Chicago Sun Times Trip Report
Boopotts
Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
Well, I just returned home from the Sun Times Show. Left around 7:30 this morning, got there around 12:00, and left around 6:30. I'd considered staying overnight but decided it probably wasn't worth it. A few observations.
1) The PSA booth looked pretty jammed. The GAI booth less so. If the Newport Beach office looks anything like their booth did then it's no wonder there isn't a 'FIFO' policy for card grading, since the booth looked like a total mess. Stuff laying on the ground, a couple guys looking at something on laptops at the tables near the back, and a steady procession of tired looking women streaming in and out from behind the curtain. It looked like they'd had a looonnggg day.
2) Brian Urlacher must be utterly revered in the city of Chicago. I don't know how many replica Urlacher jerseys I saw guys wearing, but it numbered well into the dozens.
3) I have a new level of respect for the guys on here who complain about dealers at card shows. My experience with card show dealers-- at least my experience in the last four years-- has pretty much been limited to the monthly Gibraltar shows here in Detroit, where I'm pretty friendly with all the dealers I do regular business with, and with the Canadian dealers at the Toronto show, who are-- well, who are Canadians, which means they're genetically predisposed to be friendly and gracious. But the dealers at the Sun Times show were a different breed entirely. And the prices--ugh. Every third booth it seemed had a 1974 Lou Brock in PSA 8 priced at $25-$30, along with the customary piles of EX-MT HOFers hiding in the showcases in Card Savers that were priced at full book. Does anyone buy these cards? And if they do, how do you choose who to buy from, since everyone has the exact same cards at the exact same prices? Imagine a strip mall that has 14 Target stores lined up side by side and you'll get a pretty good feel for the (lack of) inventory diversity amongst the dealers at this show. I went looking for two things, really; Oddball cards of HOFers from about 1985 on up and 70's hockey in NM-MT, and pretty much struck out on both counts. The closest I came to making a deal was with a guy who had a handful of 1985 Kitty Clover discs in mint condition, but when he said he wanted $75 for the Schmidt I decided to keep looking around.
3) The busiest booths, by far, seemed to be those belonging to guys selling modern boxes. There was a TON of traffic at those tables, and a lot of pack ripping going on at the concession tables. The Turkey Reds seemed to be a particularly popular rip, and there were lots of dads ripping packs with their kids, which I thought was a good sign. I didn't see a single graded card exchange hands the entire show, although admittedly I wasn't looking very hard at others' transactions. But I have to think peddling slabbed cards at a 100%-150% mark-up on Ebay prices is a tough sell. I also think I saw the notorious Levi-- at least I saw a guy wearing a top hat on the backside of 50 in the 707 booth, so I assumed that was him--but his detractors will be happy to hear that I didn't exactly see a throng of traffic at his table.
Anyway, it was a nice trip. I doubt I'll return, but it was fun to go at least once, and the drive down-- while long--was pleasant enough. If anyone is looking to complete an Ex-mt baseball set from 1954 to 1975 they will be thrilled with the selection at this show. Otherwise you could probably spend your time and money elsewhere.
1) The PSA booth looked pretty jammed. The GAI booth less so. If the Newport Beach office looks anything like their booth did then it's no wonder there isn't a 'FIFO' policy for card grading, since the booth looked like a total mess. Stuff laying on the ground, a couple guys looking at something on laptops at the tables near the back, and a steady procession of tired looking women streaming in and out from behind the curtain. It looked like they'd had a looonnggg day.
2) Brian Urlacher must be utterly revered in the city of Chicago. I don't know how many replica Urlacher jerseys I saw guys wearing, but it numbered well into the dozens.
3) I have a new level of respect for the guys on here who complain about dealers at card shows. My experience with card show dealers-- at least my experience in the last four years-- has pretty much been limited to the monthly Gibraltar shows here in Detroit, where I'm pretty friendly with all the dealers I do regular business with, and with the Canadian dealers at the Toronto show, who are-- well, who are Canadians, which means they're genetically predisposed to be friendly and gracious. But the dealers at the Sun Times show were a different breed entirely. And the prices--ugh. Every third booth it seemed had a 1974 Lou Brock in PSA 8 priced at $25-$30, along with the customary piles of EX-MT HOFers hiding in the showcases in Card Savers that were priced at full book. Does anyone buy these cards? And if they do, how do you choose who to buy from, since everyone has the exact same cards at the exact same prices? Imagine a strip mall that has 14 Target stores lined up side by side and you'll get a pretty good feel for the (lack of) inventory diversity amongst the dealers at this show. I went looking for two things, really; Oddball cards of HOFers from about 1985 on up and 70's hockey in NM-MT, and pretty much struck out on both counts. The closest I came to making a deal was with a guy who had a handful of 1985 Kitty Clover discs in mint condition, but when he said he wanted $75 for the Schmidt I decided to keep looking around.
