Regarding surface wrinkles on cards??

AlbertanDude · February 20, 2007 2:40AM

I have been going through quite a bit of my nice raw stuff from the 71/72 opc nhl set which is notorious for these little
surface wrinkles on the back of the second series cards....some of them range from a couple of millimeters to an inch long...

Indeed, you have to hold the card just right to the light to be able to see them....

My question is this......what does PSA grading dock you for these wrinkles even though they are on the back???

I need to know as to avoid sending in anything with these wrinkles if they really penalize you.....

Otherwise these cards are beautifully centered and glossy and near perfect...

Help out this Canuck if you will...

Thanks

ldferg · February 20, 2007 2:47AM

if they notice them, 5 at a minimum.

just got back some 82t fb that i submitted from a wax box bust and yielded 13 5's....i've not seen them yet but i'm sure they have the surface wrinkles similar to yours as other cards in the submission were graded 9s and 10s.

shagrotn77 · February 20, 2007 2:47AM

If they catch the wrinkle, I believe it's an automatic 5. If not, and it is otherwise mint, you could get a 9. Surface wrinkles do sometimes slip by the graders, especially on the back.

storm888 · February 20, 2007 2:51AM

"...what does PSA grading dock you for these wrinkles even though they are on the back???"

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Usually, in my experience, an automatic 5 on a card that would have been a 9 or 10.

You might as well try to just press the things out; if you can EVEN find them.
They do press out, but they may come back months/years later. If they are
correctly pressed out, they will usually not be seen by the graders.

Alfonz24 · February 20, 2007 2:54AM

<< "...what does PSA grading dock you for these wrinkles even though they are on the back???"

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Usually, in my experience, an automatic 5 on a card that would have been a 9 or 10.

You might as well try to just press the things out; if you can EVEN find them.
They do press out, but they may come back months/years later. If they are
correctly pressed out, they will usually not be seen by the graders. >>

Isn't this altering cards? Especially knowing that they will come back.

AlbertanDude · February 20, 2007 2:56AM

Are you guys serious?? A five...holy cow...isn't that a little steep for some tiny cheesy surface wrinkles??

Well......if you can iron them out, I am certainly going to attempt to do so........Uh...so how does one
go about that?

storm888 · February 20, 2007 3:05AM

"Isn't this altering cards? Especially knowing that they will come back. "

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I would say so.

It is a VERY common practice among many auction houses, and
large sellers.

Many think it is not altering a card. They say they are just fixing
what could be either a minor pre-production, production, or post-production
defect.

Anybody who has 10s from any grading service likely owns at
least one card that was "made the best that it could be" before
it was submitted. Check your old 10s to see if any of the creases
have reappeared, yet.

Auction houses get tons of raw consignments. They pick and choose
what cards they will send out for grading. They never knowingly
submit a card with a minor surface wrinkle, or a piece of wax on it;
such "problems" are routinely fixed pre-submission.

envoy98 · February 20, 2007 3:05AM

I just plucked about 35 cards from my original sift of 88 Topps football because of small "cheesy" surface wrinkles.

I won't press them out and hope they get by the graders. because the cards aren't worth grading.

To be honest, if I bought a card that had surface wrinkles coming back a few months later I'd be pretty pi$$ed off about it.

I don't think I'd be asking how to press out wrinkles or how to soak on these boards. Plenty of info on the Net54 boards for that kind of information.

storm888 · February 20, 2007 3:06AM

To be honest, if I bought a card that had surface wrinkles coming back a few months later I'd be pretty pi$$ed off about it.

I don't think I'd be asking how to press out wrinkles or how to soak on these boards. Plenty of info on the Net54 boards for that kind of information.

////////////////////////////////////////////////

AlbertanDude · February 20, 2007 3:09AM

Guys, I went to the url for the 71 opc nhl set and their is a write up about and it states that these cards
were notorious for what is called a factory ripple??? here is the url and look to the bottom of the article...

http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4643&universeid=314&type=1

What I wondering is this actually considered a surface wrinkle then or are we talking about something different??

I really don't know...

If one of you guys could pm , perhaps you could tell how one actually tries to erase these wrinkles or ripples
or if it is even possible???

