Unopened pack reseal, trust on the internest, grading...

Skinpinch

The hobby is what you make, and you collect how you wish, but gosh darn, with the level of money thrown on graded 'mint' or 'trimmed' mint cards, and the insanity with unopened packs...there is a lot of money being wasted. People scoff at the old timers who disregard grading etc...yet they probably have it right(not all the way, but more so than the current mentality).

To them, the notion of paying $4,000 dollars for a Jack Lambert card because some guy gave his opinion that it was Gem Mint, is ridiculous, a waste of money, and an odd way to collect. This particular card may or may not have been trimmed, but the degree of certainty people take these grades at is just not smart. There are many people laughing all the way to the bank who take advantage of the current mentality.


PACK GRADING AND SEARCHING!!

The legitimacy of unopened packs are a crapshoot regardless of who is selling them...even if it is the most honest person in the world. Unless that person had them since they came out, you immediately have to think there is a chance they have been searched. It would be naive not to think that. There is legit stuff there though.

As for pack grading? My goodness, if there is anything that can ever be equated with novice dart throwing, this is it. I know for a fact that searched packs got past GAI often. If a pack is refolded exactly the way it came, and is then sealed to the same tightness and level of adhesive, then it can't be detected...and it hasn't been by graders...even that guy from GAI that came on here and proclaimed he could detect it 100% of the time, was wrong. He had many slipped by him! And he isn't any better or worse than any other guy now grading packs. All he can do is detect the semi obvious bad ones. Any pack grader that says otherwise is simply being fooled, and is getting some by him.

SEARCHING A PACK. 1). Pack searchers simply open the pack carefully, leaving the folds nearly unmolested on one end, and opened to the point on the other end where they don't harm or 'break' the original fold lines. They pull the cards out of one end and search them. They put them back the way they came if nothing is good(or they substitute a card if a gem is found). The folds are then easy to fold back up exactly how they were, as they have not been flattened or 'broken'.

THE RESEAL: All they have to do is take a certain adhesive, and apply just enough in the CORRECT spots, and with the right amount. The original wax is still there, because the pack is just freshly opened, the original folds are still EXACTLY like all the other unopened packs, the correct parts are adhered to and with the right amount, and they use a common roller to press the pack down just like it was at the factory. It is undetectable with the right adhesive(Topps doesn't have natural rights to their adhesives), and even a different adhesive is undetectable(and can only be detected by forensics).

Some may blindly ignore this fact, or boldly proclaim they can detect it 100%. I'm just telling collectors, Beware! You work hard for your money, and at least be educated on the truth. If a pack is coming from the original HONEST owner, then I would be o.k. Once it is second hand...take your chance on your own accord, but at least know it isn't 100% guaranteed...it can't be!

UNOPENED CASES: The level of comfort people feel from these is odd. These are easier to reseal than packs. Whether it is adhesive holding the flaps down, or the combination of adhesive and the big staples...these can easily be sealed. If the staples are carefully pulled, it is opened. If the glue is carefully pulled, it is opened. You will see from paper sticking, or rips that it is opened. Once it is put back together the way it looked, it won't look any different. Once it is opened by the buyer, you can't tell if the fresh open damage is from just opening it now, or from opening it previously. Again, if different adhesives are used, foresnics may tell, but other than that, no chance.

VENDING: A fifth grader can search these...no need to elaborate.

There is still legit stuff out there, but know your chances before you buy. I don't accuse anybody of doing anything, but be wise with your money. Even the best pack graders can be fooled easily. Many veterans never bother with paying big money for unopened items for this reason. Younger collectors need to know this stuff.

As for trust on the internet with the current scam people got caught up in here...well, not everybody has the same degree of street smart sense, and I don't blame people for getting burned(it happens to everyone in life one way or another). I found it odd to put trust into an unknown guy to even handle the money, let alone having the packs in possession. I'm not preaching. I have recently taken a couple of gambles on purchases from relative unknowns. I use my Spidey sense the best I can. Some of those gambles pan out big time. Some don't. But at least realize there is a risk...and with unopend packs, a risk on many fronts!

itzagoner

class dismissed

fandango

very well said, but may be too late for the warning...the damage has been done.

jdip9

Sellers on Ebay that sell wax wrappers have to be the sleeziest of the sleeze. I would hope that most buyers are boycotting these sellers, and obviously boycotting those bidding on the wrappers.