3) The busiest booths, by far, seemed to be those belonging to guys selling modern boxes. There was a TON of traffic at those tables, and a lot of pack ripping going on at the concession tables. The Turkey Reds seemed to be a particularly popular rip, and there were lots of dads ripping packs with their kids, which I thought was a good sign. I didn't see a single graded card exchange hands the entire show, although admittedly I wasn't looking very hard at others' transactions. But I have to think peddling slabbed cards at a 100%-150% mark-up on Ebay prices is a tough sell. I also think I saw the notorious Levi-- at least I saw a guy wearing a top hat on the backside of 50 in the 707 booth, so I assumed that was him--but his detractors will be happy to hear that I didn't exactly see a throng of traffic at his table.
Anyway, it was a nice trip. I doubt I'll return, but it was fun to go at least once, and the drive down-- while long--was pleasant enough. If anyone is looking to complete an Ex-mt baseball set from 1954 to 1975 they will be thrilled with the selection at this show. Otherwise you could probably spend your time and money elsewhere.
0
Comments
If you are looking for 70's Hockey, I have a stack of Dad's Cookies for sale in Mint Condition.
What was the breakdown of vintage vs modern tables?
How many table were selling primarily PSA graded stuff?
Thanks
Unless one is going just for the live experience - that's pretty much what happens when I go to a Tristar show in Texas.
The dealers are courteous but prices are a bit high. Tho, they are amenable to dealing if one is being more than one item.
If one goes with a specific agenda - like looking for oddball items - I think shows are fun to attend.
Since I rarely want anything - I just wind up wandering around - eating a pretzel and eyeballing.
How were the autograph prices?
The last show in Houston was super expensive. Ya can do much better on ebay - and I'm talkin' PSA/DNA stuff also.
mike
The best stuff to look at was at the BBC Exchange table and the Mile High Table (some great stuff and a smoking hot girl in a mini skirt/referree shirt).
Best thing I found was a centered PSA 7 1962 Mays for $170, and someone selling PSA 7 1962 commons for $7 each. Also saw two tables where raw NM+ '62 commons were $10 each (not NM/MT) - go figure.
Actually enjoyed it more than most Sun Times shows - but that isn't saying much.
Bosox1976
<< <i>I was at the Rosemont show as well; I found two tables that were reasonably priced for vintage baseball - otherwise there was an awful lot of very high pricing. Quite a few tables of unauthenticated autos (which always bums me out). Some interesting memorabilia - but nothing spectacular.
The best stuff to look at was at the BBC Exchange table and the Mile High Table (some great stuff and a smoking hot girl in a mini skirt/referree shirt).
Best thing I found was a centered PSA 7 1962 Mays for $170, and someone selling PSA 7 1962 commons for $7 each. Also saw two tables where raw NM+ '62 commons were $10 each (not NM/MT) - go figure.
Actually enjoyed it more than most Sun Times shows - but that isn't saying much. >>
I second your observation on the girl at the mile high show. She must have felt like a minnow in a shark tank. Her legs in those black nylons (along with everything else) were unreal...
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Intereting observation from my friend who had a full sized helmet auto'd by Peyton Manning. He said that Peyton was nice enough but the promoters herded the people through like cattle. He didn't have time to shake Peyton's hand or really even say hello. I guess that $300 doesn't buy you 30 seconds for a little common courtesy.
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>Thanks for the report, BP. Did you wind up buying anything? >>
I picked up a couple strange items. One 300 ct. box of NFL hang tags from about 1993-95, a 300 ct. box of NFL Pro Mags from about the same time period,and a handful of clean '72 commons.
Thanks for the offer, but I'm looking more for NM-MT OPC stuff. Jerrywest, it broke down I'd say about 65% vintage and 35% modern.
<< <i>Thanx for the report Boo.
Unless one is going just for the live experience - that's pretty much what happens when I go to a Tristar show in Texas.
The dealers are courteous but prices are a bit high. Tho, they are amenable to dealing if one is being more than one item.
If one goes with a specific agenda - like looking for oddball items - I think shows are fun to attend.
Since I rarely want anything - I just wind up wandering around - eating a pretzel and eyeballing.
How were the autograph prices?
The last show in Houston was super expensive. Ya can do much better on ebay - and I'm talkin' PSA/DNA stuff also.
mike >>
Let me know if you come down for the Summer show. We'll have a
<< <i>
<< <i>Thanx for the report Boo.
