much more than offered, but since she (and others) knew I'm into coins they figured I'd be pulling the rip. In her mind, and other family members' the only ethical thing was to leave me out of the picture on her half. When they heard what I made on just one of my rolls they were very upset about the situation and how it went down. Their own suspicion and lack of trust along with pure greed killed their small fortune. All I wanted was the best deal for my sister, all she did was listen to the uneducated (on the subject matter) peanut gallery. The only one the made out was the coin shop that got six dead prefect OBW rolls at 30% under spot.

SanctionII

Hello and Welcome.

Your situation is similar to another person who recently found this forum and posted to it. His handle is Darth5oh. He posted 2 threads, one in January, 07 and thread in March, 07. The first thread was pulled at his request. The second thread is titled "Recently Acquired Coin Collection, The Return" and it is still on the forums. It his a link to the first thread. Both threads total over 750 replies which cover all aspects of what a person in your position is going through and how to approach it.

If you have the time and interest, please read Darth5oh's two threads. Doing so will give you invaluable information. The persons who post replies to this thread will also give very helpful advice.

If you get a chance, please favor us with a summary of the coins in your grandfather's collection and pictures if possible. You may be sitting on a very valuable collection. If you are in no rush to liquidate, spending time learning about what you have will help you tremendously down the road when you liquidate the collection.

Good luck.

CarlWohlforth

I enjoy all the suggestions on how to split the collection!

If you both wanted cash then I like RedTiger's idea.

Since you want a keepsake you should keep a coin that really is special to you and/or was special to your grandfather. Since you want metals to hedge inflation is makes sense for you to keep any silver and gold that is valued at bullion prices.

It seems fair to me to divide things by price if you use the same price guide for everything. Every guide has inaccuracies and inconsistencies by these should average out. I would use the greysheet since you have that.

FarmerBill

My suggestion on how to deal with this would be for you to pick the coins out of the collection that you want keep and take them to a couple local dealers and see how much they will offer you for them. Bring cuz along if you can. Remember you are after a buy price not an appraisal. Offer your cuz half the amount in cash of the high bid. If your cousin has no interest in the coins odds are if you tried to split the collection down the middle he would take his half to one of these dealers anyway. Its very hard to get anywhere near retail prices on a collection so why should you let some dealer profit on stuff you really want. For the less desirable stuff ( rolls,proof sets,duplicates etc.) break it into 2 piles and let cuz choose first. He will probably take his half back to one of the coin shops and sell it to them right away anyway. I have a friend who just went through the same situation and this is what worked for him. My .02

BN

Howdy all -

OK, so I've read over everyone's reply's and got a number of ideas from them.

A few points to note if it matters, my cousin lives in MI, I'm in CO. He's got no interest at all in the coins and says that he trusts me to divide up the collection and just send him his cash. I've been very detailed in all of my research and have been sending him the spread sheet as it's updated. I plan on documenting all sales as well for him. I'm also scanning everything (over a 1000 coins) for both sales purposes and archival needs.

I agree on the point that I should use a single source to assess value of the coins, I need to decide if it'll be grey sheets or red book.

I can't however do the reach in a grab a coin per person approach. It's random yes, and addresses the human dynamic for fairness, but I'm just way to pragmatic to do that. Not to mention anal retentive.

I do think I will hire an outside source to appraise the grades and insure I've correctly identified the collection, but I am unsure of how to insure they are worth their salt. I've taken the pennies I mentioned earlier to a dealer just to have some grades done and he didn't catch the fake 1909S-VDB. Research there I suppose.

Oh, the thought on taking the $$ and putting it in a CD was a good one. I'd not thought of that, though it does move this money into the sights of the govt. I'd prefer to leave Ceasar out of this if I can.

I'm leaning as well towards collecting from the perspective of keeping anything pre-1900. Those really catch my interest. I'll probably hold the bullion as well. And then cash out the rest.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who gave their input.

I'll post again to this thread when I get the spread sheet online for you to review.

BN

BN

Some of the coins are posted for sale. I put them in the for sale section.
Just thought I'd do an FYI here.

http://www.mistdetroit.com/SellMyCoins/

There is much more to come. These were just easiest to post first.

BN