If it has always been buy the coin and not the slab...
bidask
Posts: 14,028 ✭✭✭✭✭
Why do we as collectors and dealers continue to slab raw coins, crackout for the hope for an upgrade, cross for the perception of a better TPG holder, resubmit for an upgrade, and fret about the state of the coin market because of slabs?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
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San Diego, CA
<< <i>Why do we as collectors and dealers continue to slab raw coins, crackout for the hope for an upgrade, cross for the perception of a better TPG holder, resubmit for an upgrade, and fret about the state of the coin market because of slabs? >>
Need to be careful throwing around that word "we"
I am not included in the population you describe and I have been and AM a collector for close to 40 years now.
Because if you do then that behavior also relates to my original question.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
All The Way - And Then Some
I collect Modern Commemoratives
and anything Franklin.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Why do we as collectors and dealers continue to slab raw coins, crackout for the hope for an upgrade, cross for the perception of a better TPG holder, resubmit for an upgrade, and fret about the state of the coin market because of slabs? >>
Slab raw coins to preserve them
Crackout and resubmit for an upgrade because of greed
<< <i>Why do we as collectors and dealers continue to slab raw coins, crackout for the hope for an upgrade, cross for the perception of a better TPG holder, resubmit for an upgrade, and fret about the state of the coin market because of slabs? >>
Actually, some people recognize that buying the nicest coins for the grade provide profit opportunities. Even some of those who personally choose the best coins rather than the best slabs may decide that selling plastic is a good idea.
As such, it's more like "buy the coin, sell the holder."
Still, this is one of those things that make me think slabbing is causing more problems than it resolved. I just think it has become too dominant in the hobby. It has its place, IMO, but I just feel like way too much emphasis is put on "the right plastic" by too many people. The slabbers are just too powerful in terms of dictating standards and making markets. Slabbing certainly has its place, but more and more it seems like people involved in the hobby think every metal disk should have plastic around it.
I like TPG's because they offer one layer of protection against fraud (buyer should still know how to grade for themselves) concerning overgrading, and a layer of protection against altered or counterfeit coins. The protection isn't 100% but it is much better than just buying raw and hoping for the best. Lastly, I like the TPGs because they offer a potential buyer of one's coins the same protections when they go to sell the coins down the road.
The TPG's have some flaws inherant in the system, but they far outweigh the risks compared to when everything was bought and sold raw, IMHO.
Tyler
<< <i>more and more it seems like people involved in the hobby think every metal disk should have plastic around it. >>
This actually makes sense. I am the type of person that like everything in the same type of holder. I do not like all of the various sizes of packaging one ends up with from the mint or different size tubes, 2x2's, binders etc....
I like being able to label my PCGS boxes and stack them nicely. So yes my cheap $2 coins end up in an $8 holder but it is well worth it and your statement holds water because of people like me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why do we as collectors and dealers continue to slab raw coins, crackout for the hope for an upgrade, cross for the perception of a better TPG holder, resubmit for an upgrade, and fret about the state of the coin market because of slabs? >>
Slab raw coins to preserve them
Crackout and resubmit for an upgrade because of greed >>
Right on......
It all just feeds the economy.
...and the economy stays hungry!!
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>There are lots of good reasons to holder coins. The holders offer protection. The holders offer an unbiased third party opinion on the coin's grade and authenticity, and they now offer a fun and competitive method to share one's collection and to compare it against others.
I like TPG's because they offer one layer of protection against fraud (buyer should still know how to grade for themselves) concerning overgrading, and a layer of protection against altered or counterfeit coins. The protection isn't 100% but it is much better than just buying raw and hoping for the best. Lastly, I like the TPGs because they offer a potential buyer of one's coins the same protections when they go to sell the coins down the road.
The TPG's have some flaws inherant in the system, but they far outweigh the risks compared to when everything was bought and sold raw, IMHO.
Tyler >>
You say Tyler..."The protection isn't 100% but it is much better than just buying raw and hoping for the best. "
I can only say that NEVER NEVER NEVER should anyone buy raw and hope for the best....I do not think this is where a coin collector should be and if they are---oh well.....
That is not a fair comparison reason to validate buying plastic, and there are many reason to buy plastic, but this argument does not hold water----it should not even be in play.
<< <i>
<< <i>There are lots of good reasons to holder coins. The holders offer protection. The holders offer an unbiased third party opinion on the coin's grade and authenticity, and they now offer a fun and competitive method to share one's collection and to compare it against others.
I like TPG's because they offer one layer of protection against fraud (buyer should still know how to grade for themselves) concerning overgrading, and a layer of protection against altered or counterfeit coins. The protection isn't 100% but it is much better than just buying raw and hoping for the best. Lastly, I like the TPGs because they offer a potential buyer of one's coins the same protections when they go to sell the coins down the road.
The TPG's have some flaws inherant in the system, but they far outweigh the risks compared to when everything was bought and sold raw, IMHO.
Tyler >>
You say Tyler..."The protection isn't 100% but it is much better than just buying raw and hoping for the best. "
I can only say that NEVER NEVER NEVER should anyone buy raw and hope for the best....I do not think this is where a coin collector should be and if they are---oh well.....
