EBAY seller dryllig........cracked PSA cases?

craigger · February 20, 2007 7:01AM

I recently purchased 1935 PSA7 Bobby Jones and 1935 PSA6 Joe Louis SPORTING EVENTS AND STARS from this seller. When the cards arrived today from overseas, both cases are very frosted along the bottom of the cases and a little up the sides also. Isthere anything else to look for for this evidence of tampering?

I have sent the seller an email asking for a refund..I was pretty nice and didn't blame it on him, but bottom line is that they appear to be switched out fakes. ..ANY OTHER ADVICE....PLEASE HELP!

ajw · February 20, 2007 7:03AM

Scans?

shagrotn77 · February 20, 2007 7:50AM

Yes, we'll need to see scans first.

craigger · February 20, 2007 8:06AM

guys - i apologize for not being able to do scans, but basically there is a clear notch on all psa holders about 3/4 way down on both sides.
The entire portion on the bottom between those notches is very cloudy and one even has what looks like a tiny windshield circular crack on that area on the bottom. From those descriptions, any help???

jimq112 · February 20, 2007 8:16AM

Do they sstill look like these?

craigger · February 20, 2007 8:18AM

that is them!!!!!! how did you know???? HELPplease....

jimq112 · February 20, 2007 8:21AM

What I mean is, do the slabs still look like that or are they frosted now? All slabs have that little screwdriver mark along the edges, is that the mark you're talking about?

craigger · February 20, 2007 8:24AM

the slabs are now frosted - the 2 cards i got are the ones pictured together. The bottomsareNOT CLEAN like those at all!! They are All frosted on the bottoms...

craigger · February 20, 2007 8:25AM

the psa#'s match the ones side by side...but the cases do not match those cases on the bottom...

jimq112 · February 20, 2007 8:37AM

With all the joe louis cards he's had lately it's possible he had some raw cards and swapped yours out before shipping. Maybe that's why the rotten scans.

If you used paypal file an items not as described complaint. If not paypal then file the same thing with ebay. Save the auction pics and find somebody with a good scanner to get you good clear scans. Hopefully the centering is different or something to help your case.

Give him a little time to respond also -

jimq112 · February 20, 2007 8:39AM

You bought a 7 and he sent you a 5?

storm888 · February 20, 2007 8:41AM

Without looking at good scans of the problem, it is hard know.
Generally, frosting is a VERY bad sign.

If the cards look definitely different than the ones you bought,
then they were likely switched.

If you paid via PayPal, file a claim...NOW.

If you did not use PP, but paid with a credit card, call the CC company.

If the cards look the same as the ones you bought, the holders
could have been hurt on their trip. PSA will reholder them cheap.

craigger · February 20, 2007 8:54AM

ok - here's the update - the joe louis card is the same one pictured on the top, but mine is COMPLETELY FROSTED ON BOTTOM. . The bobby jones i got is a psa7, but isn't pictured. The auction i won lists a psa#12510243, but the pic in the bobby jones is a different pic. Regardless WHAT SCARED ME EVEN BEFORE I SAW THE FROSTING WAS THAT BOTH CARDS IN THE CASES ARE FLAWLESS CARDS, REPRINTS I AM SURE. There is no way either of the cards (reprints) i got woulkd get anything less than 9's or 10's.

XanaduNow · February 20, 2007 9:03AM

Craigger,

How familiar are you with the 1935 JA Pattreioux Sporting Events & Stars? I've bought from Dryllig before and have always received good and prompt service. It's really hard to say for sure without scans of the cards in question. The seller deals a lot in pre-war golf and boxing. I think he's one of the few UK sellers who actively submits to PSA and usually sells high-quality cards. I just think we should see scans before we trash a seller.

Arthur

grote15 · February 20, 2007 9:04AM

I just think we should see scans before we trash a seller.

Agree 100%.

