Are auction catalogs a waste of paper?

MrEureka

The current style of auction catalogs is incredibly wasteful. Full page descriptions for pop top slop, quarter page photos of proof gold that looks the same at almost any size, etc. I understand that flat rate postage and cheap printing makes it relatively painless for the auctioneer to send out larger catalogs, but we're killing way too many trees for no clear benefit.

Does this bother you?

How much smaller do you think the catalogs could be without affecting the quality of the presentation?

I'd probably keep twice as many auction catalogs if they were half the size.

Barndog

no bothers here, really. I understand that the paper industry is pretty good these days about using recycled material and continuously plants more trees.

sonoranmonsoon

Does not bother me a bit. I have more important things to worry about..... like what I am going to have for lunch today.

MrEureka

Does not bother me a bit. I have more important things to worry about..... like what I am going to have for lunch today.

And what will you kill for lunch?

IrishMike

With the internet they are redundant and a waste of mother nature's product. My kid flew in from L.A. so being the vegetarian that she is, will be going to Olive Garden for lunch.

Barndog

<< <i>Does not bother me a bit. I have more important things to worry about..... like what I am going to have for lunch today.

And what will you kill for lunch? >>



I'm going to kill some free-roaming spaghetti

Trime

Andy,
This is the end of an era. The catalogues are fun to have in hard copy but space as well as loss of resources is a concern. They are most useful when viewing auction lots and scribbling notes. They will disappear in the next few years as hard copy documentation disappears. Perminent archiving will be universally available and the last of the pre-computer generations die off. Notes will be easily added to virtual catalogues.
I can anticipate that google or some other source company will respond to a click with a picture, description, reserve, biding sequence and final price of all sold objects. For example , universal catalogues of all 1908 Matt Proof $2.5 coins in given grade sold in auctions will be available. You will be able to identify identical coins historically by the photo and view them by price grade (if changed), grading company. Sorting of all coins in a myriad of ways will be a snap. Grading services will also have pictoral source files of all coins graded by them.Transparency of the coin industry will improve despite continued efforts to obfuscate.
Obviously all collections will have a pictoral equivalent. I suppose the next question is why have objects at all; will all possesions be digitalized?

sonoranmonsoon

<< <i>Does not bother me a bit. I have more important things to worry about..... like what I am going to have for lunch today.

And what will you kill for lunch? >>



Not sure. Knowing me, it will be something that will give me heart burn, clog my arteries, and help inflate my spare tire more. It all depends if my wife is around or not. He she is hovering over me, I will be stuck eating some kind of yicky yogurt with a side of bean sprouts again. Actually if she is around, she would probably make me eat all the coin catalogs she can find.

ram1946

Auction catalogues are no more a waste than any other advertising brochure. If done properly, they provide an informative narrative and image of what's for sale. They make for great reading and visual material. They offer collectors like myself the opportunity to daydream what it would be like to own some of those wonderful coins. That said, I don't remember the last time I bid on an auction lot without gong to the website first. I would not object if all auctions were presented virtually. It would certainly release me from the "guilt" of trashing a beaitifully prepared paper catalogue.

secondrepublic

I've though exactly the same thing. There is no use having all of these enormous paper catalogs, unless it's a real once in a lifetime sale that people will keep referring to in the future (e.g., Eliasberg). I immediately trash most of what I get in the mail. For a run of the mill sale, everything is online now, and you can't compare online pictures with the pics in a catalog.

Shamika

I'm a tree hugging liberal so I understand your concern. However, I must admit I do enjoy sitting down on my couch and slowly paging through a coin catalog. But it does seem too much space devoted to widget material.

Coinosaurus

It is wasteful. Unfortunately we are all collectors, so we like having a shelf full of catalogs, especially if they are well written.

I think they will always be around, for floor bidders if nothing else. But at some point competition has to kick in and it is not going to be competitve for the auction houses to continually mail phone books out to their whole client base. Expect distribution to really fall once we all have mobile devices with good screens and ubiquitous wireless Internet service - we should be pretty much there in about five years.

I can already take a phone and surf the auction site, but the user experience isn't quite what it needs to be to get rid of the auction catalog - I need faster more reliable Internet service and a bigger screen on the device. It will happen.

RYK

I am on the fence on this issue. The tree-hugger in me agrees that it is wasteful. The collector in me believes that there is no acceptable electronic substitute at this time. The pragmatist in me believes that over time, the tree hugger will win out, not because of environmental concern, but because of the cost of creating and distributing auction catalogs in their current form.

MrEureka

I'm not suggesting the elimination of catalogs. I'm suggesting that they should be slimmed down to save some trees.

Outhaul

If they must be mailed to prospective bidders I would think it would be far cheaper to produce and send out CD's instead of paper.

Higashiyama

I suppose careful design could enhance efficiency -- in any case, some catalogues are much better than others in this regard -- but I would agree with those who emphasize that the general concept of a paper catalogue is highly valuable. (Andy -- I know this thread has veered somewhat away from your original intent, but I think the more general discussion of paper versus elecrtonic is interesting in any case!)

