From the QDB Nickel book—did the silver wartime Jeffersons really help the war effort?

Longacre

I was reading the new QDB book on Jefferson and Buffalo nickels. Like others, I assumed that there was a massive shortage of nickel during the WWII years, and one of the ways to conserve the metal was to switch Jefferson nickels to a copper/silver/manganese alloy. Because I was not alive back then, I just assumed that the story was true (as an aside, my grandparents and parents, actually, still reuse tin foil. I try to tell them that WWII is over, but to no avail).

Here is a quote from the book, which is pretty interesting:

“In an insightful article from The Numismatist in 2000, Mark A. Benvenuto, a chemistry professor, provided data suggesting that about 827,163 pounds of nickel metal might have been saved by the alloy switch, but “statistically, this figure is pretty insignificant” in view of about 300 million pounds of nickel produced annually during World War II, about 60% of which was available for use of the Allies.”

Further, Benvenuto stated in the article, “If the savings afforded by changing the composition of the 5 cent piece was so minimal, why did the Mint even bother? My theory is that the action was intended simply to be a morale booster. Every time John Q. Public saw the enlarged mintmark atop Monticello, he knew that even the US Mint was doing its part for the war effort. … It appears that the United States was in little danger of running out of nickel for coins or the manufacture of steel. It would also seem that the Mint was willing and able to do its duty by doing without.”

*********************

I never heard of this theory before. What do you think about it? The book indicates that no official records corroborate it (or discredit it), but contemporary figures for worldwide nickel production tend to support it.

cladking

Not only was this the primary reason but it's quite likely a major secondary reason
was to use up silver that had gotten down as low as 28c / OZt only seven years
earlier at the time the peace dollar went out of production. Manganese is, and was,
plentiful. While nickel was important, it was less important than copper which was
nearly unaffected by this switch. Nickel has never had very many important uses
except as alloy for stainless steel. There would be no dramatic increases in stainless
demand as a result of the war. I believe there are a few critical airplane parts that
required stainless but these would have been small parts.

This would imply that saving nickel was actually a tertiary reason for the switch. The
addition of manganese to the alloy and addition of large mint mark would assure peo=
ple noticed this change, which was likely the primary reason.

PerryHall

Do you guys actually believe the general public took the time to notice a new mintmark location and size? These are the same people that confused the SBA dollar with the quarter.

cladking

<< <i>Do you guys actually believe the general public took the time to notice a new mintmark location and size? These are the same people that confused the SBA dollar with the quarter. >>




The manganese assured it would darken quickly. Cu/ Ag tends to darken as
well, but not so quickly. Of course the high manganese helped displace copper
which was more important for the war effort.

The mint mark change was relatively minor compared to all the other changes.

keets

Further, Benvenuto stated
provided data suggesting
My theory is..........

yeah, let's replace one supposed myth with another, right??

Longacre

<< <i>

<< <i>Do you guys actually believe the general public took the time to notice a new mintmark location and size? These are the same people that confused the SBA dollar with the quarter. >>




The manganese assured it would darken quickly. Cu/ Ag tends to darken as
well, but not so quickly. Of course the high manganese helped displace copper
which was more important for the war effort.

The mint mark change was relatively minor compared to all the other changes. >>



I think the manganese was used to get the right signature for the vending machine industry, too.

Writersblock

<< <i>I think the manganese was used to get the right signature for the vending machine industry, too. >>


Not likely considering the coin mechanisms of the day were strictly mechanical.



<< <i>Of course the high manganese helped displace copper
which was more important for the war effort. >>


The lower denity manganese would have been used to offset the higher density silver. If the coin had been just copper and silver the specific gravity would have been too high and a coin the same size as the current nickel would have weighed too much and been rejected by vending machines. If they made it the same weight, it would have been smaller than the nickel and again the machines would reject it. By including the lowerdensity manganese they balance the specific gravity and get a coin of the same size and weight as the current nickel.

Pentimento

That's how I interpreted Longacre's use of the word 'signature.'

Cladiator

Every little bit helped. This was a war of survival, not a war like we see today. We either won or lost. If we'd lost, most of those reading this would not have been born and those of us that did manage to be born would be speaking German (east US) or Japanese (West Coast) and not enjoy any of the freedoms we have today.

