Slabbed packs idea
stevek
Posts: 29,615 ✭✭✭✭✭
An interesting thing about these resealing threads is that I can't remember anyone, after the 1975 minis "distribution", complaining that the packs had been tampered with.
Based on a number of comments I've read regarding GAI slabbed pack rips, I've felt strongly that GAI slabbed packs, at least a good portion of them, are most likely resealed.
Brings up the point of how "easy" it might be for someone skilled in doing this to reseal these packs and make them look like original packs. I've never tried doing this. I guess somehow they get steamed open or perhaps some chemical is placed on the pack in some way to open it and then some type of glue is used to reseal it? Maybe it's done ultrasonically or something like that? And it is not the intention here to discuss resealing techniques.
Which brings me to an idea I've had which I'll bring out now, and if this borders on lunacy then so be it. I've thought for awhile that the only "real" way to legitimize a sealed pack might be to open it up in the first place, and inspect it. I'm not precisely sure how this would be accomplished from a PSA standpoint, but say somebody submits a 1960 Topps wax pack to be slabbed. Rather than a resealed pack possibly getting by the graders inspecting the packs for tampering, the packs could be carefully opened instead, inspected from the point of view of "basic" card condition, the gum, and other factors involving "knowing" that it was a genuine sealed pack. Then the pack could be carefully resealed, and slabbed, and legitimized as a genuine pack that was unopened before slabbing.
I mean nobody gives a chit about the sealed pack itself - they only care about the potential cards inside. The packs could still be slabbed with no cards identified so there would still be the fun of busting a slab and opening the pack if someone chose to do so.
The only flaws in this system the way I see it are: One, of course it would add to the cost of grading, but my main concern is the more valuable packs from like the early 70's, 60's and 50's, so an extra grading fee wouldn't really add much to the true value of that pack. A pack worth $500 and more, it doesn't matter much if the grading fee was an extra $10 or so. The other concern would be honesty - someone at a grading company who opened a pack and resealed it with a valuable Mantle, might be tempted to tell someone else about this pack and perhaps try to buy it if it were offered for sale. I think though that a company such as PSA could figure out a way around this, to keep this from occuring.
My main interest would be ripping some packs from the early 60's. I would be more inclined to purchase a slabbed pack, knowing that it had been fully inspected and that it truly contained random cards, that it really had been an unopened pack before, and for all intents and purposes still is an unopned pack from the vantage point of a collector interested in ripping it for the cards inside.
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Based on a number of comments I've read regarding GAI slabbed pack rips, I've felt strongly that GAI slabbed packs, at least a good portion of them, are most likely resealed.
Brings up the point of how "easy" it might be for someone skilled in doing this to reseal these packs and make them look like original packs. I've never tried doing this. I guess somehow they get steamed open or perhaps some chemical is placed on the pack in some way to open it and then some type of glue is used to reseal it? Maybe it's done ultrasonically or something like that? And it is not the intention here to discuss resealing techniques.
Which brings me to an idea I've had which I'll bring out now, and if this borders on lunacy then so be it. I've thought for awhile that the only "real" way to legitimize a sealed pack might be to open it up in the first place, and inspect it. I'm not precisely sure how this would be accomplished from a PSA standpoint, but say somebody submits a 1960 Topps wax pack to be slabbed. Rather than a resealed pack possibly getting by the graders inspecting the packs for tampering, the packs could be carefully opened instead, inspected from the point of view of "basic" card condition, the gum, and other factors involving "knowing" that it was a genuine sealed pack. Then the pack could be carefully resealed, and slabbed, and legitimized as a genuine pack that was unopened before slabbing.
I mean nobody gives a chit about the sealed pack itself - they only care about the potential cards inside. The packs could still be slabbed with no cards identified so there would still be the fun of busting a slab and opening the pack if someone chose to do so.
The only flaws in this system the way I see it are: One, of course it would add to the cost of grading, but my main concern is the more valuable packs from like the early 70's, 60's and 50's, so an extra grading fee wouldn't really add much to the true value of that pack. A pack worth $500 and more, it doesn't matter much if the grading fee was an extra $10 or so. The other concern would be honesty - someone at a grading company who opened a pack and resealed it with a valuable Mantle, might be tempted to tell someone else about this pack and perhaps try to buy it if it were offered for sale. I think though that a company such as PSA could figure out a way around this, to keep this from occuring.
My main interest would be ripping some packs from the early 60's. I would be more inclined to purchase a slabbed pack, knowing that it had been fully inspected and that it truly contained random cards, that it really had been an unopened pack before, and for all intents and purposes still is an unopned pack from the vantage point of a collector interested in ripping it for the cards inside.
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Comments
Shane
Once this service is done, the pack IS opened which would make it impossible to reholder, get graded / authenticated by another company.
A vintage unopened pack IS valuable even if the cards inside are damaged. A very recent example of this is a water damaged unopened 1954 Bowman pack that sold for $300 even though the cards in the pack are virtually worthless.