Thanks

storm888 · February 20, 2007 3:10AM

"I just plucked about 35 cards from my original sift of 88 Topps
football because of small "cheesy" surface wrinkles."

////////////////////////////////////////////////

Me too.

I got tired of wasting money on 10s that came back 5s.

Maybe PSA should consider a qualifier (SW) for beautiful cards
that have a wrinkle which can only be seen with a micorscope.

AlbertanDude · February 20, 2007 4:36PM

Bump....I need help here folks...

ken61 · February 20, 2007 9:13PM

I agree with the other posters that you will probably get a 5.

I bought a 48 Leaf Jack Dempsey a few years back via phone auction that was graded a PSA6. When I received the card, I was sure it was misgraded. It was dead-centered with great corners and perfect focus. I cracked it and re-submitted (the only time I've ever cracked a PSA-graded card). It came back a PSA5. Upon close inspection under a lamp (this was before I purchased a halogen lamp and loupe), I noticed a 1/4 inch surface wrinkle on one of the front borders. The wrinkle is not discernable with the naked eye unless the card is held at just the right angle.

Bummer. The card looks like it would easily grade an 8 sans the wrinkle. Well, at least I have a PSA5 48 Leaf Dempsey with good eye appeal.

ken61 · February 20, 2007 9:32PM

Sorry, I got off on a tangent about my Dempsey card and didn't answer your question - will surface wrinkles on the back get your card docked a few grades. I'm not 100% positive but I think yes. I don't believe I have any PSA8 cards with surface wrinkles on the back (or if I do I have not noticed).

gosteelers · February 20, 2007 10:24PM

What is PSA's policy for return of cards that are graded 8-9-10 that have had surface wrinkles 're-appear'? I just received a PSA 9 that has a pretty noticeable front of the card surface wrinkle.

lawnmowerman · February 20, 2007 10:31PM

<< What is PSA's policy for return of cards that are graded 8-9-10 that have had surface wrinkles 're-appear'? I just received a PSA 9 that has a pretty noticeable front of the card surface wrinkle. >>

Im sure they would buy back the card for whatever value they see fit. I believe they would send you vouchers.

They took care of me on a card I bought off ebay that had a surface issue. They sent me vouchers equivalent to the cards worth. It wasnt a wrinkle but I cant see a wrinkle being different from any other issue.

gosteelers · February 20, 2007 11:53PM

So, for instance, if the SMR value is $90 on my wrinkled PSA 9, would they give $90 worth of vouchers?

Thanks!

lawnmowerman · February 21, 2007 12:09AM

<< So, for instance, if the SMR value is $90 on my wrinkled PSA 9, would they give $90 worth of vouchers?

Thanks! >>

I dont know if they go by smr or not. It seems that they should though.

My card was not in the smr but they still sent me 4 vouchers which I thought was cool.

ajw · February 21, 2007 12:22AM

I *love* little cheesy surface wrinkles. They allow me to buy cards I couldn't (or wouldn't) otherwise afford.

Like this one:

digicat · February 21, 2007 12:44AM

I guess they don't grade all surface wrinlkes the same. I've had a card with a "surface wrinlke" within .5 cm of the corner, going from right edge to bottom edge , and it pulled a 6, not 5.

I've also had a few cards with a "wrinlke" going down the length of the back of the card, right along the edge (like the card was factory cut with a very dull blade). One got an 8, the other got a 9.

Stone193 · February 21, 2007 12:58AM

Does it matter how big the wrinkle?

I would say possibly - I got a 6 on this card - I missed this surface scrape - and since this came directly out of a vendning box - it happened at the factory.

mike

envoy98 · February 21, 2007 2:12AM

<< 

<< What is PSA's policy for return of cards that are graded 8-9-10 that have had surface wrinkles 're-appear'? I just received a PSA 9 that has a pretty noticeable front of the card surface wrinkle. >>

Im sure they would buy back the card for whatever value they see fit. I believe they would send you vouchers.