Back in 1942 they didn't have the privilege that we do of seeing those events in hindsight. They did not know if we were going to win the war or not. The war was for their very existence and any measure that will help in any amount is well worth while. Including saving a relatively small amount of nickel from our coinage.

The people of that generation knew sacrifice intimately and they knew the consequences of not being willing to make those sacrifices were far worse than the sacrifices themselves.

claychaser

I think Cladiator has a point. The government would not not to use any extra material, because of the risk of supply interruption and the resources needed to mine nickel domestically could be deployed elsewhere. And, the amounts needed would not be known, as no one knew how long the war would last. In a fight for survival, using the metal in coins would be an unnessary risk to take.

MajorDuty

<< <i>That's how I interpreted Longacre's use of the word 'signature.' >>



Yeah but why use only one word if you can type a whole paragraph?

cladking

<< <i>I think Cladiator has a point. The government would not not to use any extra material, because of the risk of supply interruption and the resources needed to mine nickel domestically could be deployed elsewhere. And, the amounts needed would not be known, as no one knew how long the war would last. In a fight for survival, using the metal in coins would be an unnessary risk to take.

>>




Coins would still be available as a resource.

Scrap drives in WWII were highly effective at recovering all sorts of scrap. Large
percentages of many telephone tokens were destroyed. This applied to various
other sorts of tokens as well. Coins could simply be recalled from the banks and
Fed and would recieve huge cooperation from the public.

I'm sure no one meant to imply there was something wrong with changing the alloy,
merely that the announced reasons were not the most important reasons.

CaptHenway

When my Dad was in the South Pacific in the Summer of 1945, with orders to be prepared to head North for the invasion of Japan in September of that year, the scuttlebutt was that with luck the war would be over by 1948. Had the bomb not work, that would have been a good estimate.
TD

RWB

According to documents relating to the planned 1942 half dime, it was copper that was the most critical material. The war control board changed its list of metals frequently and the mint was trying to find cent and nickel alloys that did not contain strategic metals - or at least minimized their use. The new alloy for the five cent coin was a compromise so that the coins weight and size would be close enough to the CuNi alloy to maintain public confidence and also work in vending machines. BTW the manganese had to be electrolytic.

Longacre

<< <i>According to documents relating to the planned 1942 half dime, it was copper that was the most critical material. The war control board changed its list of metals frequently and the mint was trying to find cent and nickel alloys that did not contain strategic metals - or at least minimized their use. The new alloy for the five cent coin was a compromise so that the coins weight and size would be close enough to the CuNi alloy to maintain public confidence and also work in vending machines. BTW the manganese had to be electrolytic. >>




Leave it to RWB to provide an authoritative response, supported by source documents.

RWB

The 1942 Half Dime article is in the August 2006 issue of Coin Values. Back issues can be obtained from Coin World/Amos Press.

cladking

<< <i>According to documents relating to the planned 1942 half dime, it was copper that was the most critical material. The war control board changed its list of metals frequently and the mint was trying to find cent and nickel alloys that did not contain strategic metals - or at least minimized their use. The new alloy for the five cent coin was a compromise so that the coins weight and size would be close enough to the CuNi alloy to maintain public confidence and also work in vending machines. BTW the manganese had to be electrolytic. >>




Use of copper in 1943 niclels was significantly higher than the last full year
of peace in 1940, and had doubled each of the previous two years. It was
nearly as great as in 1941 when the economy was barely beginning to get
on a war footing. And perhaps more importantly, there was no great in-
crease in the use of copper after the war was over. By the late '40's copper
usage was plummeting in both cents and nickels.

These things can not be looked at in a vacuum. The recovering economy re-
quired a specific number of coins or the economy would be affected. If cop-
per or nickel were so vital a war material then coinage could have been made
without them. All over Europe and the world there were coins being made
of metals that were non-traditional and the same thing occurred in WW I to
a much lesser extent. A silver half dime would have saved large amounts of
copper.

Nickel has long been vital for relatively few applications. It's unlikely that
there were vast stockpiles of it in the '40's any more than there are today.

kwmorgan

My great uncle was on Tinian Island during 1944-1945. He was a medic for the B-29's, I think I remember him saying. I remember him telling about bombing Tokyo. I asked if they bombed the Imperial Palace. He said, "No, you don't bomb their God". He also saw the two nukes. He said everyone was asking what they were and the crews would only say "Don't worry, the war is going to be over very soon".