Tommy Morrison to get back in the ring

kcballboy · February 20, 2007 9:46PM

I hear that if he wins this fight he gets a rematch vs. Rocky in late September.

Seriously though, how would you like to be the guy that mis-diagnoses a professional boxer with HIV and end his career? That'd help you sleep at night.

The "Duke"

ToppsCo1lector · February 20, 2007 9:54PM

AIDS test that is a false positive? Come on now. Magic's HIV hasn't been at a detectable level for many years now, that doesn't make him cured.

stown · February 20, 2007 10:46PM

<< AIDS test that is a false positive? Come on now. Magic's HIV hasn't been at a detectable level for many years now, that doesn't make him cured. >>

I think you are misunderstanding the situation. According to reports, including this article, Tommy never even had HIV. The initial test was a false positive, comparable to a false positive for being pregnant.

<< Morrison, 38, maintains that his initial HIV test, the one that led to his suspension, was a false positive. He said all of his recent HIV tests have come back negative.

"I did every kind of test they have on the market and one that is not even approved yet," said Morrison, who said he weighs between 220 and 225 pounds, the same as he weighed during his prime. "They can't find any virus. I have taken test after test and they have all come up negative. I look like a pin cushion with all the tests I have taken. They can't find any virus because it never was. >>

ToppsCo1lector · February 20, 2007 10:54PM

Hopefully for him it was a false positive.

kcballboy · February 20, 2007 10:58PM

Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test.

ToppsCo1lector · February 20, 2007 11:12PM

<< Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test. >>

That's what my line of thought is.

kcballboy · February 20, 2007 11:14PM

<< 

<< Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test. >>

That's what my line of thought is. >>

That maybe Tommy is using the Whizzinator 3000 of HIV testing?

ctsoxfan · February 21, 2007 1:39AM

<< Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test. >>

That seems to be the most logical explanation for his situation. He really shouldn't say that he never had the virus, and technically, he still does - right? Whatever the case, I wish him well. He never seemed like a bad guy, even though he was in the worst Rocky of the 6.

xbaggypants · February 21, 2007 2:21AM

Yet another reason why boxing SUCKS!!

stown · February 21, 2007 4:49AM

<< 

<< Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test. >>

That's what my line of thought is. >>

In theory you are correct; however, I could be mistaken but I don't think that's the case. I think whoever did his first test messed up, so he never had HIV to begin with.

ToppsCo1lector · February 21, 2007 7:37AM

<< 

<< 

<< Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test. >>

That's what my line of thought is. >>

In theory you are correct; however, I could be mistaken but I don't think that's the case. I think whoever did his first test messed up, so he never had HIV to begin with. >>

Why the decade long wait then? He could've proven he wasn't HIV positive many years ago. But he didn't.

stown · February 21, 2007 8:12AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test. >>

That's what my line of thought is. >>

In theory you are correct; however, I could be mistaken but I don't think that's the case. I think whoever did his first test messed up, so he never had HIV to begin with. >>

Why the decade long wait then? He could've proven he wasn't HIV positive many years ago. But he didn't. >>

I have the same questions, so I can't answer why.

Maybe false positives were unheard of? Maybe the blood work got switched? Maybe OJ did it?

Who knows but I do know this. I wouldn't want to be that doctor's insurance company right now...

ToppsCo1lector · February 21, 2007 9:00AM

Just to make it clear, no litigation has ever been brought out to the open based on Tommy Morrisons 1996 positive HIV test.

DirtyHarry · February 21, 2007 10:09AM

It is unusual that this process has taken so long. The guy tested positive for AIds a long time ago. If he is clean, why not let him get back in the ring. He was a solid contender before his career was dismantled. The "Rocky" stuff was only secondary. Why not give him a shot. If he's anywhere near his prior level of conditioning, he will be an interesting fight in today's HW world. If he looses, that's that.

ToppsCo1lector · February 21, 2007 10:47AM

^^
Simple. He tested positive for HIV. Call me crazy, but anyone that would sanction such a match should require blood tests. West Virginia Boxing Commision does not. Seems a little fishy to me personally.

DirtyHarry · February 21, 2007 10:58AM

Toppsmeister - what are you saying? I am saying that if the guy is clean by sanctioning bodies, then let him fight. Agree?

stown · February 21, 2007 11:00AM

<< Toppsmeister - what are you saying? I am saying that if the guy is clean by sanctioning bodies, then let him fight. Agree? >>

That's the whole point.

Tommy is saying he never had it. Others are saying he did, and still does, but isn't testing positive now.

Chicken and the egg, my friend.

