My view of everything with an apology to 80sJunkie......
CDsNuts
Posts: 10,092 ✭
I started this whole mess, and to be honest, the way it has become a soap opera with just about everybody on the boards expressing their thoughts has been fascinating to me. Since I have no life, I went through almost every one of Gary's posts since he's been here, and I think I have a fairly clear picture of what took place. So here goes:
- Gary has been posting here since mid 2006. The things that struck me about his posts:
1) His posts seemed like he enjoys the hobby, enjoys collecting, and enjoys buying and opening vintage product. He took part in many discussions on varying topics (even coins), and seemed genuine in his attempt to make friends on the boards. He wasn't pushy when trying to sell things, shared his grades, and even sent people free cards on occasion. Could this all have been an attempt to butter us up by gaining his trust? Possibly, but I'm not so sure. Like I said, it seemed to me as though his posts were genuine.
2) There was a period shortly after he joined where he posted several topics with no content in the "TEST" forum. Such as starting a thread titled "a", then responding 3 times with "b", "c", and "d". Could this have been an attempt to get his post count up? Probably. Why? I have no idea.
3) There was definitely an underlying tone in many of his threads where it seems he was trying to impress people with what he was buying ($10k worth of stuff from Steve Hart at the National), considering buying (52 Topps pack), and opening. A lot of people live their lives like this usually because of some underlying inferiority complex, so that's not something I will really beat up on a guy for.
4) Gary seemed genuinely interested in joining the rips regardless of who was setting them up (Zef, Bob C, ajw.....). Again, was he doing this to gain his trust? Possibly. But again, I'm not so sure.
5) I believe that when the group rips gained such popularity, and with the unopened inventory Gary already had and could get his hands on, an opportunity to make money presented itself in his mind. He could use his inventory to stock the rips at a profit, and he could also switch inventory in lesser condition or of questionable authenticity out for a cleaner BBCE product. Regardless of what can be inferred by his shady ebay purchases (wrappers, boxes, singles), I can't say with 100% certainty that he is guilty of resealing packs. The evidence points that way, but he seems to be almost daring me to send in my Vintage basketball packs to get authenticated (which I will), and that leads me to believe they might be legit even though some look resealed to me. However, with that being said, I believe his intentions with his ebay purchases were to, at some point in time (past or present), build his own packs and switch them out for BBCE packs. That is the only sensible explanation of why a vintage wax dealer would be buying up vintage wrappers, singles, and empty boxes.
6) In my mind, this is a situation where Gary started out with good intentions on the original rips, but the allure of the potential profits he could make off these rips clouded his judgement and turned him to the dark side. Once you step over that line and tell your first lie in order to make a dollar, it gets easier and easier to cut a corner here and there. Kind of like how a thief starts out stealing small things, then 6 months later he's graduated to robbing banks.
And so, you have the situation here where everybody is questioning Gary's intentions in everything he's said. Hell, I just went through 30 pages of 80sJunkie posts looking for irregularities (again, because I have no life). I was actually surprised at how much fun he was having on the boards and how much he contributed to many threads. After reading most of his posts, I honestly don't think he came on here in July '06 and stuck with it for 6 months in order to set us up for the kill. I think he saw an opportunity sometime in late '06-early '07, and greed got the best of him.
With that said, I feel I owe Gary an apology because it appears to me that he was making a sincere effort to become part of this community (which I suspect became a fairly big part of his life), but something inside him compelled him to ruin a good thing. A lot of troubled people have this self-destructive quality, and I really do believe Gary probably needs some professional help that would make his life a lot better. The fact that hundreds of people have come on here to proclaim their hatred for Gary has to be completely devastating to somebody who clearly has some self-esteem issues. My intent was not for this to turn into a Gary hate-fest, but that's what this has become. For that, I am truly sorry. I do not feel you are a horrible person, but perhaps have done some things in life that don't necessarily reflect your character.
I am not qualified to give advice on how somebody should live their life, but I am a happy person because when I see faults in myself and in some of the things I do, I make an effort to fix them. For instance, I wouldn't even be writing this post ten years ago- I'd be right there with the crowd piling it on top. At some point, I figured out how to look at a person's motivations rather than just their actions, which is harder than you think. So all I can say to Gary is try and look at yourself and figure out why you do the self-destructive things you do, and try and figure out how to make changes for the better. There are many qualified professionals that can help you examine your life and help you make some changes.
