I have had it with suspicious activity with unopened material. Never again.

RonBurgundy

I have been consistent on this board in maintaining my general suspicions regarding the bulk of unopened material that is out there. I have even advocated that people should NOT open older packs because 1) they are likely to be disappointed because the odds are not in their favor and in many cases they are likely to be the victims of unscrupulous activity; and 2) if the pack is legit, they just lost a nice investment. Despite all that, I gave in to popular sentiment and joined the '78 case break.

NEVER AGAIN.

This hobby is dirty. Plain and simple, it is dirty, dirty, dirty. And I have had it with people who, either through negative feedback on Ebay or other suspicious activity, continue to dirty it up. Look, I have no way of knowing whether 80's Junkie is a bad guy or a searcher, or resealer or whatever. But I know this: if I want unopened material in the future I'll either buy it from Steve Hart or someone else I deem reputable. In all likelihood I will avoid it like the plague.

It's pretty laughable actually that people would engage in nefarious activity as it relates to sportscards. That is so small time. Con artist level, really.

As for the debate on this board, I will say that 80's Junkie/Gary/Beer Bong guy refunded my money due to the controversy on the board. I thank him for doing that. But you can count me out of any "vintage rips" in the future. Due to the odds involved, odds which are greatly reduced by the spectre of dirty activity, it's a pretty worthless endeavor in my opinion.


Y'all stay classy.



Ron

66Starfire

MikeyLikesIt

<< <i>But I know this: if I want unopened material in the future I'll either buy it from Steve Hart or someone else I deem reputable. >>



That's the rule I live by.

WinPitcher

This hobby is dirty. Plain and simple, it is dirty, dirty, dirty.


The 'hobby' is only as dirty as one makes it. My 'hobby' is nice and clean thank you.


Steve

RonBurgundy

I disagree that we can turn a blind eye to some of the stuff that goes on that dirties up this hobby and makes it less enjoyable for the rest of us. I'm not a conflict averse kind of guy. If I see something going on that adversely affects something I care about, I'm going to speak up.


Ron

CDsNuts

The biggest thrill for me in this hobby is to open a pack and pull out a big card. I'm not going to let a few a-holes keep me from something I enjoy doing. If that means I have to buy only from reputable dealers, then fine.

Lee

originalisbest

I agree with winpitcher, I enjoy the hobby very much, and it's clean for me. As for buying from Steve Hart (no surprise here) you don't go wrong. Case in point, recently got a nice '85 D box from him - ripped the whole thing... pretty nice centering overall; two Jacksons, two Schmidts, two Ryans, one nicely centered Clemens (tiny factory flecks out of the black border at bottom edge, but otherwise sweet) and no Puckett (oh well.) Very nice box overall!

So deal with those known to be good, you'll be all right.

themetalsign

Uh Oh !!!!!!!!!!!! No Puckett in that box??????????????? It had to be resealed.

RedRomad275

I have only participated once in these pack rips and will not participate in any more. I know not everyone is bad but Uncle Sam doesn't pay me enough to make that mistake twice.

Red

stown

I'll participate in rips again, just as long as the packages come directly from BBCE

BobaFett72

every hobby is dirty, and has it's share of losers and jackoffs.

buy from reputable people, research the person selling/organizing the thing (the feedbacks/ebay stuff would be clear signs to stay away from this clown being discussed)

hardcorehockeyfan

I know I argue with many of you in the other forum, some despise me, some do not, but this is the same crap that knocked myself out of the hobby back in the early 90s, and I am just glad I have not pulled the plug on a few. If there is one thing, well person(s), that I hate in this world, it is a thief, even worse is a thief who betrays another's trust!

Volver

Did Upper Deck not create their tamper-proof pack in 1989 b/c of a growing problem know as resealing? And mind you this was in 1989...gotta have my Robin Ventura PSA 10 rookie. Bottom line..as long as money drives greed, this is and will continue to be a problem in the hobby. The only way anyone knows for sure if a pack or box has not been messed with is if they purchased it from the Ben Franklin and never got rid of it

AlanAllen

This post illustrates the real tragedy of the alleged recent resealing. I'm more sad than angry.

Joe

originalisbest

themetalsign - heh! Naah, quite happy with the box and overall centering, pretty much what I'd hoped for. Well, I'd "hoped" for a coallating error that made for 5 Clemens, but oh well.

flatfoot816

wow! almost came right out and said that 80sjunkie was searching the packs. Is that what you really wanted to say? Or at the very least that you have strong suspicions that he did? Either way that sits not too well with me, who happened in on the basketball rip...have not received the packs yet; really interested in popping them open now.

Perhaps I was a bit naive on this one--but I try never to venture too much in the event that it turns bad.

Wonder what Gary has to say about this thread???

stevek

I would still be interested in a rip under the right circumstances and with cards I'm interested in. I'll keep an open mind about it, but I don't fault those who wouldn't want to do it.

Carew29

So i would expect you will not purchase any unopened products from BBCE, in your opinion?