They took care of me on a card I bought off ebay that had a surface issue. They sent me vouchers equivalent to the cards worth. It wasnt a wrinkle but I cant see a wrinkle being different from any other issue. >>

Two things:

First, if the card has flaws commonly associated with the issue, they do overlook it to an extent. This is true for rough cuts on OPC hockey, 57 Topps baseball, and even more odd, 71 Topps football. My Terry Bradshaw (PSA 7) has what looks to be a solid crease going clear across the top edge. I was told by PSA at the Sun Times show in Chicago last October that it was common for the issue and was accurately graded. Needless to say, I'll be selling that one and buying a 7 that doesn't have that "common" flaw.

Second, in regards to PSA buying back cards or giving vouchers, my experience was quite different. I brought in a handful of cards that were obviously overgraded. Many have heard me vent on these in the past. My 76 Topps Walter Payton, PSA 9, has a chip out of the face of the card where you can actually see the dark brown cardboard through it. I was told that it had good eye appeal, strong corners and centering, but would be an 8 one day and a 9 the next. Nothing they could do.
Next card, 71 Topps Bradshaw in the PSA 7 holder...Common for the issue, accurately graded. Tough luck.
Next card, 74 Topps Ahmad Rashad PSA 9. Stain in the middle right edge that goes completely through the card and is about 1/16" in diameter. Told that it should have gotten an ST qualifier... then was asked, "What is it you are trying to have happen here?" I was then asked if I was the original submitter, which I wasnt of course and told that they would just issue a refund to the original submitter. Which wouldn't have done me any good since I had purchased these off ebay. My argument was that they are the graders and consistency should be considered. I buy cards off ebay already PSA graded because I know what I'm getting...unlike the many failed "raw" purchase adventures I've taken. When I get something like these examples, it is disappointing. <shrug>

Needless to say, I was VERY disappointed with my experience in this regard and was very close to giving up on PSA.

I've since reevaluated my position and decided that those cards don't fit my personal collecting "wants" so I will sell them and better buy one that meets what I'm looking for. Easy enough I suppose.

-Josh

gosteelers · February 21, 2007 2:26AM

and even more odd, 71 Topps football

Thanks for the reply. The card that I have that has a wrinkle is a 1971 Topps Football PSA 9 of Jan Stenerud. I guess I'm out of luck!

AlbertanDude · February 22, 2007 3:07PM

Envoy is that really true? That they will not dock if they know that particular year had troubles from the factory
with surface wrinkles? Because the 71 opc nhl 2nd series is known for that....I have tonnes of high grade raw stuff
from this series but about half of them have from very tiny surface wrinkles to longer ones....

And they are all on the back only....never on the front.....

Is their a chance then they will look past it???

Thanks

storm888 · February 22, 2007 3:24PM

"I was then asked if I was the original submitter, which I wasnt of
course and told that they would just issue a refund to the original
submitter. "

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That does not comport with the understanding of about 99%
of the people who buy high-end cards from famous auction
houses.

themetalsign · February 23, 2007 4:01AM

I know the 4 - 1971 PSA 8's you just received from me don't have any wrinkles.

Dave D.

gosteelers · February 23, 2007 4:14AM

<< I know the 4 - 1971 PSA 8's you just received from me don't have any wrinkles.

Dave D. >>

Dave,
Nope, they weren't the ones you sent me!

Estil · February 23, 2007 5:08AM

While we're on this subject, I have always wondered; what is the difference between a "surface wrinkle" and an outright crease? Or does "surface wrinkle" = "light crease"?

themetalsign · February 23, 2007 5:51AM

You can see a crease.

You have to look for a wrinkle.

Morgoth · February 23, 2007 8:11AM

Wrinkles are like "pinches" in the paper and do not go all the way through the cardboard. They are to me similar to the bubbles you see.

ldferg · February 23, 2007 8:17AM

albertandude,
send in a couple to test or call/email them and ask. that may yield the best results and you'd feel more comfortable hearing it right from psa.

AlbertanDude · February 23, 2007 8:43AM

Idferg that sounds like a good idea....do you guys have a phone number I can phone this request into
PSA or a email??? I could send them a scan as an example....

LMK

Thanks

Regarding surface wrinkles on cards??

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