Unless one is going just for the live experience - that's pretty much what happens when I go to a Tristar show in Texas.
The dealers are courteous but prices are a bit high. Tho, they are amenable to dealing if one is being more than one item.
If one goes with a specific agenda - like looking for oddball items - I think shows are fun to attend.
Since I rarely want anything - I just wind up wandering around - eating a pretzel and eyeballing.
How were the autograph prices?
The last show in Houston was super expensive. Ya can do much better on ebay - and I'm talkin' PSA/DNA stuff also.
mike >>
Let me know if you come down for the Summer show. We'll have a
Not planning Stown.
Would probably go again next winter - I'll LYK - and thanx!
mike
Did you buy the '72 Nm-Mt Hockey commons near the end of the show on Saturday from an older dealer about 60? Like at close to 4:30 pm? Just wondering because I was hanging out at a friends table when he made a similar sale.
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Also the hottie in the mini shirt was not at Mile High's booth, she's with Memory Lane. Brian Drent of Mile High has more class than to use a hot woman to draw people in to bid on his auctions. Obviously great to look at but a very sleazy way to promote your catalogs/auctions in my opinion. Not if she were a stripper at a club, that's a different story...... I'd have my wallet open.
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I was very lucky to find a nice PSA 8 Warfield RC on late Sat. afternoon for way under smr. If was my best and literally only find of the weekend. There were very few Football HOF'ers in PSA 8 to be found at the show. I doubt you will ever see a '63 Fleer Buoniconti 8 at a show like this. Maybe at the National, but not at the Sun-Times. Unless it's displayed for an upcoming auction lot.
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I heard that Mr. Mint recently had a heart attack. Not sure how he's doing either. He wasn't at the show. First one he's missed ever as I can recall.
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BBCexchange did have one tremendous display of unopened material. Unreal stuff. Great to catch up with Steve too.
<< <i>Hey Boo,
Did you buy the '72 Nm-Mt Hockey commons near the end of the show on Saturday from an older dealer about 60? Like at close to 4:30 pm? Just wondering because I was hanging out at a friends table when he made a similar sale.
------------------------------------------
Also the hottie in the mini shirt was not at Mile High's booth, she's with Memory Lane. Brian Drent of Mile High has more class than to use a hot woman to draw people in to bid on his auctions. Obviously great to look at but a very sleazy way to promote your catalogs/auctions in my opinion. Not if she were a stripper at a club, that's a different story...... I'd have my wallet open.
---------------------------------------------
I was very lucky to find a nice PSA 8 Warfield RC on late Sat. afternoon for way under smr. If was my best and literally only find of the weekend. There were very few Football HOF'ers in PSA 8 to be found at the show. I doubt you will ever see a '63 Fleer Buoniconti 8 at a show like this. Maybe at the National, but not at the Sun-Times. Unless it's displayed for an upcoming auction lot.
---------------------------------------------------
I heard that Mr. Mint recently had a heart attack. Not sure how he's doing either. He wasn't at the show. First one he's missed ever as I can recall.
------------------------------------------------------
BBCexchange did have one tremendous display of unopened material. Unreal stuff. Great to catch up with Steve too. >>
It wasn't me buying the '72 hockey. Do you know who was selling it? If it was Terry French then I probably already picked over it at some point in the last six months.
I also agree that there was NO vintage football. I saw a couple Chicle commons in PSA 2 or something, but that was about the extent of it. I'd say graded MLB vintage outweighed graded NFL/AFL vintage by a margin of about 20 to 1. And hockey/ basketball? Forget it.
Did you buy the '72 Nm-Mt Hockey commons near the end of the show on Saturday from an older dealer about 60? Like at close to 4:30 pm? Just wondering because I was hanging out at a friends table when he made a similar sale.
------------------------------------------
Also the hottie in the mini shirt was not at Mile High's booth, she's with Memory Lane. Brian Drent of Mile High has more class than to use a hot woman to draw people in to bid on his auctions. Obviously great to look at but a very sleazy way to promote your catalogs/auctions in my opinion. Not if she were a stripper at a club, that's a different story...... I'd have my wallet open.
---------------------------------------------
I was very lucky to find a nice PSA 8 Warfield RC on late Sat. afternoon for way under smr. If was my best and literally only find of the weekend. There were very few Football HOF'ers in PSA 8 to be found at the show. I doubt you will ever see a '63 Fleer Buoniconti 8 at a show like this. Maybe at the National, but not at the Sun-Times. Unless it's displayed for an upcoming auction lot.
