OK, I need a little education here.

leothelyon

Hi everyone or whomever is up at this hour. Placed a couple of bids in the recent Baltimore B&M auctions but did not meet the reserve before the floor and live internet bidding took place. Now after the auctions, they show that I have a high bid in one auction. I realize we have dicussed this before but how in the sam-dickens did I win a action when I was told that my last bid did not meet the reserve?
I would also like to know why 33 of the 80 Jefferson nickel auctions did not sell when in fact they appeared to have sold during the live bidding that took place. Do they actually make people believe that a coin has received bids or is receiving bids to get you to bid? This really sucks and I don't believe I'll ever participate again under such false pretensions if this is true.

Leo

pb2y

You may be the victum of shill bidding. A thing like this can be worse than Ebay

leothelyon

It started at $128, placed a bid and the reserve was not met. Placed another and did not meet reserve so I passed. Now if they're saying I have now won without meeting the reserve, something is fishy here. I'll buy the lot at $128 or at my first bid since it appears that I've outbid myself at least once. What a bunch of crap!


Leo

leothelyon

Ok, I just got educated! Found the email from them in my junk file! They honestly say that my last bid was close enough to the reserve that they lowered it to make me the winner. (where's the emoticon guy blowing the party whistle?) And that I'm under no obligation to buy.
Decisions......decisions.......stay tuned!


Leo

Barry

Sometimes that happens. Either they contacted the seller and asked if he'd accept the bid, or on an expensive coin, if it's close to reserve, the auction house may accept the bid and eat the difference themself.

Bajajim

Had similar experience with Heritage but, in my case, I received a phone call indicating that the seller would offer the coin at my bid price which was below reserve.

garsmith

I was contacted once by an auction house, after the auction had ended, and told that my max bid was just below the reserve. They asked if I was willing to meet the reserve, I said no I had placed my max. An hour later they contacted me again and told me the seller would accept my max bid!

So smoetimes things like this happen!

jmski52

Thanks for the education. This is a very interesting post. I would be interested to find out exactly what happened to all those nickels, too.

Writersblock

Sometimes that happens. Either they contacted the seller and asked if he'd accept the bid, or on an expensive coin, if it's close to reserve, the auction house may accept the bid and eat the difference themself.
And sometimes the auction house IS the consignor and decide to sell for the lower amount rather than re-auction the coin.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>And sometimes the auction house IS the consignor and decide to sell for the lower amount rather than re-auction the coin. >>



I agree - though this does not seem to be widely known here in the forum.

slipgate

I don't think you are obligated to buy it since your original offer was declined. You can lower the reserve on Ebay but it can only be lowered to just above the current highest bid.

leothelyon

Bowers and Merena Auctions have a "NO RETURN POLICY" on all certifed coins! To my dismay, I was told this several times by two gals who worked there. The coins did not have pictures. I never had the chance to view them in person. I placed my bids through the internet and their website before the live auction date. It may seem that I'm a dollar short and a day late on this policy but who, in their right mind, would buy unseen certified coins without a return policy? There's your answer to why 33 out of 80.........make that 34 out of 80,,,,Jefferson nickel auctions did not sell with the Bowers and Merena Auctions. No-one wanted to get stuck with inferior coins because of this monopoly they have with certified coins. This may explain why there are so many crappy coins in those upper registry sets! I wasn't upset when they told me about the policy. I was more aghasted at their frankness that they didn't want to make a sale. What's wrong with letting the coin collector decide if the coins are acceptable! If I had seen the coins personally then all would be fine but they wanted me to buy something I had no idea whatsoever on how they look! They wanted me to buy something that had been graded by someone else. That I would not need to worry about that seemingly so unimportant facto that us serious collectors take for granted. Yeah right! I think if I were on some heavy mind-altering drugs that I might had fell for their demeaning ploy!
I guess if there's something to learn from all this; How many collectors if you can call them that, let these auction houses decide for them what they fill their collections with. What nonsense all this is! It doesn't get any more commercialized then this folks, this monopoly these action houses think they have on collectors. If I'm buying something brand new, like a frigerator or a car, I have no problem with it getting shipped to my house. But coins? There's a great deal that could go wrong with coins and we know how inconsistent the TGS are with grading coins.
Those gals even tried to get me to pay for those coins by telling me to go ahead and send payment that if there's a problem to give them a call. I replied with a firm no, that I needed to know if I had a return policy. That's when I was redirected to another gal who told me that because I had bid and won that I needed to pay for the coins. Of course I had to tell her that I wasn't obligated to buy blah blah blah and she says, oh then, that's ok. Bye.
We all know how a coin can receive 10 different grades on 10 separate submissions and they think I'll be able to get it straightened out with some flexable grade guarantee the TGS have in place. What it is and what it could be are two totally different grade point of views, who are they going to believe? My money and I are not at someone's mercy when it comes to what I collect.
Give me a return policy or give me death!


