damn fake coin sellers

BN

Ok, some of you may recall me posting a in a another thread about possibly having a 1909S-VDB and 1909P-VDB Matte Proof.

Well I took them to ICG today and found out the 1909S is fake (altered S) and the Matte Proof just isn't. Though it was labeled as such in the collection.

Well, as Steve said "Don't get your hopes up." Yep...

Anyway, what bugs me is wondering how much my grandfather got taken for on these coins. Sure, I know you shouldn't be dumping cash unless you know exactly what your doing.

Pics here:

Matte
1909S

ziggy29

Tough break.

ICG will sniff out the added mintmark. J.P. Martin is about as good as anyone in the business at detecting counterfeit and altered coins.

BiddlesBank

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Often coins are sold unknowingly that are counterfeits. So your grandfather was probably just one of many who innocently buy coins from sellers who often don't know they are counterfeits.

Certainly grading services provide a valuable service in counterfeit detection.

My only experience with counterfeits was when I sent in some gold coins to PCGS for an old friend. The rarest one came back counterfeit. What do I know about gold? It was news to me so I researched it and sure enough I found out some cleaver trickster had done a bang up job on doing enough of them that it was a fairly well known counterfeit.

TomB

I recall the thread on the registry board and also participated in it. There are several well-known die markers for the 1909 VDB matte proof Lincoln cent and knowing these would have helped brace you for the results. At least the supposed matte proof was obtained long ago and likely without much expense.

BN

So what does one do with counterfit coins?

Should I just sell them as fake with the whole lot of large/small cents I'll be putting up for sale soon? Just mark them clearly in the listings as fake? Or is it irresponsible to allow them into the populace?

BN

TomB

You know, that is an excellent question if your motivation is to sell the coins and not collect them. Truly, I do not know what you would do with the altered 1909-S VDB.

BN

Tom -

Yeah, I was suspicious of the Matte Proof. It was the 1909S I was unprepared for. And yeah he more than likely bought these back in the 70's. I'm not sure what prices were like back then.

BN

Zoins

Maybe post super large/good photos and identify the coins as fakes. There are people that collect good fakes. Of course, it might not be too good if it ends up with a disreputable dealer instead of a collector.

BiddlesBank

<< <i>So what does one do with counterfit coins?

Should I just sell them as fake with the whole lot of large/small cents I'll be putting up for sale soon? Just mark them clearly in the listings as fake? Or is it irresponsible to allow them into the populace?

BN >>



Boy that is a tough question. It's a moral dilemma. I really can not advise another to take a huge financial loss, but I suspect it is in violation of the US federal hobby laws.

BN

Yeah, I'll have to do some searching around and screening for counterfit collectors.
I know a guy out east I can check with. We'll see what he says.

BN

GoldenEyeNumismatics

thats really a bummer.

Maybe you should try a second opinion just to be sure

hubird

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;ih=004&amp;sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&amp;viewitem=&amp;item=140101730883&amp;rd=1&amp;rd=1

Please excuse me if this doesn't show up correctly.

Does this appear to be a good fake? How about the other items listed?!

Thanks for some help...

BN

You need a close up of that "S"

The ends of the "S" should be parallel. There are other things to look for, but if you can get a close up, compare it with the pics I posted. Those are what it should NOT look like.

BN

BN

<< <i>Maybe you should try a second opinion just to be sure >>



I'm pretty sure they are correct in their assesment, he pulled out some books that showed exactly what to look for.

Some one mentioned his name above... that was the guy that looked at them.

BN

DieClash

Pics BN! Where are the pics? Please share.

Heres my '09SVDB. Hopefully it's not fake. But It would be very educational for all if we could compare. Thanks.

Edited: I missed your pic linx when if first posted this. Sorry 'bout that!

hubird

I'm too new to pennies, among other things. How do I tell if I have a matte 1909? I have a 1909 vdb, but haven't a clue more than that about it. Thanks for the assistance...

BN

Do a search on all forums for "1909 Matte Proof" and "1909 VDB", you'll find some info there.

bed time now.... zzzzzzzzz