Lee
ps- If this comes off as preachy, that was not my intent.
- Gary has been posting here since mid 2006. The things that struck me about his posts:
1) His posts seemed like he enjoys the hobby, enjoys collecting, and enjoys buying and opening vintage product. He took part in many discussions on varying topics (even coins), and seemed genuine in his attempt to make friends on the boards. He wasn't pushy when trying to sell things, shared his grades, and even sent people free cards on occasion. Could this all have been an attempt to butter us up by gaining his trust? Possibly, but I'm not so sure. Like I said, it seemed to me as though his posts were genuine.
2) There was a period shortly after he joined where he posted several topics with no content in the "TEST" forum. Such as starting a thread titled "a", then responding 3 times with "b", "c", and "d". Could this have been an attempt to get his post count up? Probably. Why? I have no idea.
3) There was definitely an underlying tone in many of his threads where it seems he was trying to impress people with what he was buying ($10k worth of stuff from Steve Hart at the National), considering buying (52 Topps pack), and opening. A lot of people live their lives like this usually because of some underlying inferiority complex, so that's not something I will really beat up on a guy for.
4) Gary seemed genuinely interested in joining the rips regardless of who was setting them up (Zef, Bob C, ajw.....). Again, was he doing this to gain his trust? Possibly. But again, I'm not so sure.
5) I believe that when the group rips gained such popularity, and with the unopened inventory Gary already had and could get his hands on, an opportunity to make money presented itself in his mind. He could use his inventory to stock the rips at a profit, and he could also switch inventory in lesser condition or of questionable authenticity out for a cleaner BBCE product. Regardless of what can be inferred by his shady ebay purchases (wrappers, boxes, singles), I can't say with 100% certainty that he is guilty of resealing packs. The evidence points that way, but he seems to be almost daring me to send in my Vintage basketball packs to get authenticated (which I will), and that leads me to believe they might be legit even though some look resealed to me. However, with that being said, I believe his intentions with his ebay purchases were to, at some point in time (past or present), build his own packs and switch them out for BBCE packs. That is the only sensible explanation of why a vintage wax dealer would be buying up vintage wrappers, singles, and empty boxes.
6) In my mind, this is a situation where Gary started out with good intentions on the original rips, but the allure of the potential profits he could make off these rips clouded his judgement and turned him to the dark side. Once you step over that line and tell your first lie in order to make a dollar, it gets easier and easier to cut a corner here and there. Kind of like how a thief starts out stealing small things, then 6 months later he's graduated to robbing banks.
And so, you have the situation here where everybody is questioning Gary's intentions in everything he's said. Hell, I just went through 30 pages of 80sJunkie posts looking for irregularities (again, because I have no life). I was actually surprised at how much fun he was having on the boards and how much he contributed to many threads. After reading most of his posts, I honestly don't think he came on here in July '06 and stuck with it for 6 months in order to set us up for the kill. I think he saw an opportunity sometime in late '06-early '07, and greed got the best of him.
With that said, I feel I owe Gary an apology because it appears to me that he was making a sincere effort to become part of this community (which I suspect became a fairly big part of his life), but something inside him compelled him to ruin a good thing. A lot of troubled people have this self-destructive quality, and I really do believe Gary probably needs some professional help that would make his life a lot better. The fact that hundreds of people have come on here to proclaim their hatred for Gary has to be completely devastating to somebody who clearly has some self-esteem issues. My intent was not for this to turn into a Gary hate-fest, but that's what this has become. For that, I am truly sorry. I do not feel you are a horrible person, but perhaps have done some things in life that don't necessarily reflect your character.
I am not qualified to give advice on how somebody should live their life, but I am a happy person because when I see faults in myself and in some of the things I do, I make an effort to fix them. For instance, I wouldn't even be writing this post ten years ago- I'd be right there with the crowd piling it on top. At some point, I figured out how to look at a person's motivations rather than just their actions, which is harder than you think. So all I can say to Gary is try and look at yourself and figure out why you do the self-destructive things you do, and try and figure out how to make changes for the better. There are many qualified professionals that can help you examine your life and help you make some changes.
Lee
ps- If this comes off as preachy, that was not my intent.
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Gary who? >>
Yeah really. The junk is starting to fade. Its time to move on and Gary can go with it.
ps. Lee, Dont feel bad. You didnt start this whole mess. Alot of guys on the board knew what he was up to already.
matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Well thought out and a good way to clear your conscience. I can appreciate that as well as you calling him out in the first place.
