One more for HOF (NBA this time)

gosteelers

I find it amazing that Dennis Johnson is not in the HOF. He will get elected posthumously (sp), though. It won't be the same...

ctsoxfan

100% agreement from me. I was sad to hear of his untimely passing this week, he was a part of my alltime favorite NBA team (Johnson, Ainge, Bird, McHale, Parish) and I never thought he got enough of the credit for that success. Not to mention, he was a great player who won a title with Seattle before he ever came to Boston. He was reknowned for great defense and passing - I believe he deserves to be in the NBA HOF.

DirtyHarry

He will be in at some point in time.....may take a few years.

halosfan

DJ was not a Hall of Famer.

BobaFett72

"DJ was not a Hall of Famer"

I'd wager he gets in sooner than later.
he was a consumate professional, MVP for seattle in the finals.
a key cog in the celtics championships. highly regarded and respected by his peers.

gosteelers

<< <i>DJ was not a Hall of Famer. >>



Care to elaborate? I think he was better than Joe Dumars and he got in. He's (DJ) widely recognized as one of the 5-10 greatest defensive players ever and he still averaged 14-15 points a game...

aro13

While I would like to see DJ get to the Hall I think the reason baseball pointed out has kept his vote totals down. There are already three Celtics from the 80's in the Hall (4 if you count Bill Walton). There are three Lakers from the 80's in the Hall (4 if you count Bob Mcadoo). I suppose the difference is the Lakers have two of the top 5 players of all-time among their 3 while the Celtics only have Bird.

Personally, I found DJ more valuable than the Chief but that is certainly open to debate.

BobaFett72

Can we take Bill Walton out? lol. He certainly didnt get in on his NBA career.

KalineFan

gosteelers.....a quote from Michael Jordan, when asked who was the best defender he ever played against:

".......Joe Dumars was the best...."

So I disagree DJ was better than JD ! Sorry, my opinion!
I agree that Joe Dumars was one of the best all-around players
defensively and offensively.....I'm not saying DJ was not good,
I just disagree with your statement.



Tony
Kalinefan

gosteelers

<< <i>gosteelers.....a quote from Michael Jordan, when asked who was the best defender he ever played against:

".......Joe Dumars was the best...."

So I disagree DJ was better than JD ! Sorry, my opinion!
I agree that Joe Dumars was one of the best all-around players
defensively and offensively.....I'm not saying DJ was not good,
I just disagree with your statement.



Tony
Kalinefan >>



Tony,
I know stats don't always paint the whole picture, but, here are their respective totals (both played exactly 14 seasons):

Joe Dumars-16401 points (as the second scoring option for a lot of those Piston teams)-Dennis Johnson-15535 points (as the fourth option on those Celtic teams)

JD Rebs-2203, DJ Rebs-4249!
JD Assists-4612, DJ Assists-5499
JD Steals-902, DJ Steals-1477
JD Blocks-83!, DJ Blocks-675 (This one is amazing)

Based on stats, DJ deserves it much more than Dumars...

Edited to say: Shouldn't Dumars get a deduction for taking Milicic over Wade, Bosh, and Anthony

reiny81

<< <i>Whether DJ was better than Dumars is quite debatable, meaning he was certainly close enough if he wasn't actually better. I personally would take Dumars. Having said that, DJ was on a team with Bird, McHale and Parrish. He was an afterthought in the minds of defenders, fans, and the media. Dumars was Robin to Isiah's Batman. Neither had terribly impressive HOF statistics and I would be inclined to say no to both. However, I clearly understand why Dumars is in, even though I wouldn't have put him in. If DJ gets in, that would be 4 from the Celtics' team of the 1980s. Way too many in my opinion for a franchise that won only 3 championships from that era, of which DJ was only around for 2. He is not really close in my opinion. >>