ToppsCo1lector · February 21, 2007 11:05AM

<< Toppsmeister - what are you saying? I am saying that if the guy is clean by sanctioning bodies, then let him fight. Agree? >>

He was cleared by a Boxing Commision that doesn't required blood tests. That is the only sanctioning body that has allowed him to fight. I'm saying there are drugs on the market(which the wealthy can afford) that lower the level of HIV to a level of undectable. That, is what I truely believe has happened here. It does not make him clean, and Stown said it, Morrison claims now to have never been HIV positive; funny why not fight during the pinnacle(and most marketable and money making) part of his career? Why not try to fight 5-6 hell even 9 years ago? Me thinks it's cuz no sanctioning body in it's right mind would allow this guy in the ring. It's not safe.

DirtyHarry · February 21, 2007 11:13AM

If he is cleared by the sanctioning authority, then let him fight. If an opponent does not want to fight him, that's their perogative. That's all I'm saying. The rest is valid conjecture. IMO.

ToppsCo1lector · February 21, 2007 12:35PM

<< If he is cleared by the sanctioning authority, then let him fight. If an opponent does not want to fight him, that's their perogative. That's all I'm saying. The rest is valid conjecture. IMO. >>

A positive result in an HIV test is far from a conjecture. Does Magic Johnson have HIV? Yes. Touche.

MPeter · February 21, 2007 12:52PM

That's one ear Tyson won't want to bite off!

bri2327 · February 21, 2007 2:12PM

<< 

<< Also, as is probably the case with Magic, the drugs they give you can knock the levels of HIV down to a point where the virus isn't detectable. You still have HIV, but the drugs can minimize it to a point where it doesn't show up in any test. >>

That seems to be the most logical explanation for his situation. He really shouldn't say that he never had the virus, and technically, he still does - right? Whatever the case, I wish him well. He never seemed like a bad guy, even though he was in the worst Rocky of the 6. >>

Jerry, until yesterday I would be in complete agreement with your " never seemed like a bad guy " thoughts. Yesterday I heard an interview he did on ESPN radio and this guy is one first class A$$hole.

He literally fought with the interviewer every 30 seconds. He would say he will be a contender in 1 or 2 months, then a MINUTE later the guy doing the interview would ask if he thought it was realistic or what the odds were on him actually being a contender in a month and Morrison would get in a rage and say he NEVER said he would be...that he said THREE months, and everyone has been a jerk to him and had been putting words in his mouth like the guy who was interviewing him.

He did similar things over and over, forgetting what he said one moment from the next, then raging out on the guy.

Morrison also spent plenty of time talking about how he " found God " and how God speaks to him every day, how god saved his life, etc etc and for his grand finale of the interview he said how God would "carry him all the way to the bank ".

Without a doubt one of the strangest and most disturbing interviews I have ever heard. He is completely 100% out of his mind.

HighRelief · February 21, 2007 3:15PM

I see a Rocky 7 with the Hit Man wanting a match with Rocky, I would go and see it.

kcballboy · February 21, 2007 8:00PM

<< Why not try to fight 5-6 hell even 9 years ago? >>

If I remember correctly he's spent some time in the clink since then.

Volver · February 22, 2007 2:14AM

Yes...2 years in an Arkansas pen for drugs and weapons charges

ToppsCo1lector · February 22, 2007 2:57AM

<< Yes...2 years in an Arkansas pen for drugs and weapons charges >>

Ok. That leaves 8 years. Clifford Entienne didn't wait around and he was in the pen for a decade(before released and entering the heavyweight division). Entienne is now serving a 150 year sentence for armed robbery, kidnapping, and attempted murder of a police officer.

Morgoth · February 22, 2007 3:25AM

As a scientist it is very possible the test was a false positive. Doctors are very skeptical in overturning prior diagnosis. If you read the story he was tested almost every year but the doctors were saying it was undetectable but in their eyes he was still HIV+. The West Virginia commission did make him take a blood test.

Morgoth · February 22, 2007 3:27AM

"When I was first informed that we had some people on the card that may need some additional testing, I worked very closely with the ABC and its medical people," Allred said. "We feel as though we've done our due diligence. We have no mandatory blood testing requirements in West Virginia, but I have been broadly interpreting our statutes to require medical exams from time to time for people who want to compete in the state. We're taking every step we feel as though we should to make sure a fighter is healthy."

"They don't require a test in West Virginia, but I took one anyway just to satisfy them," Morrison said

I believe that this answers the question on if he was tested before this fight.

DirtyHarry · February 22, 2007 12:07PM

Let Morrison fight. Why not?

grote15 · February 22, 2007 12:09PM

What I wonder is why anyone even cares. The pitiful state of heavyweight boxing is emphasized when a wash-up like Morrison even gets this much air time.

MPeter · February 22, 2007 12:30PM

Yep, KO!! I think he was fighting the guy who set up the chairs in the arena before the fight.

SDavid · February 22, 2007 12:56PM

I spoke with a co-worker/former nurse about this a few months ago. She said HIV tests during the 90's were erratic and that there were a lot more false positives than people realize, but, at the time, no one questioned them.