I must say, either I'm the most unlucky person on earth, or have bought my fair share of searched packs that were "guaranteed unsearched". I have never pulled the "signature" card(s) of a particular set from a pack bought on Ebay. Not that I have bought a tremendous amount of packs (probably less than 300), but still....

stevek

Excellent post by Skinpinch!

Frankly I don't trust most if not all of these "unopened case" card dealers, even the cherished dealers mentioned on this forum, like some of the other members do. I fully understand the fun and entertainment involved in busting packs, but I also have to believe that even a well respected dealer has thoroughly analyzed the value of any particular case, through various means, and if there is a decent chance of busting the packs and turning a good profit then that dealer would do so. The dealer isn't about to allow card collectors many thousands of dollars in definite profit on a case when he can profit himself. The dealer is a businessman - he isn't going to give away money.

So it boils down to even if the dealer is "honest" and actually selling real "unopened packs" - there is no doubt in his expert opinion that the odds of that case being of more value than the selling price are virtually nil, if not definitely nil. I believe the Topps Mini break is a perfect example of that. If the seller thought the case break would possibly be worth a lot more than the selling price, then the case wouldn't have been sold for that amount. I could only speculate how a particular dealer would positively know that information, but based on Skinpinch's points it's easy to see how even a so-called "honest" dealer could make sure nothing of any possible "hidden" value gets sold at a bargain.

Could that case of "unopened" Minis have been "inspected" for possible value before being sold? I believe it's not only definitely possible, but probable.



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WinPitcher

Cases have identification numbers(lot numbers if you will) . i remm back in 86 certain cases held gem pristine examples and others held cards that were OC and did not have the color. When buying I would want cases from that lot.

It is perhaps this way that people in the know can differentiate what cases are gold and what cases are not.

they say information is money.

If a case dealer knew in advance that the cards in the case were gold he may bust the case himself and have the cards graded. or he could charge more.

But you can bet your lastt dollar that they do know.


It is there business to know.


Steve

handyman

I bought an unopened case of 1990 bowman factory sets. When sosa was hot. It was searched. The factory tap on all the sets were opened and someone just put some extra tap on them. All the star cards were Nm-Mt but everything else was gem. And the seller also had several cases for sale and several PSA 10's of all the stars.

Skinpinch

There are plenty of honest dealers, but they can only authenticate unopened material to the best of their abilities, and to the best that type of material allows itself to be authenticated(this is the aspect that is the killer). The good resealers can get their stuff past anyone.

With the grading system community basically making off center cards worthless, it is such an easy cover to replace searched boxes/cases.

Collectors also assume that since grading has made 'mint' cards worth a bunch, that sealing packs is a newer thing. People were resealing '78 packs even in the mid 80's, and taking out Murray rookies, Rose's etc.. I would say that those packs would simply contain more minor star replacements, and not the off center Murray replacements.

Both Steve's bring up the point of systems of insertion etc... Take the '86 Fleer basketball wax. People say they would only buy from an unopened case, because it is very easy to know the order of the cards. Knowing people's attitude on this, how easy would it be for an unscrupulous seller of an unopened '86 Fleer bskb case to do the following.....?

1. Carefully open the case.

2. Carefully pull out the boxes and keep them in order of being pulled.

3. Look at the first card in each pack to locate the sequence of where to find the Jordan's.

4). Carefully open the pack as the pack resealers do.

5). If the Jordan is not 8 or higher worthy, seal it back up properly and keep it in there. If it is, then crack out that PSA 7 o/c, or nice PSA 6, and then replace it.

6). Seal the case back up. Even a certain glue will do the trick, as once it is opened again, it would be very difficult to tell if the cardboard sticking/ripping is from when you just opened it, or when it was opened before. Everybody wil feel warm and fuzzy inside because it is case fresh.

You can basically clean out the entire case of mint worthy Jordan's(and other RC's), make a healthy profit, and be covered under the umbrella of "quality control was simply not that good that particular year" because the cards are still there, but because the community has deemed off centered cards worthless, you have an easy money maker, with a good alibi.

This is very easy to do in the bskb instance. Baseball wax would require more time, searching and resealing every pack(sequencing is tougher to come by). Baseball vending is probably the easiest to do, and requires the least amount of skill to accomplish.