More than any electronic format created to date, with a catalogue I can sit down and browse, getting a sense of the overall scope of a sale, the strengths and weaknesses, a sense of quality, items I may be interested in that are in my collecting area, items I might be interested in but would overlook because they are outside my typical collecting areas . . .

Some of my favorite catalogues have been ones that might be technically inefficient (at least as measured by pages per coin, perhaps less inefficient in terms of value per page) such as Stack's catalogues of the Taichert collection or the coins of "Mr. 1796" Some of their darkside catalgues, and catalogues of colonial coins have been packed with information -- the historical value of these presentations would seem to more than justify the cost.

BiddlesBank

Auction catalogs are collector items and really can not be compared to the amount of resourses that newspapers use. Who saves newspapers? Today's catalogs are like new mint coin issues. Not worth more than original value at first but give them 20 years and then the market value goes up.

I sell auction catalogs and am in the process of listing a whole inventory at www.earlymint.com Click on the link below if this one does not work. There is really no comparison to using a catalog compared to internet or cd viewing in my opinion. Not only are they historical but when a collector buys a valuable coin from an auction he often wants the catalog to go with the coin. The catalogs are also valuable in research and reference. I have traced some coins clear back to collections held in the 1800's.

On the other hand calalogs should open the average collector's eyes to the amount of material available in any given issue. It definitely is an eye opener to see how vast some collections are or were and the amount of money involved in building these collections. It makes my few paltry coins seem insignificant. Like a small fish in a big ocean. But it's better to know than not. These catalogs will certainly cause some to change strategy in their collecting habits.

And lastly, more than one collector has decided it is cheaper to cut out pictures of coins to build a collection than buy the coin.

flaminio

I have no use for them. I search everything online these days. When I do get one, it goes straight from my mailbox to the recycle bin. Well, maybe I look at the pretty pictures first...

tmot99

I don't understand why they don't send a CD in place of a catalog. They should prove a means to print out a page from the CD. And for those that don't have a computer, they can call and a printed catalog could be shipped. They'd use a hundredth of the printed edition, save a ton on mailing expenses, and probably speed up the mailing process. Customers could print only the pages they have interest in (all of them if they so chose). At shows, they could provide computers with printers to print out specific lots of the catalog. The amount of money that they would save from the print editions and mailing would easily pay for the computers and printers.

speety

I agree that they aren't efficiently made/designed but I'd much rather flip through an auction catalogue on the couch then look at one online.

And for all the people who just throw yours away, if you have Goldbergs Pre-Long Beach catalogue from a couple weeks ago I'd be happy to take it off of your hands for you. I won the 1858 S$1 but didn't get the catalogue.

Mark

jdimmick

I like getting the printed catalogs, it makes it easier for me to screen thru auction lots at a much faster pace that using the on-line venue. If I see something of intrest, I can then look at the on-line close ups, details, additional info, etc. I keep very few, at the close of an auction though. I will breeze back thru the catalog to see how areas of the market perfomed when the prices realized are put up, then into the can it goes. I have kept a few that I like as reference, such as the Jules Reiver, copper & silver editions. Wes Rasmussens large cents, Jim Grey collection of seated, Richmond collection set of 3, Hugon barber's.

BECOKA

I would be happier with a downloadable .pdf file with the exact catalog page for page in electronic form. It sure would be easier to store all of the catalogs.

Preussen

<< <i>we're killing way too many trees for no clear benefit. >>

I like catalogs; I say use recycled material when possible, but kill the trees when needed & plant more. -Preussen

au58

I like looking at them, but they really are a thing of the past.
That, and something of a tribute to the catalogers knowledge and expertise, sort of like a college professor who thinks he is on the cutting edge when the only ones who buy his book are the students in his class who have to buy the book.
Before long, anyone with a passing interest will be able to catalog the history and pedigree of 95% of what is auctioned today.

RYK

This coin is a perfect of example of why I believe the auction catalogs, in physical form, remains important. Despite perusing the Liberty $5's online, I totally missed this offering until I opened the catalog pages. Now, I will not be bidding on it, but I sure enjoyed learning about the coin.

mrearlygold

I'm about to give a LOT of them the heave ho!

mgoodm3

I don't think that paper is needed. As stated already you could easily replace them with for most people with a CD or a PDF. I

think that the online catalogs could be much improved. The problem that I have with online listings is that they don't have decent thumbnail images of the coins. I don't want to have to open every lot to figure out what I like and don't like. I want to be able to scan a large number of coins and figure out which ones interest me quickly.

Longacre

The auction companies should perfect the "print on demand" concept. For example, I have no interest in 90% of the offerings in a particular auction, but I get the catalog for the other 10% that I am interested. If I had the option of clicking some boxes online, and then the auction company can send me a specially printed catalog that contains only the gold and copper sections, I would be happy. It would also be less costly in terms of paper and mailing expenses. I don't collect Morgan dollars, Mercury dimes, Washington quarters, etc., etc. so there is no need for me to get those sections.

Julian

Andy has a good point in offering a slim downed version that can be augmented by an elaborate on line presentation.

The catalogue concept is valuable to me in that I can browse thru it, at my leisure and identify items of interest. I could certainly then look up the items on a website if I wanted to have a more in depth presentation.

