personally i buy coins not stocks... true stocks have way surpassed some coins... true some coins have way surpassed stocks... does it matter?.... nah i buy coins and if prices drop?...yayy if prices increase?not so yayy i buy coins and go back to my corner now
everything in life is but merely on loan to us by our appreciation....lose your appreciation and see
<< <i>Perhaps 20 to 30 years horizon shouldn't make one forgetful, but careful. A loss today compounds for the next 30 years just as a gain does. >>
You're right, of course, but unless you have a good working crystal ball (I don't), you run the twin risks of falling to the twin emotional mistakes of investing, fear and greed, which killed many a market-timer by buying high (greed) and selling low (fear). >>
Very good point. There is a pretty stunning survey of the market that was done 3-4 years ago which pointed out that in the span 1920 to the then present, that if you had been out of the market for something like 23 months (a month at a time) in that entire timespan you would have missed something like 40% of the upside. That pretty much shows what happens if you attempt to market time it.
Lots of news today. A poor durable goods number suggests that the Business Week article is very old news and that 1st Q growth looks tepid at best. Good corporate earnings, an upbeat consumer confidence report and a stabilizing housing market didn't stem the selling today. The %9 one day drop in Chinese stocks set the stage. Greenspan's comments added fuel to the fire as did the suicide bomber who got close to Cheney. A computer glitch near the end of trading (too late for the market collar rules) didn't help confidence either.
Who cares? Traders do -- if you are one you will not change your trading because of this thread. Long term investors shouldn't if they really are long term. Long term investors might question the advice to diversify into international stocks - the whole world is way more correlated than ever before - but that is a minor point.
I like it. Increased volatility is good for my strategy. A sideways market is best for my positions.
I still think inflation will be an issue over the mid to long term. So tangible assets, like gold and coins, should do well - as long as there are the same or more buyers as now.
Threads like these reinforce my opinion that many "collectors" are not interested in spending money on a hobby. They are interested in investing in a money making opportunity. If these "collectors" get burned coins can drop in value big time even in an age of raising inflation.
your portfolio doesnt consist of stocks and bonds if you didnt lose a cent, probably all coins right! >>
I don't consider my coins as part of my portfolio. My portfolio is all stocks. >>
Then can I ask what stocks that you have in your portfolio that didnt lose any money it could not have been any dow stocks thats for sure.And if you had mutual funds in your portfolio then you could not get the final price on them by the time of your posting. So tell us what is in your portfolio maybe it can help me get a better return than my average 32 percent for the last several years.
<< <i>Computational glitch in trading systems at Dow Jones. >>
Dont believe what you hear on TV.
The NYSE superdot system did go down but not until about 3:55. It has gone down many times in the past and has not led to 3% down days. >>
This was huge volume so a glitch have and was reported to have been made. No one says it led to the result of 416 down but may have added to it by selling pressure.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I think Mr. Eureka actually meant "treasuries" rather than T-bills. The average maturity of Chinese holdings is more than a year.
Interesting. I didn't realize they weren't the same. I mention this not out of humility, but as a reminder that this may not be the best place to come for advice on the stock market.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<<Interesting. I didn't realize they weren't the same. I mention this not out of humility, but as a reminder that this may not be the best place to come for advice on the stock market. >>
Nor the bond market, where Treasury Notes and Bills are different but both sometimes called Treasuries.
<< <i>The U.S. does NOT pay high interest rates at all on debt compared to other countries...
Not saying that we shouldnt given our situation, but we are lucky that since the dollar is still the world currency. >>
YES IT DOES...compared to other AAA paper. The Chinese with their current surplus doesn't want junk!