Guru

Wow! And card companies and other collectors are encouraging kids to get more involved in this hobby?!

RonBurgundy

"So i would expect you will not purchase any unopened products from BBCE, in your opinion?"


If this is directed to me, I made it clear that the consensus is that Steve Hart is a fine, trustworthy dealer. And I am in still in for one box of 1980 Topps so long as it is busted from a sealed case and sent directly to me, but only because I need that to fill a hole in my unopened collection. Aside from him, good luck playing the odds with unopened stuff. I'll take my chances in Vegas.

CANNONBALL!


Ron

spazzy

Legit unopened , untouched,and untampered is awesome....Sorry to say that greed takes over many times. I own vintage boxes that I wont even try to look what star is on the back or front because it ruins the untampered with theory. Anyone who buys an unsealed vintage cello box or rack box without taking it out of the case yourself probably owns a unopened searched box. I am not talking about the 80s stuff. (not many people search that stuff) The best legit dealer can not always tell how many times a box has been sold or traded before it got to them....I have not bought much at all unopened but what I do own....I have kept it as the standard as it was which is pristine unopened, untouched and untampered.

Estil

Yeah, isn't that funny when people bust open a wax carton and are all like, "OMG! I dent gt Ripkin rooky! Wanna me $$$ back nowz!!!" Surely they understand with a 660 or 792 card set, it is not possible to pull more than 540 different cards out of a carton.

gosteelers

out of a carton

or box...

MikeyLikesIt

<< <i>wax carton >>



You lost me at "carton".

MikeyLikesIt

<< <i>out of a carton

or box... >>

Stone193

<< <i>This hobby is dirty >>

Ron

I know you're frustrated - but you've indicted an entire hobby?

What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly - Tom Paine.

Any hobby is gonna have it's problems - it's by persevering - facing adversity head-on - that it reveals it's full value to us.

In the end - we'll all learn from this - let's talk in two months...

Overrated

Ron, I agree there is way to many cons in the hobby! the only guys I trust are scp. They buy vintage at a fair price, the other dealers try to steal it. Ron its hard to stay classey with all the a$$-holes.

kcballboy

<< <i>This hobby is dirty >>



I bathe

Guru

I've had a chance to read everything everyone has written in all the threads and what not. Last night I didn't sleep very well because the whole subject bothered me and because the cat wouldn't shut up. But, after having some time to think things over it doesn't matter whether the person is guilty or not. In the end we all have to answer for our deeds good or not. I think what's sad is the possibility that someone might think about doing these things. I mean to say, that there's a chance out there that someone would commit this things. I remember when the hobby was about fun and it didn't matter who you got out of a pack. I mean, who doesn't want to get the all-star $$$ card or rookie? But the fact remains that this hobby has been tainted for a long time. So have most hobbies though. I think it's a sad realization of the human condition. I mean, what would drive a person to commit such a thing. And it making that statement I am not accusing 80's Junkie of anything. I'm staying out of that fight. I wasn't involved and those who weren't involved should keep their distance to the fight in my opinion.
But at the same time, I think that life goes on and we just gotta get over things. And politely I would like to encourage us to move on learning lessons, but not losing trust in our fellow collector. I think that this cat has been dragged through so many times and now it's just time to move on. I think we should walk away from this learning, but not judging. Righteous anger is justifiable, but anger that is damming in not. I think I can say that all of us, whether involved or not, have been affected by this issue and it's sad to say that this probably won't be the last time. But, can we move on?

Guru

RipublicaninMass

<< <i>

<< <i>wax carton >>



You lost me at "carton". >>



You had me at hello...lol

Kids search packs at Target, where did they learn it?

softparade

<< <i>This hobby is dirty. Plain and simple, it is dirty, dirty, dirty.


The 'hobby' is only as dirty as one makes it. My 'hobby' is nice and clean thank you.


Steve >>



The hobby is what the individual makes of it. There are bad elements in this hobby just like there are in everything else known to man. I am sorry you Burgundy feels this strongly but when crap like this happens it usually does wash out a few good ones ..... I feel there are many many good people in this hobby and that thought keeps me going.

Onlypsahockey

I am not accusing 80's Junkie of anything. I'm staying out of that fight. I wasn't involved and those who weren't involved should keep their distance to the fight in my opinion.

Hi Guru, no beef with you but is this logic all encompassing? I mean only Nicole's family should be upset with O.J. right?

life goes on and we just gotta get over things. And politely I would like to encourage us to move on

Absolutely! After this scumbag is prosecuted and put in jail.

I don't get this rush to move on here? Not just from you Guru but from too many here.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we recently discussing policing the hobby and how good it was that our members were so knowledgeable. How we could all make a difference and clean this hobby up?

Well we just got screwed! When I say WE I mean OUR CU community as a whole. So we all want to let it go and move on? Where is the outrage? Where is the desk pounding? I've seen some of us ranting more about getting screwed on $3.00 s&h fees on a $5.00 card but being passive now! WTF?