DeutscherGeist · February 23, 2007 8:46PM

As sophisticated as this board is, I am surprised no cell biologist is here to clear things up as of yet regarding the degree of error in testing.

I remember when the news first broke out that Tommy had tested positive for AIDS. It really turned his world upside down as is understandable. He took a second test just days later and it was also positive. However, one sanctioning body still gave him a license to fight one match. I don't know what happened after that. He was adamant to beat this bug with his own regimen of health products and exercise. The doctors at the time wanted him to start on the AIDS co*cktail they had in helping patients. Tommy did not heed the doctors advice because he wanted to see what he can do first. The doctors let him saying that since he is so spirited, let him try what he wants to do first and then later on, he can be started on the anti-AIDS drugs.

I don't know what happened afterwards.........NEVER HEARD anything until now, a decade later.

Keep in mind that lab tests are only tests. They are not the absolute word in some of the cases because of the nature of what's being tested. Its not like they took the sample of his blood and put it under a microscope and then said "Eureka" there is an AIDS virus right there and there. If one was able to do that, then the test is rock solid. However, you cannot see viruses under a microscope--perhaps only on an electron microscope but in that case you get an image not the actual visual of the virus. Many of the tests ten years ago focused on testing for a substance in the blood which is indicative of HIV, not actual HIV itself. Now, don't get me wrong, its going to lead you to the right conclusion in most cases, but there are going to be cases where the positive was a positive, but not an absolute confirmation that HIV exists. Tommy mentioned steroids contributed to the false positive and that might be the case. Test results can be distorted when one does not take into account the history of the individual. The best way to go about this is to run different tests of the same sample. That would be more accurate than just relying on one type of test.

Keep in mind that 10% of the Scandinavian population is immune to the HIV virus. This was one of the side effects of the Plague in Europe during the Middle Ages which eliminated a significant portion of the European gene pool (those with stronger immune systems survived at higher rates than those who did not). The result was the European population from then on was stronger in terms of immunity than ever previously, which also explains why they were able to conquer the Indians in the Americas (Indians died at a much higher rate than Europeans during disease outbreak). I am not going to go into details as to which parts of Europe has better immunity, but just know that some people are immune to the HIV. Since the Scandinavian countries spend much more per capita on research and development, I am not surprised to find out about their discovery first. I am sure Italy and Spain will find similar results in their populations too, if not already if they do the survey.

My point with this is that Tommy never got ill. If his test was a false postive the first two times, he tested negative multiple times since then on a multitude of tests spanning years, not just days. If his positive was not initially false, well, he has European ancestry, so he may have been one of the lucky ones that had the immunity to zero in on the T4 cells which HIV likes to use as a host and won the battle. Most peoples immune system cannot attack the T4 cells that the HIV nestle in. Why? because the T4 cells are involved in the Germ defense in your body. The body, for the most part, is not designed to attack itself per say (there are autoimmune diseases, but that's an exception, not the norm).

I know Magic's tests are also negative/undetectable because of the drugs he is taking. Some of you assert it could be the same with Tommy. Well, is there any evidence that he is taking the same stuff as Magic? Nothing like that has been reported and I would think it would have been taken into account. We don't know for sure. All I am presenting here are plausible explanantions, that's all. You guys came up with good stuff too, but I am just merely adding other scenarios so we all get a clear picture.

SDavid · February 23, 2007 11:30PM

Good post, DG. Having seen a few of Tommy's interviews during the last few years, I still think the biggest question mark is whether it's safe for *him* to fight - not whether it's safe for others to fight him. The man has suffered a ton of knockdowns, has taken heavy drugs since his banishment (crystal meth for one), and is nowhere near as sharp as he used to be. It's hard for me to believe that he still has strong enough reflexes to protect himself against genuine professional boxers.

stown · February 24, 2007 1:09AM

<< He took a second test just days later and it was also positive. >>

I was under the impression that he said only 1 test came back positive. If there's a second, that throws out his false-positive theory.

SDavid · February 24, 2007 7:08AM

<< He took a second test just days later and it was also positive. >>

I was under the impression that he said only 1 test came back positive. If there's a second, that throws out his false-positive theory.

No it doesn't. If he was taking a supplement that would cause a false positive, then that supplement would still be in his system when he took it the second time. I doubt that anyone who was diagnosed with HIV back then was only given one test, but people were still misdiagnosed.

DirtyHarry · February 24, 2007 10:45AM

I appeciate the in depth surgery on this. The HW game is wide open. If he can pass muster, why not. It's about what the public wants to see. He will probably be "one and done", but give him his shot if he is not a hazard to the game.

DeutscherGeist · March 12, 2007 7:25PM

There are a lot of old timers coming back or sticking around.

It makes the heavy weight more entertaining.

Tommy Morrison to get back in the ring

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