Central Bank /Next Meeting/ Last Change /Current Interest Rate
Bank of Canada /06-Mar-07 /24-May-06 /4.25% Bank of England 08-Mar-07 11-Jan-07 /5.25% Bank of Japan 20-Mar-07 21-Feb-07/ 0.50% European Central Bank 08-Mar-07 07-Dec-06 /3.50% Federal Reserve 20-Mar-07 29-Jun-06/ 5.25% Swiss National Bank 15-Mar-07 14-Dec-06 /2.00% The Reserve Bank of Australia 06-Mar-07 08-Nov-06/ 6.25%
Africa Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change Egypt 8.25% 8.50% 22-Jan-06 South Africa 8.50% 8.00% 16-Oct-06
Asia Pacific Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change Australia 6.25% 6.00% 08-Nov-06 China 5.85% 5.58% 27-Apr-06 Hong Kong SAR 6.75% 6.50% 30-Jun-06 India 7.50% 7.25% 31-Jan-07 Indonesia 9.25% 9.50% 06-Feb-07 Japan 0.50% 0.25% 21-Feb-07 Korea 4.00% 3.75% 09-Feb-06 New Zealand 7.25% 7.00% 08-Dec-05 Philippines 7.50% 7.25% 20-Oct-05 Singapore 1.38% 1.06% 01-Aug-04 Taiwan 2.75% 2.63% 28-Dec-06
Europe Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change Czech Republic 2.50% 2.25% 27-Sep-06 Hungary 8.00% 7.75% 24-Oct-06 Iceland 14.25% 14.00% 21-Dec-06 Norway 3.75% 3.50% 24-Jan-07 Slovakia 4.75% 4.50% 26-Sep-06 Sweden 2.75% 2.50% 26-Oct-06 Switzerland 2.00% 1.75% 14-Dec-06 United Kingdom 5.25% 5.00% 11-Jan-07
Middle East Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change Turkey 17.50% 17.25% 21-Jul-06
North America Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change Canada 4.25% 4.00% 24-May-06 United States 5.25% 5.00% 29-Jun-06
South America Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change Brazil 13.00% 13.25% 25-Jan-07
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Looks to me as if they are right with everyone else for the most part.
You said "And yes, the US pays some of the highest interest rates in the world on their debt."
5% doesnt qualify as "some of the highest" to me...
When a country implicity or explicity defaults on loans...that is when the rate begins to climb horribly. Look at Brazil. They defaulted and are STILL recovering.
<< <i>Looks to me as if they are right with everyone else for the most part.
You said "And yes, the US pays some of the highest interest rates in the world on their debt."
5% doesnt qualify as "some of the highest" to me...
When a country implicity or explicity defaults on loans...that is when the rate begins to climb horribly. Look at Brazil. They defaulted and are STILL recovering. >>
I also said relative to AAA debt, which the US is. China will not buy Turkey or Brazil bonds with their surplus. They buy US because of our ability to repay our loans relative to other countries and we DO have some of the highest rates in the world for AAA paper.
Go to FXstreet.com and see for yourself!
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>this is a prime example of our (over)reliance on the Communist Chinese government to keep our economoy afloat >>
Actually, I see the opposite situation. They need our economy strong to keep them afloat. If we can not afford to buy their fake coins, then they could see a recession (trying to keep this coin related...he he). Talk of recession fears in the US added to China's other fears of their economy being over heated. Hence they had a panic selloff. Much of our sell off was simply a ripple effect. There is a silver lining, a slowing of China's economy will reduce the demand for oil. Lower oil prices can soften any weakness in our economy. Probably not real good news for the bullion players.
<< <i>this is a prime example of our (over)reliance on the Communist Chinese government to keep our economoy afloat >>
Actually, I see the opposite situation. They need our economy strong to keep them afloat. If we can not afford to buy their fake coins, then they could see a recession (trying to keep this coin related...he he). Talk of recession fears in the US added to China's other fears of their economy being over heated. Hence they had a panic selloff. Much of our sell off was simply a ripple effect. There is a silver lining, a slowing of China's economy will reduce the demand for oil. Lower oil prices can soften any weakness in our economy. Probably not real good news for the bullion players. >>
While the Chinese certainly find our buying of their stuff useful, they actually have reached the point where it's their internal economy that is generating the consistent high growth... their entrepreneur class sells to their middle class... the govt. buys necessary capital "goods" such as transportation infrastructure etc. However they are still in the Wild West stages of capitalism, oh excuse me, I meant to say "Communism with Chinese characteristics" (the governments official euphamism about their economy), so they are perfectly capable of having booms and busts, just like the US did up until the 1930's.
As to the comment by cohodk that it's perfectly easy to time the market, all you have to do is pay attention, gosh, I must have missed the point that the professionals who spend their life attempting to understand and time the market over any prolonged period of time, say 10 to 15 years, have not kept up with the broader market averages.
As to the comment by cohodk that it's perfectly easy to time the market, all you have to do is pay attention, gosh, I must have missed the point that the professionals who spend their life attempting to understand and time the market over any prolonged period of time, say 10 to 15 years, have not kept up with the broader market averages.
Skyman, You are talking to the wrong people.
Fund managers MUST invest all their money and cannot go completely to cash or other investments. They are constrained by the funds covenants.
You need to talk to the true professional traders who manage their own money. Or the guys who work for the big brokers. Take a trip to the Hamptons on Long Island and you will see how unsuccessful they are.
That said, of course there are bad traders. Just as there are bad baseball players, but they are still in the major leagues.
Comments
he is no longer Fed Chairman. By the way
Early Wed morning, the Chinese Market has oscilated,
from an opening of 1.3% to the current down 1.6 %.