Brian48 · February 20, 2007 9:04AM

I had to go through this same ordeal over a year ago with a Bobby Orr rookie in a tampered slab. Had to file a PP dispute claim against the seller before I could get my money back. I did have to send the card into PSA for them to issue a formal letter on my behalf. With the letter in hand backing up my case, there was really no way for me to lose my case with PP. It may have taken a little longer, but there was no way I wasn't going to get my money back.

storm888 · February 20, 2007 9:07AM

" I just think we should see scans before we trash a seller."

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XanaduNow · February 20, 2007 9:12AM

Craigger,

I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I've bought many cards from that set. In my experience I've noticed that many of the cards, on the surface (pardon the pun), appear to be in great shape ... perfect centering, sharp corners, etc. But many of those cards have severe surface issues including scratches in the gloss that can sometimes be very deep and aren't visible unless held at an angle under a light with a loupe.

Like I said, we'd really be much more capable of helping you if we had scans to reference.

Arthur

craigger · February 20, 2007 9:14AM

I agree with you guys, but a scanner isn't an option right now. I have already filed with Paypal. The bottom line is you guys don't have to trash him, i am just looking for some info. I used to have the #3 all time Hank Aaron master set, so i am aware of what a good slab looks like. These are completely frosted and the one that is the serial # pictured above of Joe Louis 04535481 IS NOT THE SAME SLAB...MAYBE IT IS AFTER A SCREWDRIVER AND A HAMMER.

Golfcollector · February 20, 2007 9:20AM

I too have bought (and sold) to this seller many many times.

I will say that I would be AMAZED if someone actually was counterfitting this set. It is readily available and acutally the Jones card is likely one of his least expensive and easiest to find.

I would definately take it up with the seller before filing a claim..but just my $.02

grote15 · February 20, 2007 9:22AM

I would definately take it up with the seller before filing a claim..but just my $.02

Agree 100% again.

Craigger, Have you even tried e-mailing the seller to resolve this issue?

craigger · February 20, 2007 9:24AM

Guys - i have gotten a couple decent pics, not scans, but you can clearly see the problem...especially the card which is pictured in this series of emails....PLEASE SEND ME EMAIL ADDRESSES AND I WILL SEND THRU MY KODAK CAMERA. It could take couple of hours to arrive...thanks for your help...

craigger · February 20, 2007 5:58PM

bump - guys please send me some email addresses so i can forward you pics of thefrosted cases
thanks-craig

jimq112 · February 20, 2007 6:06PM

Turn your PMs on, you can email to jimq112@ yahoo.com and I'll host them for you

craigger · February 20, 2007 6:25PM

Sorry -PM has been turned on - i'm not sure why it was everturned off...anyway, pics have been sent.
thanks

craigger · February 20, 2007 7:20PM

Keith, the seller, emailed me this am and has agreed to take the cards and refund me. As he states, he just got the cards back from psa about a week ago. He has requested all packing materials to try to see what might have happened. Thanks to all who have offerred advice, etc.
Craig

jimq112 · February 20, 2007 8:39PM

Moot point now but here's your pics

craig19 · February 20, 2007 9:48PM

Guys - any opinions? The actual slabs look much worse then the dig pics...looks like it will be sorted out, but was just looking for opinions..

packCollector · February 20, 2007 10:56PM

without holding them , slabs look fine to me . I get slabs back all the time from psa that look just like that. without holding the cards or having quality scans of the 1st auction and his auctions , it is tough to say. the frosting should go all the way around if the cards were replaced, there should also be some other indication of a separation besides the normal slot that comes on the holder

craig19 · February 21, 2007 12:03AM

look a little closer - the bottom left of the jones card has a crack right on the little tab piece...also please look at the joe louis earlier in this thread - the bottom is clean....mine is no where near clean..

XanaduNow · February 21, 2007 12:32AM

Craig,

More than anything I'm looking at the cards in the slab. They look fine to me. As someone mentioned earlier, I would be amazed if anyone was out there reprinting the Pattreioux cards. But, you got your refund so all's well that ends well.

