What the heck are "Variation" Cards?

Jdurg

I just saw that Beckett has now included 2007 Topps into their regular online price guides (minus the prices of course. Gee, that's helpful. ) and I noticed something odd. They have "Variations" listed for certain Rookie Cards but claim they are too rare to price. Examples are #15, #20, #135, #271 and #292. I have never heard of these "Variations" before so I'm just wondering what the heck they are? These aren't the normal parallels as they don't exist for all cards in the set. Are these variations of the photos, the designs? I can't seem to find any information on these.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

link

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Can you check the OPG and see what it says about checklists? I have the full set in red and full set in green font/boxes and then found one card with lite blue.

Jdurg

You know, this type of s@#% really pisses me off. Why the hell does Topps have to go and make 'variations' of base cards in a set? For people like myself who try and collect an entire base set, this variation junk makes it damned near impossible. The same crap happened in 1999 with the Sosa/McGwire HR Chases, 2000 with the 'Magic Moments', and 2002 with the Bonds HR Chase. If you want to make variations, then fine, go ahead. At the very least you should include ALL variations in the factory sets so that "completests" like myself can get a full set. I am going to write a very long letter to Topps detailing my complaints about this. This ALMOST makes me want to give up on Topps completely. It's bad enough that they put out entire parallels of 1/1s and then each year try and come up with new parallels that they can limit so that only the filthy rich can afford to get them, but this just makes it even worse.

The OPG doesn't mention anything about checklists. It's as if they don't consider them a part of the set.

BTW, thanks for the link. I've placed a bid on the card so we'll see how high it goes. I had never heard about card variations until looking at Beckett's pricless price-guide.

Jdurg

One more thing that really gets my goat are the fifty something parallel sets that Topps puts out. This year alone we have the following;

White Backs (Base Set)
Red Backs
Gold (X/2007)
Platinum (1/1)
Copper (X/56)
First Edition (????)
Black Printing Plate (1/1)
Cyan Printing Plate (1/1)
Magenta Printing Plate (1/1)
Yellow Printing Plage (1/1)

What other parallels are they going to surprise is with this year? Were the Red Backs announced at the start of the year? Are they available in ALL packs? NOPE. If you want to get the red backs you absolutely MUST have a hobby shop near you, otherwise you'll be paying exorbinant charges on shipping when you purchase online. The other FACT is that if the boxes are being sold by hobby shops they will jack the prices up to whatever they see fit. If you're a Wal-Mart or a Target you can't sell the 'Hobby Boxes' as that just isn't allowed. This is all sickening to me.

As I said with my little variation rant above, if you are going to pull this crap on your customers at least give them the opportunity to purchase these parallels/variations in the forms of factory sets. I understand with things like the limited number parallels why you can't make factory sets of those, but for the red backs and other small parallels why don't you just make a factory set with them and state "Red Back Version" and also include all the variations? I'm just sickened knowing that Topps is going to force me to spend a god awful amount of money on the secondary market in order to complete my sets. F*&% Off Topps!

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Curious, If your trying to collect the base set then the paralells and inserts dont apply to your needs? Just the 770 or so cards? Or are you trying to collect a master set?

If they include anything "special" in factory sets it would drive down prices/demand for packs which I would assume is their money maker.

cravetopps

jdurg.......I agree. This is precisely why I avoid this stuff. I liked it when times were simpler but it appears that this is what they think it takes to keep their investors happy i.e. the sales momentum going in the right direction. Basically, they're preying on the "lottery" mentality of collectors versus the long term value approach. I think it's only going to get worse.

ajw

I see it as a good thing, as it permits people to collect what they want. If you want only the base set plus the short prints, that's fine. You don't need to worry about the inserts, variations and relic cards. Seems cool to me. If you want to go all out, like some of the other board members, that's cool, too.

Jdurg

<< <i>Curious, If your trying to collect the base set then the paralells and inserts dont apply to your needs? Just the 770 or so cards? Or are you trying to collect a master set?