---------------------------------------------------
I heard that Mr. Mint recently had a heart attack. Not sure how he's doing either. He wasn't at the show. First one he's missed ever as I can recall.
------------------------------------------------------
BBCexchange did have one tremendous display of unopened material. Unreal stuff. Great to catch up with Steve too.
////////////////////////////////
It wasn't me buying the '72 hockey. Do you know who was selling it? If it was Terry French then I probably already picked over it at some point in the last six months.
I also agree that there was NO vintage football. I saw a couple Chicle commons in PSA 2 or something, but that was about the extent of it. I'd say graded MLB vintage outweighed graded NFL/AFL vintage by a margin of about 20 to 1. And hockey/ basketball? Forget it.
Oh-- and for those who are interested the was NOBODY at the Mr. Mint table. And unlike with the Levi table I actually did keep an eye on Herr Rosen's representatives, and I never saw them make a single deal. Heck, I didn't even see them get approached by someone wanting to deal.
Seems like 80% of the people there were only interested in getting autos which has never been my thing.
Lee
I feel so bad for Mr. Mint
I was at Jim Goodfriend's table. He was located one row in from the autograph area. He has some decent '72 Hockey cards if you're ever back in the Chicago area attending a show.
I didn't see many deals go down at Mint Man's table either. That's a shame.
I heard some bad news too: that Cameo cards (Greg Fisher) had some cards stolen from his table on Saturday. Never a good thing to hear. Greg's a great guy and that was terrible to hear about. He post's here once in a while, maybe he'll chime in with the sorry details.
Regards,
Rich
I live in the second largest city in the country (Los Angeles) and I know of zero shows anywhere even remotely close. There used to be a show at Hollywood Park -- but it's dried up, I believe.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
Pete
Pete
Great story! Sounds like this was one case where the "resealer" (the store owner back in the day) only cared about moving out older product and obviously had no interest in the actual cards, which makes sense because card collecting wasn't considered a valuable pursuit at that time. Congrats on those great pulls!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Hey Boo,
I was at Jim Goodfriend's table. He was located one row in from the autograph area. He has some decent '72 Hockey cards if you're ever back in the Chicago area attending a show.
I didn't see many deals go down at Mint Man's table either. That's a shame.
I heard some bad news too: that Cameo cards (Greg Fisher) had some cards stolen from his table on Saturday. Never a good thing to hear. Greg's a great guy and that was terrible to hear about. He post's here once in a while, maybe he'll chime in with the sorry details.
Regards,
Rich >>
Ah! I know Jim. Next time you see him ask him about Guy--the blond haired dude he sees sometimes at the Gibraltar shows. I know Jim used to have a bunch of sweet '72 hockey vending, but I think I picked through it all (looking for 9's) about 2 years ago.
Bummer to hear about Greg. There were a couple guys there who got ripped off, so at least he wasn't alone.
Prices and selection were typical of large regional shows. Mastro's display of Lionel Carter's collection was impressive, as was Heritage's turn of the century Notre Dame uniform. I didn't see anything else that blew me away, and there were no steals to be had. I wasn't able to add any N162's. I almost pulled the trigger on an SGC 7 Marion Motley RC, but it was weak for the grade and I doubt it would have crossed. I didn't end up buying any cards, but I picked up some nice display pieces for my card room: a 1905 football silk pillow case just like this one, but with a little more staining, for $550. Also bought a 1934 football board game for $40 because I liked the box graphic. My dad picked up a clean Gehrig strip card for, as he told my mom, "less than the price of a pillow case."
Joe
Joe
Ron
Buying Vintage, all sports.
Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
if it wasnt for psa being there, i probably wouldnt have gone. while my focus is favre, i was impressed with the number of dealers selling more vintage cards. as much as i would love to be more involved with vintage, football mainly, i am doing my best to stick with favre only. that said i was quite disappointed in the number of dealers selling more of the modern stuff. i looked rather quickly as i had an appointment later in the day, but really only found one dealer with a nice stack of over price favres. i would have bought some but when the price was starting around $5 for a base modern card i passed on even trying to cut a deal. i did find one that i didnt have in his stack for $1. That was the only card i bought. i guess the dealers thought most people were in a baseball mood.
saw steve harts setup but was hoping he was going to have some wax or ungraded packs to buy. probably would have spent what i brought with me at his table. he only had graded packs and some sets on sunday.
i did notice one table that had nearly all of the cards singed. would have loved to have gone through them but alas no time and off my main focus.
so i spent (or will when the charge hits) nearly $1600 to have cards graded and only $1 on cards at the show.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's