Arthur

Golfcollector · February 21, 2007 5:30AM

<< <i>Keith, the seller, emailed me this am and has agreed to take the cards and refund me. As he states, he just got the cards back from psa about a week ago. He has requested all packing materials to try to see what might have happened. Thanks to all who have offerred advice, etc.
Craig >>

So did you actually ever email Him or did he send you an email.....

Just curious,

craig19 · February 21, 2007 5:54AM

i emailed him and advised my displeasure with what i received, and also immediately filed paypal claims for the 2 cards. It was early last night. He replied early this morning.

XanaduNow · February 21, 2007 5:57AM

Craig,

Just out of curiosity, why would you file a PayPal claim before contacting the seller in regard to their return policy?

Arthur

stown · February 21, 2007 6:24AM

<< <i>i emailed him and advised my displeasure with what i received, and also immediately filed paypal claims for the 2 cards. It was early last night. He replied early this morning. >>

Based upon the pictures, I think you may have jumped the gun here. Nothing appears to be tampered with but I could be wrong.

Perhaps next time, try to work it out with the seller prior to bringing paypal in.

SoFLPhillyFan · February 21, 2007 6:36AM

Are "craigger" and "craig19" the same person?

Looks like both have posted addressing these cards as theirs.

BarkusD · February 21, 2007 6:42AM

I have received cards from PSA with slabs with frosted bottoms. Recently I had a buyer freak out that some $10 card I sold him had been tampered with. I knew it wasn't the case because I had the card graded myself and I never tampered with the slab. Anyone who thinks frosting is a sure sign of tampering is wrong. I have thousands of recently graded slabs in my home office and I would say at least 10% of the cards came back with some degree of frosting on the bottom of the slab.

Archaninator · February 21, 2007 6:43AM

.

craigger · February 21, 2007 6:45AM

yes they are the same - i didn't even realize that my office computer and home have 2 different profiles set up. I apologize to those who think i jumped the gun, but i was very upset when i saw the holders. One of the earliest responses in this thread had suggested to file immediately. Also i believe sellers react more prompt when they see the claim filed. Remember it isn't a CLAIM at first, but an opening for COMMUNICATION, which might not start if the claim isn't started.

Also trust me, if i had a scanner i would have scanned and any doubters would have told me to return the cards immediately..

No reason to continue the thread anymore, and thanks again for all the inputs and pm's i received..

grote15 · February 21, 2007 9:34AM

Craig,

Just out of curiosity, why would you file a PayPal claim before contacting the seller in regard to their return policy?

Excellent point. Much ado about nothing it seems.

MorrellMan · February 21, 2007 11:38AM

I agree with David - the seller is highly visible and I've done a lot of business with him. My only problem with him, and it's minor, is sometimes he likes his cards too much, but I would approach him respectfully and responsibly if I had any concerns about his offerings. He's clearly in this for the long run.

packCollector · February 21, 2007 2:01PM

<< <i>Remember it isn't a CLAIM at first, but an opening for COMMUNICATION, >>

One last point , this is not true , once you file a complaint , they yank the money out of the sellers account .

storm888 · February 21, 2007 2:14PM

<< Remember it isn't a CLAIM at first, but an opening for COMMUNICATION, >>

One last point , this is not true , once you file a complaint , they yank the money out of the sellers account . "

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

The first step is DISPUTE:

Seller is notified of the problem, shown the process to resolve it,
and funds equal to the "disputed" amount are "frozen."

The second step is escalating the DISPUTE, to a "CLAIM."

Seller has one more opportunity to prove his case; PP then
makes a judgment and disburses the frozen money to the buyer.

It is a distinction without a difference, from the seller's viewpoint;
the initial filing blocks access to the frozen funds.

Sellers who are hit with too many disputes, can be forced by PP
to establish a "reserve" within the account; this money cannot
be retrieved until PP cancels the reserve requirement. No interest
is paid to the seller on reserve funds; PP earns interest on such
reserves.

EBAY seller dryllig........cracked PSA cases?

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