DON'T DEAL WITH MOOKSTER - He gave me a negative feedback for paying immediately
frankhardy
Posts: 8,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
I bought a couple of items from Ebay username Mookster. They were not expensive. I bought a 1964 Topps Giants Dick Groat autographed and a Buck O'Neil autographed index card.
The bottom line is that I paid immediately on January 4th. After a couple of weeks I had not received. He said they must have gotten lost in the mail. He said he had another O'Neil, but not another Groat. He said he would refund my money and send the 2nd O'Neil. I finally received the item February 16th. I left positive feedback for the O'Neil and a neutral for the Groat.
He turns right around and leaves me a positive for the O'Neil and A NEGATIVE for the Groat! Flippin' ridiculous!
My feedback
The bottom line is that I paid immediately on January 4th. After a couple of weeks I had not received. He said they must have gotten lost in the mail. He said he had another O'Neil, but not another Groat. He said he would refund my money and send the 2nd O'Neil. I finally received the item February 16th. I left positive feedback for the O'Neil and a neutral for the Groat.
He turns right around and leaves me a positive for the O'Neil and A NEGATIVE for the Groat! Flippin' ridiculous!
My feedback
Shane
0
Comments
If you call him and rail, he'll feel justified.
Maybe call and tactfully point out that perhaps maybe possibly he might have made a teensy mistake in his feedback....if he insists he was justified, then he's a double dork.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Steve
To me it doesn't sound like he deserved a neutral???
I did tactfully email him like you said. I haven't heard back from him yet.
Shane
<< <i>I leave positive feedback for refunds, or none at all, for obvious reasons.
To me it doesn't sound like he deserved a neutral???
I have to agree.
I was left a neutral once because Fedex sent it to the wrong address. On the Fedex paper work I filled out, I sent it to the correct address that the buyer provided. I made phone calls to Fedex, googled the address and figured out where it went. I did all kinds of legwork and the jerk left me a netrual anyway.
I wasnt tooo happy.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
As a matter of fact, I would not have been upset in the least if he would have responded with a neutral for me. I half way expected it. No harm no foul. BUT A FRIGGIN' NEGATIVE? Come on!
Shane
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>This transaction was pushing 2 months AND I had to send him 3 or 4 emails to get 1 back >>
I see what your saying about it taking too long. Also since you now mentioned the email thing, a netrual from you sounds fair.
My situation was different due to the fact that I worked with the buyer promptly to get the issue resolved.
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
While I agree with you a neutral might have been fair for the seller (taking 2 months to resolve the matter), I think many would have just moved on. I guess it all depends on how much you covet your feedback. If you're satisifed with 99.1% or above, then leave the negative or neutral. If you want to maintain 100% at all costs, you leave it be.
I would bet if you asked the board before leaving the neutral what you should do in the matter, most would have told you to just let it go, especially when the other party hasn't left feedback yet.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>Wow, that sucks.
While I agree with you a neutral might have been fair for the seller (taking 2 months to resolve the matter), I think many would have just moved on. I guess it all depends on how much you covet your feedback. If you're satisifed with 99.1% or above, then leave the negative or neutral. If you want to maintain 100% at all costs, you leave it be.
I would bet if you asked the board before leaving the neutral what you should do in the matter, most would have told you to just let it go, especially when the other party hasn't left feedback yet. >>
Not saying I agree with the process but until eBay changes their feedback policies, it is what it is.
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Buyers who leave neutrals for sellers who resolve problems -
even if it takes a long time - are certain to be NEGd.
Items are not even officially considered "lost" until 30-days
have passed.
storm
Bottom line, Ebays feedback system is very poor at best. I do not ever see them changing that.
Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)
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A neutral can be VERY damaging to a seller.
Neither Negs nor Neutrals mean anything to a buyer's
ability to use EBAY; they mean EVERYTHING to a seller's.
NEGs need to be reserved for crooks, scamsters, and
totally unreasonable sellers/buyers.
<< <i>"A neutral is just that, nothing, no harm, no foul."
///////////////////////////////////////////
A neutral can be VERY damaging to a seller.
Neither Negs nor Neutrals mean anything to a buyer's
ability to use EBAY; they mean EVERYTHING to a seller's.
NEGs need to be reserved for crooks, scamsters, and
totally unreasonable sellers/buyers. >>
So, this guy reciprocates with a negative? Why do I feel like I'm getting slammed here? Apparently, there is a misunderstanding by some of us on what a neutral means. A negative IS WAY MORE DAMAGING, and I have a ton of stuff on Ebay right now (178 auctions to be exact). I tried everything I could to resolve this for weeks and weeks, and you guys are saying that I should have left him positive? No way. I have done Ebay for 6 years, and I can count on one hand how many times I've left negative or neutral feedback. So, I'm not someone to do this flippantly.