The guy obviously likes the hobby, but then again so did Waxme. Greed is a bad thing and taking advantage of people is even worse. He literally could have charges brought against him so I feel no pity in what he got here.
This fiasco will come and pass, and in a year or so there will be another. WIWAG, PAoutdoorsman, Nomar, 80'sJunkie...We have survived a lot and this hobby has really been built on busting out the rat. It actually brings the hobby community together when an instances like these occur. People here always lean on fellow collectors for advice, support and knowledge. It's nice to know that your "brother" has your back when something fishy is going on.
One of my first memories of Gary was when the Open Forum was being shut down. He was pissing people off left and right. Seems they had him figured out long before we did.
Cheers,
Jordan
My Auctions
But he cheated and deceived me in order to pocket my hard earned (I am active duty Army) money. For that, he will not be forgiven by me.
He had MANY MANY chances to come clean, but he choose to kept piling on the lies as if we are all idiots. So I have zero pity for him.
You reap what you sow..
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
And, of course, only God and Gary can attest to his intentions.
For each and every person here whom he has taken advantage of - the only way to have closure is to forgive him and move on.
That does not absolve him of guilt, punishment or need for restitution.
Hate is work - it permeates ones life and affects outlook - IMO - only through forgiveness can one have real closure in life.
Good and decent people always feel a little guilty when they go through a process like this.
As I said in my thread on Camelot - never forget who we are - a community of people with a common interest - collecting cards and memorabilia.
mike
Lee
Lee
<< <i>Matt- I know I didn't start this whole thing, but the perception that I did is there. You actually brought up the suspicions first in the 84 rip thread while I was contemplating how to word my post. I've said it before- a lot of other board members did the legwork before I even had an inkling of what was going on. The collective forum caught what was going on, not me.
Lee >>
I can now say - I was the one who talked to Lee since I was concerned with how fast he jumped into a new rip.
My intention was not to rabel rouse but rather to insure that Lee had an idea of what was going on.
I had spoke with numerous people over the past week or so about Gary.
We wanted to insure our friends didn't get further hurt in this but didn't want to expose him yet since he was still handling their money.
So Lee - you were part of the process - but whether you or someone else opened the door - believe me - it was gonna open.
mike
<< <i>I also don't forgive Gary for what he did, but I have a clearer idea of why he did it.
Lee >>
Lee
I don't want to sound like a preacher.
But, with 6 decades under my belt - believe me when I say this.
Forgiveness - not for Gary - but for oneself - is the true way to closure.
Whether Gary is weak, disturbed, sociopathic or just a plain crook - we forgive for us - not him.
We move on - he has to live with himself - that's a burden that no hate by any individual can equal IMO.
mike
I am sure that a big percenatge of the good foundation of this forum knew what was going to happen shortly before your thread. It just so happened that your name was at the top when the $hit hit the fan. Take Stone's post above for the absolute truth brother!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Lee
I say good job, for everyone that helped also.
<< <i>I also don't forgive Gary for what he did, but I have a clearer idea of why he did it.
Lee >>
You cannot forgive unless forgiveness is asked for.
It is time to move on with one less board member.
<< <i>
You cannot forgive unless forgiveness is asked for.
It is time to move on with one less board member. >>
And a much more experienced board
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Vintage Rookies
"Molon Labe"
Lee
<< <i>Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I want to make it clear that I do not in any way regret anything I've done regarding this situation with Gary. I also don't in any way forgive him for scamming us. I know my post seems apologetic, but it's more of a plea for Gary to get better. At the end of the day, I don't want to be at all responsible, even in a very small way, for somebody's life going downhill. I fear that this whole situation could set off a chain reaction in Gary's life that will not end well.
Lee >>
Lee
The hint at denial in the tone of his posts leads me to believe he's clueless.
In his mind, he's done no wrong - he even had justification for making money since - after all - everyone got what they wanted anyway. Right?
He has no honor, he has no sense of true fairness, he's comfortable taking advantage of people and probably believes they deserve it anyway - just a guess.
Anything short of an epiphany - Gary will continue about his ways on another forum somewhere down the road - that's my guess.
mike
<< <i> At the end of the day, I don't want to be at all responsible, even in a very small way, for somebody's life going downhill. I fear that this whole situation could set off a chain reaction in Gary's life that will not end well.