Tomorrow morning should be another exciting day in the USA.
Camelot
<< <i>my prediction is gold will recover big >>
Let's see
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
true stocks have way surpassed some coins...
true some coins have way surpassed stocks...
does it matter?....
nah i buy coins and if prices drop?...yayy
if prices increase?not so yayy
i buy coins and go back to my corner now
<< <i>
<< <i>Perhaps 20 to 30 years horizon shouldn't make one forgetful, but careful. A loss today compounds for the next 30 years just as a gain does. >>
You're right, of course, but unless you have a good working crystal ball (I don't), you run the twin risks of falling to the twin emotional mistakes of investing, fear and greed, which killed many a market-timer by buying high (greed) and selling low (fear). >>
Very good point. There is a pretty stunning survey of the market that was done 3-4 years ago which pointed out that in the span 1920 to the then present, that if you had been out of the market for something like 23 months (a month at a time) in that entire timespan you would have missed something like 40% of the upside. That pretty much shows what happens if you attempt to market time it.
U.S. Type Set
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Who cares? Traders do -- if you are one you will not change your trading because of this thread. Long term investors shouldn't if they really are long term. Long term investors might question the advice to diversify into international stocks - the whole world is way more correlated than ever before - but that is a minor point.
I like it. Increased volatility is good for my strategy. A sideways market is best for my positions.
I still think inflation will be an issue over the mid to long term. So tangible assets, like gold and coins, should do well - as long as there are the same or more buyers as now.
Threads like these reinforce my opinion that many "collectors" are not interested in spending money on a hobby. They are interested in investing in a money making opportunity. If these "collectors" get burned coins can drop in value big time even in an age of raising inflation.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>my portfolio did not lose a penny.
your portfolio doesnt consist of stocks and bonds if you didnt lose a cent, probably all coins right! >>
I don't consider my coins as part of my portfolio. My portfolio is all stocks. >>
Then can I ask what stocks that you have in your portfolio that didnt lose any money it could not have been any dow stocks thats for sure.And if you had mutual funds in your portfolio then you could not get the final price on them by the time of your posting. So tell us what is in your portfolio maybe it can help me get a better return than my average 32 percent for the last several years.
<< <i>
<< <i>Computational glitch in trading systems at Dow Jones. >>
Dont believe what you hear on TV.
The NYSE superdot system did go down but not until about 3:55. It has gone down many times in the past and has not led to 3% down days. >>
This was huge volume so a glitch have and was reported to have been made. No one says it led to the result of 416 down but may have added to it by selling pressure.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>So what happens when China suddenly calls in all this debt of ours they own? >>
They won't because they know they can't collect on it as it doesn't exist.
Far as what someone said about the rates that we pay are highest in the world all I can say is
Uh, the debt doesn't get called, it gets sold. Thats how they would collect if China were to do that.
And yes, the US pays some of the highest interest rates in the world on their debt.
And no, China wants AAA debt, not what your thinking!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Not saying that we shouldnt given our situation, but we are lucky that since the dollar is still the world currency.
siliconvalleycoins.com
Interesting. I didn't realize they weren't the same. I mention this not out of humility, but as a reminder that this may not be the best place to come for advice on the stock market.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Nor the bond market, where Treasury Notes and Bills are different but both sometimes called Treasuries.
<< <i>The U.S. does NOT pay high interest rates at all on debt compared to other countries...
Not saying that we shouldnt given our situation, but we are lucky that since the dollar is still the world currency. >>
YES IT DOES...compared to other AAA paper. The Chinese with their current surplus doesn't want junk!