Leo

I forgot to add; Jefferson Gems guy, if you're reading, send me those coins ($2000 worth) if you want to make a sale but don't forget the return policy!

Animalkeeper

Geez, what a miserable experience. You sound like someone who might appreciate the Heritage site. Give them a try.

(I am not affiliated with them in any way other than as a satisfied customer.)

lathmach

You probably paid too much, Leo.
Save the party favors til you get the coin and look er over.

Ray

Clutch

Speaking of bids, why do these doinker-brain sellers on eBay put coins up for sale with, for example, a starting bid of $65 .... and a "Buy it Now" option for $67 ---

Here's one on there now.

Starting bid: $235
Buy It Now $265

These type of ratio's are all over on eBay. It's crazy. Why dont they just list a price, and skip the ruse of "bidding?"

Writersblock

Leo, a word of advice. READ the terms of sale for any auction. Most of the auction houses have a clause that negates the return of certified coins, or many other clauses which can be a nasty surprise to an unaware collector. To a very large extent, other than for questions of authenticity, coins sold by the major auction houses are basicly not returnable.

fanofcoins

Leo, you're way off base on this one. You're supposed to decide whether or not you like the coin BEFORE you bid, not after. Once you've bid, the deal is done. You probably have lost your bidding privileges with them.
-m

DUIGUY

Great thread! Many ways to skin a cat , many ways to dump inferior product onto collectors , hope the major auction houses see this thread and sit up and take notice . No name is ever to big to bring shame upon themselves. The fact remains , the higher one flys , the farther one falls .

rec78

Too bad Bowers and Merena isn't Bowers and Merena anymore.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>

<< <i>And sometimes the auction house IS the consignor and decide to sell for the lower amount rather than re-auction the coin. >>



I agree - though this does not seem to be widely known here in the forum. >>

MacCrimmon

<< <i>Leo, a word of advice. READ the terms of sale for any auction. Most of the auction houses have a clause that negates the return of certified coins, or many other clauses which can be a nasty surprise to an unaware collector. To a very large extent, other than for questions of authenticity, coins sold by the major auction houses are basicly not returnable. >>



Try European auctions...many negate the return, PERIOD!!

.....or they'll allow an exchange for credit on future bidding.

Frankcoins

Auctions are NOT retail sales and not approval sales. There is generally no right of return. If you wish to have a return privilege, you can buy from their fixed price lists.

leothelyon

<< <i>You may be the victum of shill bidding. A thing like this can be worse than Ebay >>



Do you think? They'd never do that!


You probably paid too much, Leo

Leo, you're way off base on this one. You're supposed to decide whether or not you like the coin BEFORE you bid, not after. Once you've bid, the deal is done. You probably have lost your bidding privileges with them.

Yes guys, I took a chance and also had a change of heart of which I won't disclose here. And initially, I was ready to pay had I met any reserve. But since I didn't as I've stated twice in my earlier posts, I was not under any obligation to buy anything. Since the ball was in my court, I wanted a return policy.

Auctions are NOT retail sales and not approval sales. There is generally no right of return. If you wish to have a return privilege, you can buy from their fixed price lists.

Right'ch you are and I've made that mistake only once with such rules.

Leo

leothelyon

There's your answer to why 33 out of 80.........make that 34 out of 80,,,,Jefferson nickel auctions did not sell with the Bowers and Merena Auctions. No-one wanted to get stuck with inferior coins

Make that 35 out of 80! Jefferson Gems just took another hit with the 1949 PCGS MS65FS. I don't understand how a bid can go
from $2580 to 2967 and not sell. Obvioiusly, the reserve was too high and then they lowered it meet someone's bid. I have a feeling Jefferson Gems was one of those spirited early-on bidders of 2-3 years back. When nearly half your collection doesn't sell due to
high reserves, this should send an alarm to those folks who have a ton of money wrapped up in those pop tops.
From the pictures, the 1938-S PCGS MS67FS that sold for $9200 didn't appear to have full steps. Me thinks this coin is heading west.


Leo