There would be no need for full page write ups, but there could be some photographs, and a way to point out significant items. Browsers, like myself, will certainly have to read these catalogues much better than they may do now to make sure that they do not miss something of serious interest.

Heritage does something like that with their on-line sessions that they run with the signature sales. They currently offer lesser value items, but if they had a similar catalogue for the floor auctions, I believe that there could be savings in at least paper, ink, and even postage.

lloydmincy

When I go to auctions or lot viewing, I need the catalog to fly through to double check, keep track of what I like. I say we get rid of People magazine and all the other gossip-about-peoples-lives-we-have-no-relationship-with magazines, and you would save a TON more paper. Remember, the coin universe of prospective buyers is very small, and the NUMBER of catalogs has to be a blink on the screen compared to Us, People, Star, etc.

I enjoy them better than the newspaper.

Just a last note. Some collectors are old school, and dont have the time or even patience (or maybe even a computer) to be going on-line for checking coins out. Catalogs are much easier.

They will make them smaller when the inevitable happens: Sales slow down, or fewer coins offered for sale.

shylock

Of all the auction catalogs I've received in the past 6 years I've saved one. The Joseph P. Gorrell Collection
of FE & IH Cents, Heritage FUN 2003. It's the thinest catalog you've ever seen, more like a thick brochure.

That is the type of catalog auction houses should center on these days. Put the rest on their website
and in downloadable PDF files. That way we can pick and choose how much paper we waste.

I've thrown out at least a thousand pounds of auction catalogs over the past 6 years. Most of them filled
with nothing I'm interested in. Tossed into the newspaper recyclables, but 50 times as dense.

wayneherndon

I suspect that devotion of extra space to such pieces helps win consignments for the auction house or is at least a factor in their efforts to obtain key consignments.

Nic

No. The unsolicited retail consumer cat.'s, other junk mail, free "newspapers" in my drive, overdone shipping and food containers, etc. , are. . K

coinkat

I think there is room for sending catalogs out upon request. Less can be printed... more folks can down load the auction or attend live.

shirohniichan

Some of their darkside catalgues, and catalogues of colonial coins have been packed with information -- the historical value of these presentations would seem to more than justify the cost.

Yea, verily.

When I take my time to leaf through paper catalogs I tend to bid on more coins. If I run a search online I am much less likely to bid on a random coin because it won't show up in my search results. In addition to the great information catalog(ue)s give, they also whet my appetite and serve as a sales brochure to get me "under the ether."

LeeG

I like getting the catalogs and getting a feel for the coins in the auction. The latest catalog had an insert to request a DVD of the Auction Lot's, which I did.

farthing

I prefer catalogues. I enjoy leisurely reading about coin series that I do not collect.

mozin

I might keep one or two catalogs per year. I would be much happier if the buyer's fee was even 1% lower without the catalogs.

tradedollarnut

I can't count the number of times I've searched an auction electronically and then decided to bid on something else once I got the paper catalog in hand and went through it thoroughly.

Until that changes, they're here to stay!

elwood

<< <i>I'm about to give a LOT of them the heave ho! >>



I'm in the process of doing some house cleaning and will be keeping only the ones that I think are of some importance.

They're just taking up way tooo much shelf space.







<< <i>I can't count the number of times I've searched an auction electronically and then decided to bid on something else once I got the paper catalog in hand and went through it thoroughly. >>



I agree!!

I always seem to miss something on-line but spot it in the catalogue.

WTCG

Are auction catalogs a waste of paper? Not to me. I prefer them over computer listings.

Lakesammman

I would agree, but with almost every auction I find something interesting in the catalog that I overlook online. It's also faster to review the auction on paper.

It's interesting that most of the tree huggers live in large cities where all the habitat has been destroyed for both animals and plants - not sure why that is. Perhaps it's because they feel the loss most intensly?? Or the guilt?

shylock

It's interesting that most of the tree huggers live in large cities where all the habitat has been destroyed for both animals and plants - not sure why that is. Perhaps it's because they feel the loss most intensly?? Or the guilt?

Lakesammman - Tree huggers like me, from NY, appreciate the Pacific Northwest. It's one of the most beautiful areas of this country.
Lets keep it that way. Would you agree that the clearcutting of trees in your state is a problem?

airplanenut

I think catalogs have an important place, if for no other reason than they create a great place to jot down notes quickly. Perhaps in the future there will be a catalog program that has a place to type comments for each coin you want to make a note about, and then your computer shows a custom catalog with your notes. Typing like that, though, is harder than hand-writing a note, and if you look at hundreds or thousands of pieces, the time could add up. Maybe they should just cut down on catalogs, so people only get them if they really need them.

darktone

I just love the auction catalogs- I have hundreds and I look through old ones every night. I would say if any of you think they are being wasted on you and killing too many tree's to make- just call up the auction companies and tell them to stop sending them to you.

Lakesammman

Paul:

I'm one of the biggest tree huggers - former forestry major.

How you cut the trees is really immaterial. It's the fact that we have (a) too many people in the world and (b) most are consuming more than they should is the heart of the issue.