I'm sorry I just don't understand the lack of repulsion from many here. Where I'm from this bird don't fly. It gets plucked and cooked!

Maybe you're all better men than me? Maybe not? Maybe this turn the other cheek so we can get slapped again attitude is what drives these scumbags on and yes, we'll get slapped again.

Maybe we all need to think a little longer next time before we talk about doing the right thing. If ending this scumbags crime spree isn't doing the right thing I don't know what is.

If I'm wrong someone tell me and I'll STFU.

GARY????? SmeTFU. Bob C.

Guru

Yea, I've got no beef with anyone here either. I mean, I want this hobby to be policed and the scumbags to be apprehended. It's just hard for me to continue talking about it unless someone is actually going to stop whinning about it and file a lawsuit. All I've heard so far is whinning. I mean, don't get me wrong, I was pissed even though it didn't happen to me. But my friends on here got screwed apparantly or they feel like they have. Unless I'm wrong, and I very well could be, no one seems to be taking this to PSA, EBay, or the federal authorities. I mean, if we're gonna be pissed then let's doing something about it. Just seems to me that it's turned into a whinning fest.
And you know about the turning the other cheek thing...it's hard for me to do that because I'm partially Irish and it's in my blood to fight. But in the end, I would rather show mercy to someone and see them come clean and work through it and work it out. If it wasn't for someone showing me mercy, I wouldn't be alive today (true story). If Gary did this, I would love to see him come clean and the people who obviously are pissed to get their money back. But I'd also like to see the guy get some help if all the allegations are true. Lets say you made a huge mistake in life and a ton of people were affected by it including your friends. It would be really hard, even though you deserve it, to just not put a gun to your head and get it over with. I think the best way to handle this, strictly my opinion, is if Gary has done something wrong for him to admit it and then for us to help him work out his problem. I know it sounds crazy, but what if you had the chance to help someone make their life better, would you do it?
This is where the line is drawn in life and so very few cross it. Anger, hate, and hostility toward others makes for a messed up world. Do we let people get away with commiting acts of injustice? No! But, what do we do to help when they have fallen and can't help themselves get back up? (No jokes please.) We leave them or we kick them while their down. Do I feel sorry for people who get in trouble and have to deal with the consequences? No, not one bit. But, if they are remorseful and are willing to turn their life around, should we not be willing to help? I know it sounds so incredibly passive, but it's not. It's called grace and mercy. Let the unjust be judged, but let those seeking forgiveness and help find it.

Onlypsahockey

I'm speechless.

I must be having a bad dream.

I'm off to bed and when I get up tomorrow maybe we'll be talking about estils ultra run or someones favre set or Mark McGwire refractors or how dare this ebayer try to sell a reprint.

As long as there's no whining about Federal crimes commited against us... all will be well.

Good night all. Bob C.

grote15

Despite all that, I gave in to popular sentiment and joined the '78 case break.

NEVER AGAIN.

Not sure what you're complaining about here--all the 78 packs were shipped direct from bbce (I got mine today), so you have nothing to worry about, they are 100% authentic.

williplett

I am going in on my first box break with the 1980's. First, because I trust David and secondly Steve Hart has never done me, or anyone else from the sounds of it wrong.

Actually this debacle makes me more likely to join box breaks in the future. Why? Because steps will be taken in the future to ensure fairness that have not been taken in the past.

Guilty or not, people on this board are smart enough not to let another character with Gary-esque qualities organize a break.

MikeyLikesIt

I also have total confidence in the persons handling the upcoming 1980 break. Can't wait.

WinPitcher

I've seen some of us ranting more about getting screwed on $3.00 s&h fees on a $5.00 card but being passive now! WTF?


I hear ya Bob.


Steve

blindflyer

<< <i>Gary-esque qualities >>

alnavman

Did I miss something along the way?? I participated in two of the pack breaks that 80sJUNKIE did and thought there were no problems....???? And supposedly the boxes were all purchased from Steve Hart...which I would think could be verified rather easily.
What did I miss??

blindflyer

<< <i>Did I miss something along the way?? I participated in two of the pack breaks that 80sJUNKIE did and thought there were no problems....???? And supposedly the boxes were all purchased from Steve Hart...which I would think could be verified rather easily.
What did I miss?? >>



There has been zero verification of any kind on this.

However, Gary admitted on more than one post that several of the recent football boxes were indeed NOT purchased from BBCE as we originally thought.

I know the thread is 35+ pages now --- but start reading ... you'll see why there is an outrage.

-t


EDITED: to fix typo.

alnavman

thanks for the info....time to put my reading glasses on.....

williplett

<< <i>Did I miss something along the way?? I participated in two of the pack breaks that 80sJUNKIE did and thought there were no problems....???? And supposedly the boxes were all purchased from Steve Hart...which I would think could be verified rather easily.
What did I miss?? >>



Go back and read the thread about suspicious activity with the rips. You might want to grab a beer or take an Advil first though. It is a lot to digest!