First of all, please do not say that DJ should not be in the HOF because that would be too many guys from the '80s Celtics. HOF induction is about how good you were as a player. It is not rationed off on a per team basis. If a guy deserves it, then he deserves it period, end of discussion. The only way your team should play into it is how it may have affected your numbers. Are a guy's numbers inflated because of who he played for or with. In DJ's case his ppg went down about 3 points a game when he came to the Celtics. His role changed and they did not need the scoring as much as his defense. That being said his ppg average in the playoffs was approximately three points higher than his regular season average. I might add they went to 4 straight NBA finals starting the year he got there. They had not gotten there in two years before they got him. In DJ's case, you are cheapening his career when you only consider him as a Celtic. DJ also went to two finals with the Supersonics, and was finals MVP in '79 when they won. If you are keeping score that means DJ went to 6 finals in 10 years with two different teams. His teams won three times. Dumars played in only three, winning two, and was never the man in any of them. DJ has at least as impressive a resume as Dumars. If Dumars is in, then DJ probably ought to be as well.

gosteelers

First of all, please do not say that DJ should not be in the HOF because that would be too many guys from the '80s Celtics. HOF induction is about how good you were as a player. It is not rationed off on a per team basis

I'm glad you brought this up, too. The statement about only a certain number of players from a given team being able to make the HOF seemed ridiculous to me, also.

gregmo32

Reiny,
Great post!

I agree that they should both be in. Basketball is a TEAM sport, and one in which stats tell almost nothing to differentiate between the good and the great. Stats happen in basketball, no matter how bad a team is. Think about it.

As an example, let's look at Shareef Abdur Rahim.

He came into the NBA after one year of college. After his first five years or so, his career averages were close to 20 point 10 rebounds per game. Those are "HOF numbers" if they are taken out of context. He also had the lowest winning percentage of any player in NBA history over that same span. When he moved to teams with more talent, his numbers dropped considerably, and his winning percentage rose. Now my point is not to knock Abdur Rahim, who is a fine player and person, but simply to show how little you can tell about a person's ability from their basketball statistics. There are plenty of people who put up "HOF numbers" on teams that don't win. That is not significant since every NBA player is capable of scoring points and compiling stats if they are in a situation where they play 38 minutes and winning or losing is not an issue.

Dennis Johnson and Joe Dumars are both HOF players, in my opinion. And, to illustrate my point, I think Joe Dumars left college as the fourth or fifh all time leading scorer in NCAA history. He became known for his defense on the Pistons while winning championships. That is what great players do - whatever needs to be done to contribute to a win, every night.

GOODLIEU

The comparison of these two great players is right on target. Both were consummate professionals who were respected thru out the league and were the ultimate team first type players excelling on the defense and scoring as needed.Most importantly come playoff time they were even better . The problem here is that the Basketball Hall Of Fame committee blew it because DJ should have been in before Dumars in the first place. DJ already had 10 years in the league when Dumars started in 1985 and was in his last year as a pro when the Pistons won their first championship. The right thing to do at this point is to correct that oversight and give this man posthumously the honor of having his name among the greats in the HOF.

DirtyHarry

He will be in at some point in time, may take a few years.

Repeat...

PSASAP

The argument that there are already enough Celtics from the 80's teams is hogwash. Look at how many Knicks from the teams that won 2 NBA titles are in the hall: Willis Reed, Walt Frazier, Earl Monroe, Bill Bradley, Dave DeBusschere and Jerry Lucas. Either DJ belongs in the hall or he doesn't, regardless of how many of his teammates are already in. I, for one of many, believe that he should be in. He was Jason Kidd before there was a Jason Kidd. If you look at their stats side by side, you'll see that, except for the assists totals, their careers are remarkably similar. I'd give the edge to DJ, because of his three rings to Kidd's zero. DJ's problem has always been a lack of recognition, starting from the beginning as a low round draft choice out of Pepperdine, hardly a college powerhouse. Plus, defense is rarely recognized by the casual fan, which really was his strong point. He was considered a problem teammate early in his career, which helped explain why he was traded twice, the second time being one of the most lopsided in NBA history, but he found his niche in Boston. He was a great player, who Larry Bird said was the best player that he ever played with. That alone should be reason to vote him in.