There is still some legit stuff, but man in order to spend good money on it...better be darn sure.

Stone193

Hey Skin

Sounds like you're havin' a bad day.

Skinpinch

Stone,

I'm not really having a bad day, and I don't want anybody to sour on collecting. Sometimes a punch in the nose is needed for a wake up call. To see how much money is spent on unopened, and so called mint cards is crazy. I outlined the packs already.

People think the advent of all this(grading etc..) has been a boon for the collecting community...and it has...depending on which side of the boon you are on! They say it is great because now I won't be buying trimmed cards. They are fooled, because not only are they still buying trimmed, but they are paying 100x more for them because the perceived safety of the system. Now they are taking it in the rear, and saying thank you too.

Or if it isn't trimmed they are paying 100x more for the card because one day a guy felt it was gem mint, when on another day six months earlier another guy though it was only NM/MT, and now it is all of a sudden worth 100x more?!?! How people don't see the craziness in this aspect is astouding.

This has created MORE of the unscrupulous stuff that was trying to be avoided in the first place!

This is the community everyone has bought into, and have thus created one large ChitBurger, and sooner or later we are all going to be taking a bite!

handyman

I agree with you on some degree. I do feel PSA 10 prices are crazy. I sold a PSA 10 1970 Pete Rose for 4500.00 that I pulled from a pack. I also pulled another 1970 Pete rose about 3 years before that graded a 9. I had both cards and sold the 10 bc I knew what people would pay for it. The only difference with the 2 cards is the PSA 10 was centered 50-50 all around where the PSA 9 was about 48-52 all around. I sold it for 4000.00 more than what the 9 goes for. Im happy with just the 9. I do feel that PSA 8s are the way to go for the price and the quality. PSA 10s Ill sell sell sell. Bc there really isnt much of a difference in the card but the price makes you sell them.

softparade

The 78 case that was just cracked was golden. Thank goodness the flip side to what is being discussed here

stevek

<< <i>Stone,

I'm not really having a bad day, and I don't want anybody to sour on collecting. Sometimes a punch in the nose is needed for a wake up call. To see how much money is spent on unopened, and so called mint cards is crazy. I outlined the packs already.

People think the advent of all this(grading etc..) has been a boon for the collecting community...and it has...depending on which side of the boon you are on! They say it is great because now I won't be buying trimmed cards. They are fooled, because not only are they still buying trimmed, but they are paying 100x more for them because the perceived safety of the system. Now they are taking it in the rear, and saying thank you too.

Or if it isn't trimmed they are paying 100x more for the card because one day a guy felt it was gem mint, when on another day six months earlier another guy though it was only NM/MT, and now it is all of a sudden worth 100x more?!?! How people don't see the craziness in this aspect is astouding.

This has created MORE of the unscrupulous stuff that was trying to be avoided in the first place!

This is the community everyone has bought into, and have thus created one large ChitBurger, and sooner or later we are all going to be taking a bite! >>




Skinpinch speaks the truth. I have read a number of books about financial ups and downs in various eras of history, depending on the item and the circumstances. One of the first well known documented examples of this was tulips in Holland during the 1600's - that may sound funny but it's fact.

Nobody can possibly accurately predict how this will all play out as far as the inflated value of certain graded cards, but one thing for sure - it will be interesting.



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grote15

I recall recently that Steve Hart estimated that at least half the "unopened" packs up for sale on ebay are either resealed or otherwise tampered with. I think that is an accurate estimate. GAI has graded their share of "bad" packs (the bogus "grocery" cellos from the early to mid 70s, the late 50s cellos, etc.), but pack grading still provides some form of buyer's protection, IMO, and is far better than buying raw. The key though is to know and to trust your source and to know what to look for when purchasing unopened material.

Skinpinch

Soft, there is certainly some legit stuff out there still untampered with. And there are tons of untrimmed 'mint' cards still out there(mint is loosely defined).

I would say everyone needs to make decisions on their own, based on as much knowledge they can garner. Most people here do that already naturally. Newer people may not quite know.

I personally would take advantage of the craze while it is hot...take advantage in a legit way that is. Of course, this craze has brought on onslaught of people taking advantage in the other way.

I think what handyman did with his Rose cards is a very smart way to go about it...I could be wrong, and so could he, and we don't know yet for sure...but it looks like a good model to me.

storm888

"Newer people may not quite know. "

/////////////////////////////////

Therein lies the real problem.