Central Bank /Next Meeting/ Last Change /Current Interest Rate
Bank of Canada /06-Mar-07 /24-May-06 /4.25%
Bank of England 08-Mar-07 11-Jan-07 /5.25%
Bank of Japan 20-Mar-07 21-Feb-07/ 0.50%
European Central Bank 08-Mar-07 07-Dec-06 /3.50%
Federal Reserve 20-Mar-07 29-Jun-06/ 5.25%
Swiss National Bank 15-Mar-07 14-Dec-06 /2.00%
The Reserve Bank of Australia 06-Mar-07 08-Nov-06/ 6.25%
Africa
Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change
Egypt 8.25% 8.50% 22-Jan-06
South Africa 8.50% 8.00% 16-Oct-06
Asia Pacific
Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change
Australia 6.25% 6.00% 08-Nov-06
China 5.85% 5.58% 27-Apr-06
Hong Kong SAR 6.75% 6.50% 30-Jun-06
India 7.50% 7.25% 31-Jan-07
Indonesia 9.25% 9.50% 06-Feb-07
Japan 0.50% 0.25% 21-Feb-07
Korea 4.00% 3.75% 09-Feb-06
New Zealand 7.25% 7.00% 08-Dec-05
Philippines 7.50% 7.25% 20-Oct-05
Singapore 1.38% 1.06% 01-Aug-04
Taiwan 2.75% 2.63% 28-Dec-06
Europe
Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change
Czech Republic 2.50% 2.25% 27-Sep-06
Hungary 8.00% 7.75% 24-Oct-06
Iceland 14.25% 14.00% 21-Dec-06
Norway 3.75% 3.50% 24-Jan-07
Slovakia 4.75% 4.50% 26-Sep-06
Sweden 2.75% 2.50% 26-Oct-06
Switzerland 2.00% 1.75% 14-Dec-06
United Kingdom 5.25% 5.00% 11-Jan-07
Middle East
Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change
Turkey 17.50% 17.25% 21-Jul-06
North America
Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change
Canada 4.25% 4.00% 24-May-06
United States 5.25% 5.00% 29-Jun-06
South America
Country Current Interest Rate Previous Last Change
Brazil 13.00% 13.25% 25-Jan-07
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
You said "And yes, the US pays some of the highest interest rates in the world on their debt."
5% doesnt qualify as "some of the highest" to me...
When a country implicity or explicity defaults on loans...that is when the rate begins to climb horribly. Look at Brazil. They defaulted and are STILL recovering.
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>Looks to me as if they are right with everyone else for the most part.
You said "And yes, the US pays some of the highest interest rates in the world on their debt."
5% doesnt qualify as "some of the highest" to me...
When a country implicity or explicity defaults on loans...that is when the rate begins to climb horribly. Look at Brazil. They defaulted and are STILL recovering. >>
I also said relative to AAA debt, which the US is. China will not buy Turkey or Brazil bonds with their surplus. They buy US because of our ability to repay our loans relative to other countries and we DO have some of the highest rates in the world for AAA paper.
Go to FXstreet.com and see for yourself!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>this is a prime example of our (over)reliance on the Communist Chinese government to keep our economoy afloat >>
Actually, I see the opposite situation. They need our economy strong to keep them afloat. If we can not afford to buy their fake coins, then they could see a recession (trying to keep this coin related...he he). Talk of recession fears in the US added to China's other fears of their economy being over heated. Hence they had a panic selloff. Much of our sell off was simply a ripple effect. There is a silver lining, a slowing of China's economy will reduce the demand for oil. Lower oil prices can soften any weakness in our economy. Probably not real good news for the bullion players.
<< <i>
<< <i>this is a prime example of our (over)reliance on the Communist Chinese government to keep our economoy afloat >>
Actually, I see the opposite situation. They need our economy strong to keep them afloat. If we can not afford to buy their fake coins, then they could see a recession (trying to keep this coin related...he he). Talk of recession fears in the US added to China's other fears of their economy being over heated. Hence they had a panic selloff. Much of our sell off was simply a ripple effect. There is a silver lining, a slowing of China's economy will reduce the demand for oil. Lower oil prices can soften any weakness in our economy. Probably not real good news for the bullion players. >>
While the Chinese certainly find our buying of their stuff useful, they actually have reached the point where it's their internal economy that is generating the consistent high growth... their entrepreneur class sells to their middle class... the govt. buys necessary capital "goods" such as transportation infrastructure etc. However they are still in the Wild West stages of capitalism, oh excuse me, I meant to say "Communism with Chinese characteristics" (the governments official euphamism about their economy), so they are perfectly capable of having booms and busts, just like the US did up until the 1930's.
As to the comment by cohodk that it's perfectly easy to time the market, all you have to do is pay attention, gosh, I must have missed the point that the professionals who spend their life attempting to understand and time the market over any prolonged period of time, say 10 to 15 years, have not kept up with the broader market averages.
U.S. Type Set
Skyman, You are talking to the wrong people.
Fund managers MUST invest all their money and cannot go completely to cash or other investments. They are constrained by the funds covenants.
You need to talk to the true professional traders who manage their own money. Or the guys who work for the big brokers. Take a trip to the Hamptons on Long Island and you will see how unsuccessful they are.
That said, of course there are bad traders. Just as there are bad baseball players, but they are still in the major leagues.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You need to talk to the true professional traders who manage their own money.
Absolutely. The funds were preaching buy and hold while their managers were trading their ways to fortunes in their personal accounts.
Wonder why?
Did you stand pat? Did you panic and sell?
How about gold?
Did you buy more, sell or stand pat?
Do you have a plan?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.