If they include anything "special" in factory sets it would drive down prices/demand for packs which I would assume is their money maker. >>



Well my collection is that of a master set minus the impossibles. (I.E. the 1/1s, the relics, the autographs, etc). I do try and pick up standard variations like the gold cards from 1992-1994, the parallel inaugural sets in 1993 and 1998, the Tiffany and Limited sets, etc. I have basically been trying to put together a set of cards that you could obtain from buying packs. However, this new "lottery" system that Topps is putting out makes it nearly impossible. You can't have a complete set of Platinum parallels. You CAN'T have a complete set of the printing plates. You CAN'T have a complete set of the copper parallels. You have to work VERY hard and spend a TON of money to get the gold parallel. I just find it annoying. How many different parallels do they have to put in there? If you want to give variety to people, then that is what Heritage/Finest/Total and the other dozens of variations they have out there.

I also can not think of ANY good reason to put the variation cards in there that got me to start the thread. They make these things so god damned scarce that who knows how many of them will NEVER be found because the packs will NEVER be opened? If you're going to put something out there for the collectors, then put it somewhere that they can get it. By hiding everything in the packs who knows how many inserts/parallels will NEVER be found because interest died?

I've tried to collect the parallels and inserts of reason from their 1980 and onward base sets. Lately, that has just become impossible.

digicat

I liked the old days, where there were less than 5 inserts sets, and they 30 cards and under.

I think the Josh Gibson HR set is the WORST set I’ve ever seen so far. The only difference between the cards is the number on the front and the back. The flavor text and the pictures are all the same. At least with the Bonds and Mantle cards, they mix up the pictures a little bit.

I guess that Topps figured out that most of their customers are suffering from some level of an obsessive-compulsive hoarding disorder, and are gearing their products to that end.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

"I guess that Topps figured out that most of their customers are suffering from some level of an obsessive-compulsive hoarding disorder, and are gearing their products to that end."


Right on the money.

Jdurg

<< <i>I liked the old days, where there were less than 5 inserts sets, and they 30 cards and under.

I think the Josh Gibson HR set is the WORST set I’ve ever seen so far. The only difference between the cards is the number on the front and the back. The flavor text and the pictures are all the same. At least with the Bonds and Mantle cards, they mix up the pictures a little bit.

I guess that Topps figured out that most of their customers are suffering from some level of an obsessive-compulsive hoarding disorder, and are gearing their products to that end. >>



I agree with EVERY single thing you've stated. Bravo sir. Bravo!

Hopefully the five variations that are indicated on Beckett's website are the only five variations in the set. However, chances are that Topps went and made more variations but didn't tell anybody about them.

In other news, I think I may have gotten myself a pretty good steal on E-Bay. When searching around for other Variation cards to swipe up, I noticed someone had a Buy-It-Now of about $95.00 for a complete Series 1 set of Red-Back cards. I had seen other complete Series 1 sets going for near $200, and multiple smaller lots going for about half that of the Complete Set. Doing the math, the $104 I spent, including shipping and insurance, would equal about $0.32 per card. That's pretty good considering the only way I could get the Red-Backs would be to buy Hobby Boxes from online and spend nearly $100 on one box which wouldn't even be close to a complete set. Then, I'd need to go and fill out the missing cards and frankly, all that effort would have cost me a great deal more than $104. So I think that turned out okay. Now I just hope they didn't make red-back versions of the variations.

Jdurg

Apparently the variation cards are worth about $40.00 as that is what I wound up paying for the card that Ripkencollector linked to. Now I just need to get the other four for this series and hopes that is all that Topps made in Series 1.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Congrats on the win. I saw you had to fight a little for it. Always scary buying the 1st of anything on ebay. Sounds like a very good price to me. 1 in 3700 packs. Whats thats like one in 7 cases? Bet the others will be pricier once peopole are aware of them. Best of luck to ya.

I found another lite blue c-list so theres green,red and lite blue. Listed easiest to hardest.

Jdurg

<< <i>Congrats on the win. I saw you had to fight a little for it. Always scary buying the 1st of anything on ebay. Sounds like a very good price to me. 1 in 3700 packs. Whats thats like one in 7 cases? Bet the others will be pricier once peopole are aware of them. Best of luck to ya.