Each time one of those folks gets burned, they leave
and tell their friends NOT to get invloved in sports
memorabilia.

That outflow hurts everybody that is holding inventory.

handyman

But, even if you have been burned the pay off for getting that Gem is worth it. Ive been burned on several packs but all it take is that one PSA 10 Rose and you are way up! I have as many horror stores with unopened as I do with success stories. But over all Im up. Ive pulled several Vintage 9-10s and they make up for it with the prices they bring. Its 50 50 but the prices bring you out of the red.

Stone193

<< <i>One of the first well known documented examples of this was tulips in Holland during the 1600's - that may sound funny but it's fact. >>

That reminds me of a job opportunity for girls at my college.

We were at a frat party and one of the girls said she was broke and needed money bad.

I said "we" were willing to pay 40$ an hour for planting tulips.

She said: "wow! When do I start?"

I said right now: "just plant you tu-lips right down here!"

Pittfan

Just think about how many more cards you could have if you just collected 8's.

Jdurg

A lot of this all stems from people's belief that collecting cards is a financial investment and not a hobby. Sadly, the era of card grading has really made the majority of collectors "investors" rather than collectors. Why are OC cards worthless today? It's ONLY because people won't be able to make a retirement from selling those cards. The hobby these days seems to be devoid of the fun and excitement that existed before all this money got involved. All you have to do is look at the kids collecting these days. When I collected as a kid I was excited to get a Yankee or a player that I liked. Now, you hear kids saying "Oh wow! Look at this rare 1/1! I can get a few hundred for this if it gets a good grade!" Hearing that just makes me weep inside.

I collect cards for the sake of collecting. I like seeing how the designs change each year and how the players develop over the years. I collect raw cards because it is MUCH cheaper and I'm not blowing my money on what could be an inflated grade that will result in a massive dop in price for that card in the years to come. Perhaps I'm an "oddity" in that I don't look at my cards as an investment, but more as a source of entertainment and relaxation.

WinPitcher

The 78 case that was just cracked was golden

If anyone would know it would be you Dan. Just another point that should be known regarding unopened.


Steve

BBCE

Hello!
Skippinch, to answer alot of things to your thread.

Yep, packs are resealed. Yep, cases are resealed. Yep, cases are opened to find the quality of centering. Yep, telemarketers call elderly people and prey on them. Yep, it all sucks.

Also,

Do cards get by PSA when they are trimmed? Yep.
Does a card get overgraded/undergraded? Yep.
Do autograhps get by PSA/DNA when they are fake? Yep.
Do coins get by PCGS when they are altered? Yep.
Does fake memorbilia get by the auction houses? Yep.
Are re-sealed packs going to get by me? Yep.

For me to say this doesn't happpen would make me a liar. Until Jesus Christ himself opens an authentication business, we will all get fooled from time to time.

However, we are all doing THE BEST WE CAN. Isn't that all that we can all ask for? Only people born today know that where there is money, there are crooks. Automobiles, art, diamonds, coins, currency, baseball cards, electric trains, politics, awards, sports, the stock market, watches and anything else you can think of all have forgeries, scandals, doctoring, liars, thieves, etc.

All I can do is the best I can. I can't do 110% as that is impossible. I can't use a crystal ball as I'm still working on producing one. My magic wand is in the repair shop. However, I am giving the best I can.

Authenticating has more upside and positive outcomes than any downside it could ever have. You would not believe how much stuff I view that was re-sealed by a kid in the second grade. SOOOO many people get burned on stuff that they could have probably found out themselves with just a little knowledge. This is where 95% of the authentication comes. I mean, simple 1980's Topps boxes that have fingerprints in the elmers glue. They have scotch tape in the wrapper. They have all the gum taken out. They have the roller marks completely missing from an iron or other heat source. The corner folds look like my dog chewed off the gloss. Not everyone in this has complete knowledge or even good knowledge. These are the main issues we run into. It even happens when people just bring stuff by the office and ask if it's good. Sometimes, it makes me cringe as to what they were thinking when they bought it. But then again, I must remember that I do this everyday, all day and have done this most my life. They are just the average collector who does not know all. The other 5% comes in authenticating stuff that is not your run of the mill items. 50's and 60's stuff. Wax trays which we are finding out are more and more bogus(from what we are learning, the everyday wax trays are getting very hard to find REAL). This 5% of the authentication is still easy to detect as it is done by amatuers just trying to steal from the amatuer collector. It gets down to the last very few items that are going to be rough. They are some good resealers out there who are good. Just like trimmers. Just like art forgerers. Just like North Korea printing US money. This is where I spend most all the time on just a few percentages of items. And in my opinion, what is the best thing to do if I'm on the fence at all........kick it out. Wouldn't we all rather have me err in that direction than in the other direction(just saying, yeah, ok, put it in a holder).