Lee >>
We cant lose sight of the fact that Gary planned and calculated this whole mess. Its not something new to him.
The situation on the board with everything coming to light wont make his life go downhill.
It's obvioulsy been heading that way for quite some time now for him to do what he did.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
hatred for Gary has to be completely devastating to somebody who
clearly has some self-esteem issues. "
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I am pretty sure that I could count on one hand the number
of folks who expressed "hatred" for Gary.
People are just angry; that will pass.
Hatred should be reserved for terrorists, and, of course, ex-wives.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Hatred should be reserved for terrorists, and, of course, ex-wives. >>
<< <i>Lee
The hint at denial in the tone of his posts leads me to believe he's clueless.
In his mind, he's done no wrong - he even had justification for making money since - after all - everyone got what they wanted anyway. Right?
He has no honor, he has no sense of true fairness, he's comfortable taking advantage of people and probably believes they deserve it anyway - just a guess.
Anything short of an epiphany - Gary will continue about his ways on another forum somewhere down the road - that's my guess.
mike >>
Mike,
You are a better man than I. His lies continued and he started admitting more and more. He resealed these packs as he did the 75 mini "12 card" packs he's selling on Naxcom. 75 Mini's only have 10 cards! The only way to get 12 in there is to put 12 in and reseal them.
But I digress. Spiritual, religious, psychosis...whatever view you have to pity him, I lack. I call a spade a spade and a crook a crook. This guys a crook. The only way he's gonna get better is WHEN he gets incarcerated, and he will. He's sloppy on his schemes and if this one doesn't land him in trouble, one down the road will.
To all,
If you think he really was in this to make $7 or $30 or whatever he claimed, you bought another one of his lies. Who the heck would work that hard for $7? For $30? HE had the big payout in mind and was stocking up with the 78 bb wrappers and the 84 fb wrappers.
I have no sorrow of what went down and I know that Gary will land his ass in jail at sometime.
Cheers
Jordan
My Auctions
I joined this community about 8 months ago after a renewed interest in my old card collection was sparked by reading a book on Christy Matthewson.
- A few weeks ago I had lunch with a board member at the local Red Sox bar (a place I never thought I'd be caught dead in)
- Another one may join my softball team
- Yet another shared a lengthy cross-county phone conversation that went late into the night just yesterday
- Yet another and I are looking to talk jobs and business and career when we possibly meet up next week
- I have both mailed cards freely to and received cards freely from several other members
This board is like family. It makes me feel like a kid again --- excited about busting wax, completing sets, and making trades. Enjoying the opportunity to share stories and laughs with friends. A true collecting community.
As Mike said --- it almost was a bit like Camelot.
80'sJunkie and his actions hit my world here like a ton of bricks.
I did 4 rips with him. No doubt a portion of the $400 I gave him provided me with tampered, tainted, non-BBCE packs. He came into our community and abused us, coldly and with calculation.
Had it not been for Matt (Lawnmowerman), for Lee (CDs), and for other veteran members of this board to stand up and put a stop to what Gary was doing, I would continue to believe his lies and fall victim to his deceit. I would continue to participate in his shams.
So to Lee and the others ---- thank you for stepping up and bringing 80sJunkie's deceit and lies to light. And though I'm certain 80'sJunkie is just one of many who have tried and will try and take advantage of our community, our family --- I can rest assured that as a community we have each other's backs and will not stand for our own to be deceived.
And to Gary:
You hurt a lot of people, myself included. I have no hatred. Some anger. But mostly disgust and pity. Perhaps one day you'll find the strength within yourself to actually deal with your internal demons. Until that day, may all of your future scams be exposed quickly and with consequence.
-Tom
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
All very well said!
I have always been much more of a lurker on these boards, than a poster. I actually followed with great interest, many of the threads, for a few years prior to joining the CU BBS. Calling someone out for inappropriate activity is nothing new on these boards, or any public forum. This had to be done! I was already to sign up for more rips and would have sent more money to this person, believing he was an honest collector. It is unfortunate that people have greed. It will always be present, in those that want to cheat others for profit.
With age and experiences, we gain wisdom. I appreciate the wisdom I gain from all your posts!
-Michael
TGF Collection
TGF Sports
In my opinion we are overlooking one thing.
We all have morals which Gary obviously lacks.
