How to tell if a silver bar is fake?
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ledzep87
Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭
What are some ways to tell if a bar is fake or has been tampered with.
I remember a thread that talked about Engelhard bars being filled with lead but can not find the thread...
I remember a thread that talked about Engelhard bars being filled with lead but can not find the thread...
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should be able to determine the difference. I mean, a pound of lead weighs less than
a pound of silver, right?
bob
my humor for the weekend, thanks ledzep!
A simple "ring" test is the easiest. Put the bar on a stationary tube or platform and gently tap the bar. On a solid silver bar the ring will be undeniably musical. On a lead filled bar, or otherwise tampered with bar, you will get more of a thud sound. Other tests include a specific gravity test or by simply examining the edges for signs of drilling/plugging.
Edited to add: a 100 ounce bar should weigh 6.86 pounds if .999 silver.
<< <i>What are some ways to tell if a bar is fake or has been tampered with.
I remember a thread that talked about Engelhard bars being filled with lead but can not find the thread...
Ask John J. Ford. Wait a second....he's dead. Oh yeah, he was an expert on gold bars anyway....sorry!!
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
<< <i>I believe they are marked with the number of ounces and fineness. A quick weigh
should be able to determine the difference. I mean, a pound of lead weighs less than
a pound of silver, right?
bob
my humor for the weekend, thanks ledzep! >>
No, a pound of lead weighs MORE than a pound of silver.
You can look it up.
TD
The weight test means diddly squat, since it's easy to create a lead-zinc alloy with the same specific gravity as silver. Any valid bar can then be photographically copied, with hall-mark and #, only it's lead/zinc with a thin patina of silver on the outside.
Or, the counterfeiter can drill plugs through the side of the bar, fill it up with the same lead-zinc alloy, and cover the ends of the plug with true silver. Indistinguishable by any test I know of, short of sawing it.
And I know it can be brought off perfecto, because I have one of those bars in my office, sawed in half, with a beautiful hall mark and two lead/zinc plugs with a diameter of about an inch. I bought it from a dealer who had been fooled, and had almost been killed when he tossed several other bars from the same source into a melting pot and almost got hit by a stream of shooting molten lead/zinc. I bought the one bar he hadn't tossed into the melting pot. The bar, sawed in half, is a very dramatic display for anyone who wants to buy buys retail.
That's why you can't rely on the dealers to sell you good bars. When I was writing about silver and gold professionally, I'd inspect the dealers to see what precautions they took in receiving silver (and gold bars). every dealer but one would have been easy to fool in many different ways, because their receiving departments were baed on brawn (to lug those heavy 60-pound bars (1,000 oz) bars around, rather than brains. Some of the dealers didn't even weigh the bars.
There was only one dealer I couldn't fool in many different ways, if I had wanted to. And that dealer sawed all the bars.
I could go on, but you get the point. Buying bars retail is a total crap shoot. When International Gold Bullion Exchange went bankrupt -- a scandal that I personally exposed -- the so-called bars in their depository proved to be crude imitations -- wood painted with gold and silver. Look it up.
There's only one way to buy bars safely. On the commodity exchanges, buy a futures contract and take delivery. The commodity exchanges accept for good delivery only bars direct from the approved, stored in approved warehouses. So it never leaves known-safe premises.
Sorry!
Best wishes,
Just Having Fun
I found the thread I was looking for:
Link
I have another question. What are the better brands of silver bars?
<< <i>Thanks for the help guys!!
I found the thread I was looking for:
Link
I have another question. What are the better brands of silver bars? >>
JM and Engelhard. There are others, but these are the 2 that trade consistently.
Is Apmex a reliable dealer for silver? jws
I'm a little shocked by this.... but then, sadly, not really surprised at all...