Therefore, the sky is not falling. There is way more good in this hobby than bad. I'm going to do my best to get it right/clean it up in the unopened respect. And again, my best is all I can do. Right?


Thanks!! Steve Hart

goose3

Nice post!

btw, check your flux capacitor!!!

grote15

Well-stated, Steve. An excellent post.

colebear

<< <i>A lot of this all stems from people's belief that collecting cards is a financial investment and not a hobby. Sadly, the era of card grading has really made the majority of collectors "investors" rather than collectors. Why are OC cards worthless today? It's ONLY because people won't be able to make a retirement from selling those cards. The hobby these days seems to be devoid of the fun and excitement that existed before all this money got involved. All you have to do is look at the kids collecting these days. When I collected as a kid I was excited to get a Yankee or a player that I liked. Now, you hear kids saying "Oh wow! Look at this rare 1/1! I can get a few hundred for this if it gets a good grade!" Hearing that just makes me weep inside.

I collect cards for the sake of collecting. I like seeing how the designs change each year and how the players develop over the years. I collect raw cards because it is MUCH cheaper and I'm not blowing my money on what could be an inflated grade that will result in a massive dop in price for that card in the years to come. Perhaps I'm an "oddity" in that I don't look at my cards as an investment, but more as a source of entertainment and relaxation. >>



I don't think collecting is ruined for kids, I have young cousins that collect just white sox cards and another who collects Joe Mauer. I can never imagine them saying I can get a few hundred bucks for this. Yeah a lot of stuff is too expensive for them, but it makes it that much better when they get it. Kids are going to copy what they see, if I saw my eight year old about to unload a flash in the pan star at it's peak price, I would be proud of that, as he learned something that I did not when I thought it was a great idea to stock up on the REV NEG of the 1990 Upper Deck Ben McDonald. I do not think it is blown money unless you did not learn anything from it.

softparade

<< <i> UNOPENED CASES: The level of comfort people feel from these is odd. These are easier to reseal than packs. Whether it is adhesive holding the flaps down, or the combination of adhesive and the big staples...these can easily be sealed. If the staples are carefully pulled, it is opened. If the glue is carefully pulled, it is opened. You will see from paper sticking, or rips that it is opened. Once it is put back together the way it looked, it won't look any different. Once it is opened by the buyer, you can't tell if the fresh open damage is from just opening it now, or from opening it previously. Again, if different adhesives are used, foresnics may tell, but other than that, no chance.

>>



What unopened cases are you referring to skin? I don't find it odd not even in the smallest degree that at least in THIS forum, people trust what Steve Hart supplies. Not odd one tiny bit. If Steve Hart (an actual expert in this field) deems a case legit then one has every reason to be comfortable

Estil

I thought on Topps vending boxes, you check the "brick" of 500 cards and make sure they're all in there very straight and you see the "zebra stripes" on the top. I can imagine it'd be quite hard to search through a vending box without getting both of those back correctly. Or am I wrong?

Also, slightly OC cards aren't worthless at all. For some people (me), the best you can reasonably expect is that the cards are "reasonably centered". For 1970s sets especially, if you get less than 10 common/semistar cards that are miscut (part of the card border on the front or back is touching the edge), consider yourself a very lucky (or very smart!) buyer. I guess this is where singles buyers have a big advantage over set buyers. All single buyers have to do is find the card they want in a (preferably PSA) grade they can afford. Can't afford a 1987 Fleer Jordan 10? Then get a 9. Can't afford a 9? Get an 8. Personally I'd just be happy with a 7 (if even THAT is affordable).

rbdjr1

<< <i>The 78 case that was just cracked was golden. Thank goodness the flip side to what is being discussed here >>



I hope some of u "golden boys" will get those "golden cards" graded, so you all can assist me in spending some of my hard earned "gold" on your newly graded 1978's!