I found another lite blue c-list so theres green,red and lite blue. Listed easiest to hardest. >>



True, and according to Beckett's online price-guide the odds are 1 in 3700 Wal-Mart packs so I wonder if Topps decided to only submit these variations in Wal-Mart packs as a way to make things even MORE difficult for complete set collectors? I'm hoping to find the other 4 variations, but the worst thing is that there is nowhere to go to find out what those variations are. I've been bugging Topps every single day to try and get confirmation on what variations there are, how many there are, and for photos of them but they just don't reply.

I was getting a bit nervous towards the end of that auction, and was actually shocked that the other person didn't re-bid. I had my maximum bid about 20 bucks higher than the price I won it for even though I really didn't want to spend more than 40 on it. Thankfully, I don't think a great number of people really know about these variations since Topps never really mentioned them in ANY of their press releases or checklists.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Plus theres Target only Williams inserts and then I think theres All Rookie only in racks. Good Luck Man. Sounds like a big project.

Jdurg

<< <i>Plus theres Target only Williams inserts and then I think theres All Rookie only in racks. Good Luck Man. Sounds like a big project. >>



Thanks, I think I'll need the luck for this project. It's funny how I started out saying that I was only interested in the base sets and traded sets but not the inserts. Then when I completed my base sets I moved into parallel sets, then a small number of insert sets, and now pretty much everything. It's sick how much money I've dropped in recent weeks, but hey, that's what a tax return is for. I've been able to get some great prices and this Variation card seems to be another steal.

Estil

Basically it's where there's more than one unintentional version of the same card, but it's not really a mistake. The 1969 Mantle Yellow and White letter variations would be a good example.

Jdurg

Since I buy most of my Topps through Wal-Mart, I'm now going through my duplicates and pulling out any that might have a variation. I also see that I have a bunch of No Name On Front Generation Now cards.

Estil

And on this subject, I'll just stick with the standard issue Topps set thank you. Though I still need the 2005 and 2006 ones. The other stuff I only go up to 1997 on Finest and 1995 on the other brands.

digicat

So, has anyone seen any of these photo variations besides the Delmon Young card that just ended on Ebay?

Jdurg

Nope. Beckett lists five cards with variations but only gives specifics on the Delmon Young variation. No data on any others.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

In addition to the Wal-Mart and Target inserts I just learned theres K-Mart ones too.

2007 Topps Generation Now Arrives (Beckett has them listed as Vintage)
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Ryan Howard GNV1
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Jeff Francoeur GNV2
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Nick Swisher GNV3
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Joey Gathright GNV4
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Jhonny Peralta GNV5
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Willy Taveras GNV6
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Cory Sullivan GNV7
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Chris Young GNV8
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Jered Weaver GNV9
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Jonathan Papelbon GNV10
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Russell Martin GNV11
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Hanley Ramirez GNV12
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Justin Verlander GNV13
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Matt Cain GNV14
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Kenji Johjima GNV15
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Angel Pagan GNV16
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Brandon Phillips GNV17
2007 Topps Generation Now Vintage Mark Teahen GNV18

Whats next? Wait, I have another call............It was Topps, my company will now have them too. I work in Agriculture so the insert will be named "From the field to the field". Its about players who were raised around crops.

digicat

I'm waiting for them to start printing the new "Numbers of the Game" cards.


#1 - One
#2 - Two
#3 - Three
#4 - Four
#5 - Five
#6 - 666 ("Oops, how did that happen", comes in the full card version, and the cut-out version, where they attempted to "correct" the card)

No pictures, just numbers. Of couse, these cards will have refractor, x-fractor, atomic refractor, atomic x-fractor, gold, blue, orange, and green variants.

Jdurg

It's disgusting, isn't it. Back in the late 80's and early 90's it was the overproduction of the base cards that killed the hobby, and now these days it's the glut of different insert sets that kill the hobby. If you're a completest and you don't have a K-Mart or Target around you, forget it. You'll have no chance at some of these inserts. If you're like me and there are no hobby shops around you, you can 100% forget about pulling a large number of inserts.

The worst thing is, you know that with a LOT of these series Topps will continue them on in Series 2 as well. So you'll spend a ton trying to complete them for series 1, then series 2 and series 3 (Traded/Updates) comes out and you're just flooded. If I do complete all the inserts this year (The reasonable ones at least) I can pretty much guarantee that the number of insert/exclusive cards will be MORE than the base set! So now the base set becomes an insert set!