Shane
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Shane was justified in giving a neutral. Just so happened the seller was a retaliator.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
As storm correctly pointed out, an item is not even considered "lost" until 30 days have passed. That is by rule of the USPS, so 6 weeks to receive the replacement card is not excessive, IMO. Bottom line here is that shane got a replacement card and a refund for the other card that was lost. I'm sure most would agree that leaving the seller a neutral was unnecessary.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It should have been a neutral, same as you left him. "
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Right or wrong, the days of that routinely happening are gone.
Leaving anything other than a POS is a sure invite for a NEG.
In the instant case, the seller solved the problem. He was
simply judged to have taken too long to do so.
January 4 to February 16 may seem like a long time. But,
if the item is not officially lost until 30-days out, the time
frame shrinks.
The two cards were part of the same mail-transaction. NEGing
on one and not the other seems unusually harsh.
I am not slamming the OP, at all. Only pointing out that
we all want to encourage sellers to solve problems;
leaving NEUTs when they do so is not a good way to
promote such solutions. And, it will almost always result
in a NEG for the buyer.
<< <i> Total time from auction end to replacement/refund was six weeks..
As storm correctly pointed out, an item is not even considered "lost" until 30 days have passed. That is by rule of the USPS, so 6 weeks to receive the replacement card is not excessive, IMO. Bottom line here is that shane got a replacement card and a refund for the other card that was lost. I'm sure most would agree that leaving the seller a neutral was unnecessary. >>
Except he made contact two weeks in and then had to wait an additional four weeks. If the seller agreed to issue the refund/replacement after two weeks, it shouldn't have taken four weeks to be received...If the seller had mentioned to give it a little more time, I'm sure Shane wouldn't have neutralled him. It's all about communication and I don't see anywhere here where the seller followed up.
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
we all want to encourage sellers to solve problems;
leaving NEUTs when they do so is not a good way to
promote such solutions. And, it will almost always result
in a NEG for the buyer.
Well put.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
neutral means. A negative IS WAY MORE DAMAGING..."
/////////////////////////////////
In an environment where "soft-positives" are seen as "red-flags"
by sophisticated buyers, there is no such thing as a non-damaging
neutral.
<< <i>So, this guy reciprocates with a negative? Why do I feel like I'm getting slammed here? Apparently, there is a misunderstanding by some of us on what a neutral means. A negative IS WAY MORE DAMAGING, and I have a ton of stuff on Ebay right now (178 auctions to be exact). I tried everything I could to resolve this for weeks and weeks, and you guys are saying that I should have left him positive? No way. I have done Ebay for 6 years, and I can count on one hand how many times I've left negative or neutral feedback. So, I'm not someone to do this flippantly. >>
And this guy followed the rules yet his name gets slammed on the PSA message board.
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
No, that is not what I took from many of the posts. I wonder why u left him a positive?
Steve
Again, this may be a difference in the interpretation of what a neutral is supposed to be. Apparantely, some of you look at it exactly like a negative. To me, neutral is neutral. Neutral means neither positive or negative.
Another issue is this - he did not give me his feedback based upon the transaction (which is what you are supposed to do), but rather based upon the feedback I gave him.
Shane
next time whenever you have more then 1 transaction with anyone do not use them all up. Especially if the other party has not left feedback yet.
Steve
Shane
Steve
Shane
Steve
I think he overreacted to your neutral.
I didn't read what others have said yet.
Can a neutral be removed along with his neg?
If so - contact ebay and see what can be arranged.
This isn't about right or wrong - it's about getting the neg removed.
Afterward, we can debate the system.
To me? The guy needs to rethink the frivolous assignment of negs. But, that's not gonna help ya right now.
Good luck - sorry for your dilemma.
mike
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To me, all buyers need to calm down and give reputable sellers
an opportunity to fix problems. When such problems are fixed,
buyers need to either say thank you with a positive, or say
nothing, or be prepared to be NEGd for leaving NEUTs.
It does not matter if that is right/wrong. It is the current state
of the buyer/seller relationship on EBAY.
Day after day on this board and others, expert buyers talk about the
"soft-positives" that sellers receive; these are seen as "negatives."
Neutrals are looked at as though they are "timid-NEGS." Tool-Haus
groups Negs/Neuts on the same search return; a neutral is the new
Neg under the current paradigm.
The instant controversy involved a VERY low-dollar transaction. Does
anybody think that any seller is not going to be upset after he solves
a USPS problem, and still gets a Neut ?
Responsible sellers live and die by their FB on EBAY. It is not good to
punish such sellers AFTER they have done what the buyer asked.