I'm now sorry I didn't buy a box or two for grading. I just have soooooooooooooooooo much raw stuff piling-up (mostly, non-sports material, sitting around, just waiting to be sub'd to PSA for grading) WAITING to be sub'd to PSA, I passed.

Anyway, I'm glad for u guys that u "got a golden case" to crack!

And U 1978 case rippers? Pleeeeeeze keep me in mind with your freshly graded 10s and 9s, for my 1978 registry set!


TIA rd

Skinpinch

Soft,

I am referring to cases in general. They aren't hard to reseal without detection. I wouldn't impune anybody's product specifically, especially a real good guy in the hobby like Steve Hart. I don't think I came remotely close to impuning anybody in my posts.

Any expert in unopened packs has the limitations inherent in that process. Authenticating packs isn't as easy as authenticating a fake Goudey Ruth, nor is it as accurate(though the renumbered Goudey's are raising eyebrows...of which I know nothing). There is no doubt that the best guys have a pipeline of getting trimmed cards through, and searched products through. The best way to minimize this is a combination of knowing exactly what to look for AND exactly who had the unopened material(or mint cards) in their possession. Then obviously it is the integrity of the original owner(s) you are paying for. Integrity still exists in many humans.

I'm no dummy, I know great stuff is out there. If Steve Hart(and I hate to use a name as an example) bought a load of unopened material from a faithful longtime collector, then I myself would be comfortable taking the gamble. I am using him as an example as a guy I personally would trust if he got it from a good source that he trusts.

Steve, no offense at all to your business. In fact, I would recommend to anybody who wishes to gamble on unopened, to use your business. Nice guys finish first in my book always.

I know personally some long time collectors who have legit mint cards too. I know for certain they aren't trimmed at all. There is still gold out there, but darn, there is just as much hairy stuff too.

The sky isn't falling, but the GEm MINT, and Mint graded phenomenon has a chance to crumble. I can't predict it will, but it may not take much to topple a lot of it. It improved a lot of things in the hobby, but I don't think the middle ground has come yet.

Jdurg

I think the authentication provided by the third-party graders have been a great benefit to the hobby. I think the actual introduction of grades and "This card's better than that one if you look at it under a microscope, therefore it's worth 100x more" is bad for the hobby. In the past the grading was done through the eyes of the buyer and not by some other person. Therefore, if a card looked good to that person they'd be willing to spend more on it. Now a days, if the grading company says it's a 10, whether or not it actually is a 10, that is what the seller is going to demand monetarily for it. This makes "unopened" packs/boxes of any year far more expensive since the modern hobbiest understands that they could have a 10 in those packs which would be worth a fortune. As a result, dealers sell those boxes/packs for more money than they probably would if it weren't for the insane prices associated with graded cards.

But, this is the way the hobby is moving/has moved so that's just what we have to deal with.

stevek

Yes it was a good response by Steve Hart but remember Steve is still a businessman and isn't about to "give" anything away, ever...and of course he didn't say that he would.

Wanna bust stuff sold by Steve or even someone less reputable?...go ahead...just don't be under any illusion that it's gonna be profitable, and the chances of finding any very valuable card in a bust from something bought from a dealer I believe is extremely, EXTREMELY remote.

If someone is lucky enough to really find that little old lady from Pasadena whose father ran a 5&10 and had a few unsold boxes of 60's cards stored away in the attic and forgotten about until now, then there is a chance of valuable cards being in those packs. Otherwise in my view, everythings basically been picked through at this point in time including those stinkin' GAI slabbed "unopened" packs which I wouldn't pay 1/20th of what they sell for.




-

bxb

Unopened material = crapshoot.

GAI certified = crapshoot.

My 0.02.

softparade

<< <i>Yes it was a good response by Steve Hart but remember Steve is still a businessman and isn't about to "give" anything away, ever...and of course he didn't say that he would.

- >>



Steve had this to say to me in a PM:



Dan,
Let the truth be known! I paid:

$5000 for the 80 case back when my buy price was $5000 per case(when I could get $300 per box), I got $4600 for it.

I paid:

$21,500 for the mini case, that I got $22,500 for(a 4.6% profit)

I paid $8000 for the 78 case, that I got $9000 for( a 12.5% profit)


Total on the 3 cases; paid $34,500 and got $36,100. Thats a whopping 4.63% profit.