That is not a fair comparison reason to validate buying plastic, and there are many reason to buy plastic, but this argument does not hold water----it should not even be in play. >>
Unfortunately this argument is in play and there are thousands of general coin collectors that never learn to grade and just trust the dealers they buy from as to the quality.
<< <i>Why do we as collectors and dealers continue to slab raw coins, crackout for the hope for an upgrade, cross for the perception of a better TPG holder, resubmit for an upgrade, and fret about the state of the coin market because of slabs? >>
I rarely do any of the things that you mentioned but I do buy most of my coins certified for counterfeit protection. I quess I don't have quite as much confidence in myself as some.
LarryNJ said it more concisely with "I do it for the money", but my answer is that I discount raw coins when buying them for resale because the market demands slabbed coins. However, when buying for my collection, my time horizon for resale is such that I can ignore slabs, or the lack of same. In other words, I plan to take my collection to the grave.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i> When you go to buy or sell a raw coin, do you 'discount' in your mind the price you are willing to pay or sell the coin because it is not slabbed?
LarryNJ said it more concisely with "I do it for the money", but my answer is that I discount raw coins when buying them for resale because the market demands slabbed coins. >>
Actually thats the way I see my experience in buying and selling of raw coins too. It is just ironic that we discount raw coins because the market demands it and we discount slabbed coins based upon what we believe the coin grades raw.......??
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Sometimes, we pay premiums, for PQ coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i> When you go to buy or sell a raw coin, do you 'discount' in your mind the price you are willing to pay or sell the coin because it is not slabbed?
LarryNJ said it more concisely with "I do it for the money", but my answer is that I discount raw coins when buying them for resale because the market demands slabbed coins. However, when buying for my collection, my time horizon for resale is such that I can ignore slabs, or the lack of same. In other words, I plan to take my collection to the grave. >>
How does MrsEureka feel about this plan?
Mrs Eureka is welcome to join me and my coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>we discount slabbed coins based upon what we believe the coin grades raw.......??
Sometimes, we pay premiums, for PQ coins. >>
Ahhhh, so we discount raw coins by discounting the fact that it is not slabbed as the market demands.....and we discount the slabbed holder, not the coin, based upon what we believe the coin grades raw, which could be higher ( if PQ) or lower if market graded, than what the slab shows.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
You're getting warmer...
The plastic is never discounted. A slabbed coin is always worth sight-unseen money. But sometimes, the slabbed coin is worth a premium to sight-unseen money. These premium pieces are what we call "PQ" coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Rex
It kind of reminds me of the hunting world. Some would discount others way of legally persueing(sp?) their game of choice with their method of choice, when all they really do is delegitamize their own stance.
I say, live and let live. Don't badmouth someone for doing what they feel is right or best for them. Different strokes for different folks
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms
To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt
[L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
<< <i>and we discount the slabbed holder, not the coin, based upon what we believe the coin grades raw, which could be higher ( if PQ) or lower if market graded, than what the slab shows.
You're getting warmer...
The plastic is never discounted. A slabbed coin is always worth sight-unseen money. But sometimes, the slabbed coin is worth a premium to sight-unseen money. These premium pieces are what we call "PQ" coins. >>
Yes, thank you I do know what is meant/intended with a description of PQ and that the designation can bring a premium price if the two parties agree on what is ultimately in the holder.
However if the two parties agree that what is in the holder is a pig compared to the assigned grade on the holder, then a lower price will ensue.
Either way, both are examples of discounting the slab ( assigned grade on it).
And ironically at some point in its life the coin was most likely discounted being raw for the reason you pointed out ( 'market demands slabbed coins').
Ours is truly an existential hobby.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
BTW, the above disclaimer has nothing to do with your affinity to firearms.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The question is, lower than what? My baseline is sight-unseen money. Nothing can sell for less, no matter how ugly. Of course, there are no "correct" answers.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>However if the two parties agree that what is in the holder is a pig compared to the assigned grade on the holder, then a lower price will ensue.
The question is, lower than what? My baseline is sight-unseen money. Nothing can sell for less, no matter how ugly. Of course, there are no "correct" answers. >>
What is baseline sight unseen money based on?
Some sort of published guide?
What the two parties agree upon?
What is it?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Some dealers actually bids on slabbed coins, sight unseen. Some of these sight unseen bids are on CCE, others elsewhere. All should be reflected on the Blue Sheet.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
And a slabbed coin can be discounted (as to price, whether higher or lower) because of the grade given on the slab.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
But a coin that is in a slab that has been given a certain grade that we don't agree with, do we discount the slab or the coin at that point??
I feel like I have been smoking something.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>The plastic is never discounted. A slabbed coin is always worth sight-unseen money. But sometimes, the slabbed coin is worth a premium to sight-unseen money. These premium pieces are what we call "PQ" coins. >>
Hmmm. And here I thought that most coins worth more than sight unseen money were simply solid for the grade - with a few truly PQ coins smattered in for good measure!