The instant seller is a longtime card person, and has not engaged
in any bad practices that I am aware of. In looking at long-past FB
on some of my accounts, I found that I had purchased a couple of
cheap autos from the seller; they both made it into PSA/DNA holders.
(That info has nothing to do with the instant controversy, just
an aside.)
Before the feedback retaliation, I would not have accused him of any bad practices either, until he retaliates with an undeserved negative feedback for a deserved (IMHO) neutral. After that, I would call that a bad practice.
Shane
<< <i>"To me? The guy needs to rethink the frivolous assignment of negs."
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
To me, all buyers need to calm down and give reputable sellers
an opportunity to fix problems. When such problems are fixed,
buyers need to either say thank you with a positive, or say
nothing, or be prepared to be NEGd for leaving NEUTs.
It does not matter if that is right/wrong. It is the current state
of the buyer/seller relationship on EBAY.
Day after day on this board and others, expert buyers talk about the
"soft-positives" that sellers receive; these are seen as "negatives."
Neutrals are looked at as though they are "timid-NEGS." Tool-Haus
groups Negs/Neuts on the same search return; a neutral is the new
Neg under the current paradigm.
The instant controversy involved a VERY low-dollar transaction. Does
anybody think that any seller is not going to be upset after he solves
a USPS problem, and still gets a Neut ?
Responsible sellers live and die by their FB on EBAY. It is not good to
punish such sellers AFTER they have done what the buyer asked.
The instant seller is a longtime card person, and has not engaged
in any bad practices that I am aware of. In looking at long-past FB
on some of my accounts, I found that I had purchased a couple of
cheap autos from the seller; they both made it into PSA/DNA holders.
(That info has nothing to do with the instant controversy, just
an aside.) >>
agree with what was said in above post. the seller provided a refund on one item and a refund on the other in reasonable timing. if you make a paypal claim for non receipt you wait 10 days to do so. if the seller produces a d/c number paypal waits 30 days for the item to show up. that's a total of 40 days. the seller is thinking he's out 2 autographs that got lost in the mail and took care of this by refunding a payment and sending a second auto out and for this he got a neutral.
Shane getting a negative for this is in no way going to make people not buy from him. i'd let it go and move on.
Steve
<< <i>Shane getting a negative for this is in no way going to make people not buy from him. i'd let it go and move on. >>
Shane did not deserve a negative for this.
It corrupts the whole rating system.
It was a childish response to a neurtral IMO. And, no - it's not gonna upset this guys whole world - but perhaps a few here may consider this guy off-limits?
mike
Actually, the opposite may be true. There aren't many sellers who will send a replacement card at their cost and issue a refund for the other lost card. That's a seller who made things right, IMO.
I recall on a different thread when a poster bought a bogus resealed 1978 box and the majority here said the seller deserved a positive after refunding the buyer's money. I don't see why that scenario is any different than this one. Both sellers made things right after a less than fulfilling transaction, so why is one guy deserving of a neutral and the other a positive, especially since one auction was for like $500 and these two were for like $10 at most?
I do agree that is was inappropriate for the seller to leave Shane a negative, but I also don't think leaving the seller a neutral was warranted in this case. And if you're going to do so, don't be surprised what you get in return. As storm pointed out, I'd say that about 95% of sellers perceive a neutral as a negative--regardless of the definition of the word neutral in the dictionary, that's the current ebay environment we deal in.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
In the old 'pre Paypal' days, the original way this was supposed to go was
(1) You won an item
(2) You paid for the item
(3) Seller left you feedback
(4) You received the item
(5) You (the buyer) left feedback
The system worked. However, year by year, you could watch the amount of people who bothered to leave feedback at all slowly decrease.
Then sometime around 2001 or so, virtually every seller jumped on the bandwagon of 'holding feedback hostage'.
They also had a 3rd party pay system where someone could PAY about $50, and both parties could have their feedback removed. (Beautiful system for guys with 10,000 ratings - someone gives them a neg, they retaliate with a neg, then they pay to have both negs removed, leaving them with a 100% rating. They were crooks making plenty of money, what's a few bucks to keep up appearances?)
Feedback scores are now useless, and eBay should never have allowed this crap to go on.
Especially now that eBay owns Paypal, when the buyer makes a payment through Paypal (which you have to assume probably 80% of transactions are), they should automatically get positive feedback - their part is done. They paid for the item.
<< <i>
<< <i>Shane getting a negative for this is in no way going to make people not buy from him. i'd let it go and move on. >>
Shane did not deserve a negative for this.
It corrupts the whole rating system.