I could get more by going to a bank and buying a simple CD at 5%.

On killer, rarely seen items, the buy/sell number is just not worth it. But heck, it's fun!!!! And I enjoy the fun as much as you guys!

The upside is the free advertising. But as far as making a killing, I would be better off working at McDonalds on those items!

Stone193

I don't mean to pontificate and this is directed at NO one individual...

Consumers have a right to superior products and service and to be handled with courtesy.

That's it - some people seem to have some special sense of entitlement - businesses make profits - there seems to be people who want to begrudge the pursuit of earning a living by selling - unless it is "them" of course.

The "flip" percentage of profit on cases of cards is not that large - if ya overprice the stuff, it will sit on the shelf - and inventory that sits cost money. Ask any car dealer.

I'm in business to make a living and if I detect anyone who doesn't respect that - I'm sure I can find a very courteous and respectful way "to show them the door."

Off my "Stone" soapbox
mike

softparade

<< <i>
Wanna bust stuff sold by Steve or even someone less reputable?...go ahead...just don't be under any illusion that it's gonna be profitable, and the chances of finding any very valuable card in a bust from something bought from a dealer I believe is extremely, EXTREMELY remote.

- >>



One more thing from my big mouth. A LEGIT unopened case of cards, especially from the era that we all enjoy busting, can be filled with OC cards with bad print problems. I think it is VERY important to not misconstrue this fact with a item NOT being legit unopened product.

Dan

storm888

"I think it is VERY important to not misconstrue this fact with a item NOT being legit unopened product."




Also, I have no clue why anyone cares what BBCE - or any other
seller - pays for their inventory. I only care what I pay for the
items I purchase.

stown

Major, major, major props to BBCE!

stevek

Bottom line - It's okay to spend your "entertainment" money busting unopened vintage packs. If you're smart, your "investment" money should not be placed into trying to make money busting unopened vintage packs.

softparade

<< <i>Bottom line - It's okay to spend your "entertainment" money busting unopened packs. If you're smart, your "investment" money should not be placed into trying to make money busting unopened vintage packs. >>



Agreed, and that is a much different topic but unfortunately some do in fact spend money they really don't have on these types of things.
Its not much different then the guy buying oodles of scratch off lottery tickets hoping for a really nice hit.

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>Bottom line - It's okay to spend your "entertainment" money busting unopened packs. If you're smart, your "investment" money should not be placed into trying to make money busting unopened vintage packs. >>



Agreed, and that is a much different topic but unfortunately some do in fact spend money they really don't have on these types of things.
Its not much different then the guy buying oodles of scratch off lottery tickets hoping for a really nice hit. >>



Good analogy. If you know the recent story about the Texas lottery - Texas continues to sell their lottery scratch tickets even though the top prizes have already been won, and even most of the medium size prizes were already won - this has been admitted to by the Texas lottery commission after a reporter exposed it. A sucker's game beyond belief.

In my opinion, busting unopened packs bought from a dealer, for all intents and purposes is similar to the Texas lottery. There could be some exceptions such as perhaps packs sold by Steve Hart, but in most cases I believe there is basically little if sometimes no chance of getting a "prize" card.


Steve

softparade

<< <i> There could be some exceptions such as perhaps packs sold by Steve Hart, but in most cases I believe there is basically little if sometimes no chance of getting a "prize" card.


Steve >>



My 1978 Topps registry set is littered with mint cards pulled from Steve Hart supplied product. Including a superb PSA 9 Eddie Murray, a PSA 10 Jack Morris, a PSA 10 Steve Carlton, a PSA 10 Lou Brock and many, many more superb cards.

MeteoriteGuy

"Therefore, the sky is not falling."

Nice post Steve. I think some of you take this hobby a little too hard. Are there dishonest people in sport cards? Yes. But there are dishonest people in ALL fields, hobby related or not.

I think the biggest problem with this hobby is dealers. What I mean is how many times have you heard a dealer complain? Now how many times have you seem a dealer do something to promote the field.

As far as an investment, only an idiot would "invest" in cards with the thought of making money. You can buy and turn things quick for a profit at times....so I do not mean it that way, that is resaleing. If you want to invest, leave it in the bank or to a professional.

Clear Skies,
Mark