He will not ask forgiveness or make amends. He is not in anyway like any of us. He's probably trying to figure out what to do with his junk now that this attempt has blown up in his face.
I like Jordan feel he needs to be brought up on charges at the very least.
It seems no one here has taken any steps to this end so I will.
The rest of you can forgive and forget. I'll make him pay for his crimes first then I'll move on.
Regards, Bob C.
P.S. His eBay and Naxcom accounts should be gone on Monday.
61 Topps (100%) 7.96
62 Parkhurst (100%) 8.70
63 Topps (100%) 7.96
63 York WB's (50%) 8.52
68 Topps (39%) 8.54
69 Topps (3%) 9.00
69 OPC (83%) 8.21
71 Topps (100%) 9.21 #1 A.T.F.
72 Topps (100%) 9.39
73 Topps (13%) 9.35
74 OPC WHA (95%) 8.57
75 Topps (50%) 9.23
77 OPC WHA (86%) 8.62 #1 A.T.F.
88 Topps (5%) 10.00
Gary attempted to take advantage of fellow board memebers for money. I don't care if it's a well respected memeber or an obnoxious a-hole like axtell, you don't do that.
Many of us have butted heads in the past, but situations like these help confirm that regardless of our differences, we will still watch each other's backs.
Unfortunately, we will probably never learn what "really" happened. Hopefully, this will set an example for any other potential scammers out there to think twice before trying to pull a fast one on this group.
We are all here to chat about things close and dear to our hearts, paying a crap load of money for cardboard.
Here's to going forward and watching each others backs.
how much southern comfort did you consumer in order to write this?
he still swindled the collective, possibly used his own inventory (instead of bbce or whoever) & left many questions unanswered.
but anywho, i love everybody.
julen
RIP GURU
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Gary has not apologized for anything. he's admitted to a few things and that's it. mostly unanswered questions but the smoking guns tell the truth to those questions. seems to me like he's proud of what he's done and boasted about the money making on the 'if you can handle the truth post'. he rubbed it in our faces - the last thing Gary is owed is an apology. do not fee bad or sorry for your initial post exposing Gary.
you were witnessing a crime take place and basically called 911 - you did the right thing and maybe if Gary admitted to everything and offered refunds then it would be different. now hopefully some of the taken members will call the real 911 on him - non emergency police of course.
<< <i>Sure am glad they finally got that Anna Nicole buried >>
Agreed. She was beginning to stink more than these rips.
For what it is worth, you have earned much respect from me and many others on this board. You were always one of the best people on this board before you left. That fact has only increased after this. Gary is what he is and won't change. You, on the other hand, are a class act who will continue to make this hobby fun. Thanks for your good work.
Robert
I trust folks until I have a reason not to and I truly value what we have on these boards. Onward and upward!
* C. PASCUAL BASIC #3
* T. PEREZ BASIC #4 100%
* L. TIANT BASIC #1
* DRYSDALE BASIC #4 100%
* MAGIC MASTER #4/BASIC #3
* PALMEIRO MASTER/BASIC #1
* '65 DISNEYLAND #2
* '78 ELVIS PRESLEY #6
* '78 THREE'S COMPANY #1
WaltDisneyBoards
Sorry I disagree.
Steve
<< <i>I trust folks until I have a reason not to and I truly value what we have on these boards. Onward and upward!
Well put, ArnyVee. Those are words I live by. I've been burned by "friends" for more money than I may have lost on a couple of the rips Gary set up, so I chalked it up to yet another example of learning who I couldn't trust any longer. Life goes on.
I've got that valuable commodity called trust for quite a few board members here. Class acts all...
My fear, however, is that he will keep selling his crap on eBay and Naxcom, as well as perhaps changing his ID and email and still come here.
Steve
edit to add: Knowing him he will come back with a name like .......80's Addict.
or, Imaddictedto80sstuffwannaripsome?
or, MynameisgaryandIamacardjunkie.
or, just plain old...............80cardjunkie
Won't be hard to figure him out.
<< <i>His spelling and lack of grammar will give him away.
Steve
edit to add: Knowing him he will come back with a name like .......80's Addict.
or, Imaddictedto80sstuffwannaripsome?
or, MynameisgaryandIamacardjunkie.
or, just plain old...............80cardjunkie
Won't be hard to figure him out. >>
How about...baitandswitchjunkie.