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Update-Just Added

Superfractor
Red


and the newest of the new.....
The card with a actual piece of a card in it thats vintage. Yep, thats right you too can own a piece of a 52 Mantle.


Dont forget the Baddest of them all....... "Bad Autos" featuring autos cut from players checks that have bounced.


Whats that? You want more? Sure!!!!!!!!!-new 08 Topps in partnership with Photoshop you too can be the Dugout for only $19.95. All cards are numbered 1/1

But wait theres more.........Tired of striking out, getting a auto and the card layout isnt what you expected. Well this is for you. New Rare Randomly inserted in 1 in 2 packs is a autographed sticker. Put them on your cards, your bike, your friends, your friends card bike.

Order now and for free (add $9.95 shipping) well throw in the item everyone is talking about. Yes the rumors are true. In every case of 08 Topps is a pre-paid cell phone. Each phone is pre set with a MLB players phone number. Mad about that bad play or want to congratulate a player? You can now tell them how much of a fan you are.

Order today, supplies arent limited. Void in countries that make trouble. All applicable sales taxes apply and dont delay order today. Cuz we'll probally have something cooler tomorrow.

edited to add a '

Jdurg

Also, exclusive to Topps Series 2 Baseball Cards, new Generation DNA Inserts!!! These relics contain small vials full of actual semen from the player on the card, as well as a piece of their flesh. Now you can clone your favorite player AND have his children if you want! Each DNA Relic is limited to just one sample, unless the player was particularly lonely. We won't be telling you which players donated, so you'll have the fun of wondering if you are quite done yet with your collection!!!

jamesgotpoorman

two new varations?

ORANGE

What is with this moral trip that people are on about the collecting.
I read talk of how things are out of control with the number of sets and the parallels and that the good cards came from way back when.

The old cards are all a dime a dozen no matter how far you go back through the sixties and even into the fifties.
Nowadays there are so few of some cards that it really got me interested last year when I discovered this.

I am catching on to a wave of resentment about the lottery style hobby as it is and also about the sport in general.
If you cant afford a ton of lottery tickets why not go buy some winners for 5 bucks on ebay?

Now we're in the true golden age of the sport where all the technologies are more intense than ever. The scale of the sports and the size of the athletes and their egos is beyond anybody from before's greatest dreams. The sport is at its healthiest and the future has a very good chance of getting scaled down by fuel restrictions and other things.
If there's any economy in the future at all this set of cards from these times right now will be the most high demand for their scarcity and the grandeur of the times. Way better than the crappy NY dominated 50s and 60s.

I have one of the ultimate collections around that's totally organized with all cards in alphabetical order of star players. This collection covers about fifty years and of course is heaviest in the 80s and 90s so it's totally undervalued but they took a long time to put that way so they have value for that reason. Not that anyone would acknowledge that value but you don't see me go around whining about the morality of people who don't!

I don't understand your problem with Barry Bonds either. People who give in like McGwire, Canseco and Palmeiro I could understand your disappointment. Not Bonds and not Giambi those guys are the best cause they plowed right through the walls and still survive.

-------------------------
ORANGE

I'd hate to have my well thought out and structured response to this post get deleted.

1989FleerBillRipkencollector

Glad to see another collector on here.

Bonds? Who mentioned him here?

Cards from 50's 60's are expensive if in top condition.

Some get frustrated by the number of inserts and some ridiculous practices. Intentional errors, game used cards that have dirt from home plate, GU jersey but its a tag from his hat etc. The high price point and sheer volume pf parallels and inserts makje it frustrating for some set completists.

ORANGE

O.k, forget the part about Bonds... He is one of the greats to play the game but forget it... it has nothing to do with the thing about the parallels
I don't find there to be too many problems with parallels... I get sick of how many kinds of sets there are though... I heard someone say last year that there were going to be two companies upper deck and topps and they would be allowed to come out with 11 card types each...
I don't see why there need to be so many types, but I don't care so much. The parallels are not the problem for me. I love the refractor cards I think theyre cool as heck. I do wish they wouldn't put out quite so many Mantle cards. they're less interesting than the stay in school inserts.