As a person interested in unopened graded packs, I would stay away from any of these packs that have been "professionally opened and inspected". My opinion is that the whole thrill of unopened material is that you have no idea what is in it and what condition it is in.
Harry
<< <i>Unfortunately, I think that your idea has some flaws.
Once this service is done, the pack IS opened which would make it impossible to reholder, get graded / authenticated by another company.
A vintage unopened pack IS valuable even if the cards inside are damaged. A very recent example of this is a water damaged unopened 1954 Bowman pack that sold for $300 even though the cards in the pack are virtually worthless.
As a person interested in unopened graded packs, I would stay away from any of these packs that have been "professionally opened and inspected". My opinion is that the whole thrill of unopened material is that you have no idea what is in it and what condition it is in.
Harry >>
Point understood and I don't disagree with you.
I think it would be "easy" to simply refold the waxpack and place some sort of PSA sticker on fold there, signifying the pack has been professionally inspected and resealed - and then slab it.
Believe me the "thrill" is completely understood, I'm just trying to think of some way to prevent the "agony" of getting ripped off when opening up a supposedly "sealed" pack and for example seeing wax stains on the cards in the middle of the pack, and then obviously knowing it was an opened pack. I've got the "urge" to buy a number of early 60's Topps Baseball unopened packs, but I refuse to spend that kind of money on something in which there seems to me to be a good chance the packs are resealed.
GAI I have no confidence in whatsoever. It'll be interesting to see how vintage PSA slab rips go, and how PSA actually is at authenticating unopened packs. I have confidence in PSA but still want to be convinced before spending my hard-earned money. Wouldn't bother me one bit to rip and not get anything great, but to rip and then realize I've clearly been ripped off by a reseal job - that would bother me a lot.
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Yes, some people buy packs only to open, and only care about the cards inside. Other people collect packs with no intention of ever opening them. "I mean nobody gives a chit about the sealed pack itself - they only care about the potential cards inside." is at best ignorant. Just look at the prices of penny packs - no one is paying $1000 for a gum and wax-stained 1960 Topps card.
Joe
<< <i>God, I don't even know where to start. A large factor in the value of an unopened pack is the fact that it's unopened. The expected value of the cards inside is nearly always less than the market value of the pack, because the hobby has placed value on its unopened state. Your method would destroy that value.
Yes, some people buy packs only to open, and only care about the cards inside. Other people collect packs with no intention of ever opening them. "I mean nobody gives a chit about the sealed pack itself - they only care about the potential cards inside." is at best ignorant. Just look at the prices of penny packs - no one is paying $1000 for a gum and wax-stained 1960 Topps card.
Joe >>
Of course people are paying for the "dream" of possibly getting a big card inside the pack, like a Mantle. We all here already clearly know that.
The value in an unopened pack is supposed to be about the "dream" possibly coming true - Opening a slabbed pack from GAI that was resealed, means that this dream coming true is not possible. My idea, as long as there was integrity involved with the grading company, makes for as certain as possible that dream could become a reality.
<<< Your method would destroy that value. >>>
No, actually there is no doubt that this would add value, probably a lot of value, to a slabbed pack - the buyer knowing in advance that the pack "really" was an unsearched, sealed pack, that was checked for authenticity of being a genuine sealed pack and them carefully resealed.
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Joe
<< <i>Do you collect unopened packs, Steve?
Joe >>
Buy them, yes. Collect them, no. Whenever I buy an unopened pack it is with a full 100% intention to rip.
And believe me, I understand the point from a "purest" pack collector viewpoint not wanting anyone to open the packs under any circumstances. Yes in theory that is nice, but how does a "collector" feel with a collection of GAI slabbed packs, if he's honest with himself, knowing that at least a number of those packs are resealed?
There's got to be a better way of doing this with all the fraud going on out there. New ideas need to be presented about this to put an end to, or at least significantly stifle, these fraudulent activities.
Steve
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What I'm trying to point out is that in the eyes of pack collectors (not those who buy packs to bust them) you'd be destroying the pack by resealing it. A segment of the market (those who, like you, only buy packs to bust) might feel more comfortable with the authenticity of the pack if it had undergone destructive examination. I sometimes buy packs to open and I honestly can't see the appeal in opening a pack that someone had already opened. For those of us who primarily buy packs to collect in their unopened state (like me), the value would be destroyed by destructive examination. It's nothing more than a wrapper, a stick of gum, and a pile of commons once you break the seal.
Joe
But in any event, it is agreed that "perhaps more can be done" and it is hoped that more is done because in my view, the current state of affairs regarding unopened vintage packs is unacceptable. For example, I will not purchase a slabbed GAI pack - period. I may give PSA slabbed packs from the early 60's a try, but first I want to see a relatively decent amount of positive feedback regarding the quality of the PSA slabbed packs. If the feedback isn't good, then I won't be buying them either.
Steve
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