I just examined a group of Charlotte and Dahlonega gold....
SethChandler
Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭✭
all of it was NGC holdered in various grades of AU. Every single piece was scrubbed to death. Just looks like someone took out a box of baking soda and went to work. As I was viewing the coins, I just kept imaging was they looked like in the pre-molested state. When will the grading services refuse to assign high end AU grades to scrubbed out crap?
Seth
Seth
Collecting since 1976.
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Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Was it only C and D stuff or any CC stuff with a bunch of saints?
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>all of it was NGC holdered in various grades of AU. Every single piece was scrubbed to death. Just looks like someone took out a box of baking soda and went to work. As I was viewing the coins, I just kept imaging was they looked like in the pre-molested state. When will the grading services refuse to assign high end AU grades to scrubbed out crap?
Seth >>
Sadly, this is very typical.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Untouched southern gold is becoming tougher to find. And if you own a piece or two, keep it dirty.
The pieces I was offered were of similar quality. NGC southern gold grading is absolutely horrible.
They should be held accountable...but instead what will happen is that they will stay in the overgraded holders, get sold at premium money to unsuspecting collectors, get resold for a loss. Rinse...repeat.
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
apologies for chiming in so late, but I wanted to provide some examples of un-messed with Charlotte gold, in NGC holders. My reason for posting them is because I believe much of the problem here rests squarely on NGC's shoulders. When I received these two coins back, there was a note from NGC stating that the coins were good candidates for, and would benefit (i.e. grade higher) from conservation at NCS. Of course, I didn't bite... but you can see how one could easily be enticed to resubmit, via NCS, to acquire that higher grade, especially if your main goal is to turn the coin around for a profit.
I agree that original, un-scrubbed southern gold is getting harder & harder to find. At the Baltimore show, I scoured (No pun intended!) the floor, looking for an original 1850-C $5 in XF40 - AU55 grades. I found two in XF-45... both in NGC holders... one had '45 detail, but scrubbed to death and the other looked like a VF-30 at best and again, totally scrubbed out. I think Doug Winter hit it on the nose when he stated that soon (if not already) an original XF-45 coin will command a higher price than a scrubbed out AU-50 or AU-53.
Here are the two $5's NGC recommended I send in for conservation, and...
please, just say "no" to scrubby gold!
'dude
1854C NGC AU-53
1856C NGC XF-45
Here goes. Despite what many dealers may tell you, I have shown time and again here, that on average NGC grades southern gold 1/2 a grade higher than PCGS. I would also add, that they are more consistent in their grading, so the bulk of the dealer submissions go to the place where they are more likely to get the higher grade, first. It makes total sense for this to happen.
Most southern gold is priced such there is a decent jump in the price guides from XF-45 to AU-55. If you take a typical date Charlotte or Dahlonega $5 in XF-45, you are talking about a $2200-2500 coin (retail). If you can get it into an AU-53 or 55 holder, you are now in the $4000-5000 range. For the crackout dealer, it is well worth one's while to find XF coins that have a lot of detail for the XF grade, add some luster, and make a tidy profit.
Additionally, most of the original, nice-for-grade stuff is off the market, and most of the ugly, shiny, overgraded stuff is hard to sell, and you have a situation whereby most of what most people see on the market is the crap. (This can probably be said for many other series as well.)
Now, for those of you who think that I am a Koo-Aid drinker and all, there are some real overgraded pigs in PCGS holders, too and more problem coins (cleaned and puttied, especially) in PCGS holders than NGC holders, in my experience.
Finally, there are plenty of nice original southern gold coins in NGC holders. Two of my favorite coins in my collection (below) are in NGC holders and are both about as original as they come.
CharlotteDude: Beautiful coins...I would love to have 1 example that nice.
RYK: Awesome as well....that 1803 is about as original as is gets for gold!!!!
BTW...The 1803 reminds me of an example I saw in one of Doug Winter's articles.....maybe even the same coin(?).
Anyway..great coins guys. Cheers.
AF
Yes, it is the same coin.
<< <i>CharlotteDude: Beautiful coins...I would love to have 1 example that nice.
RYK: Awesome as well....that 1803 is about as original as is gets for gold!!!!
BTW...The 1803 reminds me of an example I saw in one of Doug Winter's articles.....maybe even the same coin(?).
Anyway..great coins guys. Cheers.
AF >>
AF, I completely agree. Some of the coins posted on these boards are amazing (especially the southern stuff). I would love to have something anywhere near as nice as CD or RYK's southern gold.
BTW, welcome to the boards.
I agree w/RYK in that NGC is more consistent than PCGS in its grading, unfortunately IMO, they're more consistently lax. Yes, you do see problem coins in PCGS holders. I guess the bottom line is that it depends on the individual as to what a problem coin is. I see vastly more scrubbed out coins in NGC holders than PCGS. To me scrubbed means cleaned... shined up, lifeless or hairlined... it's been cleaned. On the other hand you tend to see more puttied coins in PCGS holders, but the percentage of puttied/cleaned coins in PCGS holders to scrubbed, cleaned and/or overgraded coins in NGC holders on the market today just doesn't compare.
And no... I really don't care for the kool-aid.
Just my observation...
'dude