It was a childish response to a neurtral IMO. And, no - it's not gonna upset this guys whole world - but perhaps a few here may consider this guy off-limits?
mike >>
I did not say he deserved the negative. i just said it is not going to have an affect on a buyer buying from Shane. he's got something like 2000 feedback with a high 90's percentage.
the seller refunded one payment and replaced the second item. if something is lost in the mail you give it time to show up as the seller did.
What about the buyer who attempts a chargeback with no valid reason after receiving the item, or any number of unreasonable buyers who try to scam sellers after the fact? The ugly truth is that a lot of sellers began withholding feedback because there are many dishonest buyers out there, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I do not believe it. So the guy sent what was paid for. Isn't that what you are supposed to do? just becuase it is Ebay sellers get a free ride on delivering if something is lost? Thats if it was truly lost. We do not know all the particulars in this case. If you bought something online from SEARS and it did not come would you say, well they made things right? Of course they would make things right you paid for something!
The guy gave a NEGATIVE when a negative was not warranted that is the matter here. The Neutral probably was not warranted either.
Steve
- Joe
Shane
I think it is the right thing to do as the buyer has already paid their part."
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
This thread is a fine testament to why no responsible seller
should EVER leave FB until the transaction is completed.
Any buyer who leaves unwarranted Neuts after a seller has
solved a problem caused by the USPS, should expect to get
NEGd. (Even the POS left was a backhanded-slap that
complained about "slow-shipping;" the package got lost
and had to be replaced by the seller.)
The NEG in this instance was NOT retal; it was the seller's
statement that the "total transaction" was less than
satisfactory.
Additionally, this saga points out that selling tiny-dollar
items in the wild-west of EBAY is just not worth the risk
to sellers' reputations.
<< <i>"As a seller, I leave positive feedback as soon as I receive payment,
I think it is the right thing to do as the buyer has already paid their part."
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
This thread is a fine testament to why no responsible seller
should EVER leave FB until the transaction is completed.
Any buyer who leaves unwarranted Neuts after a seller has
solved a problem caused by the USPS, should expect to get
NEGd. (Even the POS left was a backhanded-slap that
complained about "slow-shipping;" the package got lost
and had to be replaced by the seller.)
The NEG in this instance was NOT retal; it was the seller's
statement that the "total transaction" was less than
satisfactory.
Additionally, this saga points out that selling tiny-dollar
items in the wild-west of EBAY is just not worth the risk
to sellers' reputations. >>
Basically incorrect in my opinion about leaving feedback. Why do you see sellers with 4 and sometimes 5 figure feedback with almost flawless feedback? Because despite the occasional problems, they properly took care of the situation and satisfied the customer.
The best feedback comment I ever received was from a customer whom their $160 item was lost by UPS. I did send it insured. I simply kept in touch with UPS by phone, e-mailed the buyer approx every other day with how the claim was progressing, then when I got a refund check from UPS I promptly returned the customer's money.
Is there an occasional "madman" on ebay? I guess I've been lucky and haven't gotten that "madman yet. But I'm not going to revamp my whole marketing strategy based on an occasional jackass. I value my repeat customers, and if I ever get a neg, which I haven't yet, not even a neutral yet, I don't think my good customers are going to care in the least. Giving them feedback upon payment is the right thing to do and in my view the smart thing to do - it's good business. Being "paranoid" about every ebay buyer and not leaving feedback right away - in my view is bad business.
Steve
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Almost everybody gets their share, as time passes.
EBAY polices crooked-sellers a little bit. Scamster buyers
are rampant and unpoliced on EBAY. Those buyers are
the primary reason that sellers should NEVER leave FB upon
payment.
Thousands of fake chargebacks are filed each day; anybody
selling on EBAY - and accepting PayPal - is just waiting their
turn to get one.
<< <i>"I guess I've been lucky and haven't gotten that "madman yet."
//////////////////////////////////////////
Almost everybody gets their share, as time passes.
EBAY polices crooked-sellers a little bit. Scamster buyers
are rampant and unpoliced on EBAY. Those buyers are
the primary reason that sellers should NEVER leave FB upon
payment.
Thousands of fake chargebacks are filed each day; anybody
selling on EBAY - and accepting PayPal - is just waiting their
turn to get one. >>
Storm - I don't disagree with your basic premise about all this. But my view is as a seller on ebay, I'm there for one primary reason - to make money. Things such as goodwill, repeat customers, etc in my view helps to maximize my profits. Frankly I don't think sales or profits would be adversely affected in the least from an occasional neg, especially since the seller can respond in the commentary about the buyer's neg.
One rule that ebay should use that would keep sellers from worrying about the madmen leaving blatant negs...if a member is narued on ebay, then all negative feedback left by that member, perhaps positive feedback as well, should be wiped off everyone's feedback...or some sort of system such as this. This would keep the ebay feedback system more current and I think more valid.
Steve
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