Background of High grade vintage

perkdog

Anyone got any info on where the these 9's and 10's came from? Did the majority of these come from finds of unopened material? Back in the early 50's card collecting was popular amongst kids but I doubt that they were taken care of much, hence my question.

gstarling

ask Dick Towle

perkdog

Who is that?

WinPitcher

Perk, towle is a conservatist.

Steve

perkdog

Gotcha

perkdog

I dont know maybe a stupid question I quess, but how about the PSA 10 '52 Mantle or the PSA 9 '54 Ted Williams Wilson franks card? Anyone?

GDM67

There has been a relatively small but still clear and distinct group of serious, adult collectors of sports cards for a long, long time. SCD started well before the early 80's boom, for example.

And anyone who has ever done it knows that leaving cards undisturbed in a properly sized box for 15-20 years will (absent any other outside influence, like water damage or fire) keep them in the precise shape they started in, so it's not that wild an idea. Uncommon, but not impossible.

goose3

I "Made" two PSA10's in the 1961 Topps Baseball out of my dad's boyhood stash that sat in my grandparent's attic for MANY years.

I also made numerous PSA9's in the 1959, 1960, and 1961's!!!!!

Not too mention the hundreds of "8"s.

perkdog

Good for you, I wish I had my fathers cards. Although he always mentions to me that they were "Mint" and perfect ...stacked in shoeboxes with rubber bands..

goose3

I wish I had them too Perkdog...

I merely went thru them, did the subs, and sold them for him.

MorrellMan

Paul
As a collector in the late 50s and early 60s, my experience was similar to a lot of folks I know (and knew then) - we bought packs and played with the cards as pre-teens; often, though, the last year or two of collecting simply meant buying packs out of habit, opening the packs, putting the cards in a shoebox and never touching them again. Those cards pull 9s and 10s from today's graders.
JMHO.

Southerncards

<< <i>Anyone got any info on where the these 9's and 10's came from? Did the majority of these come from finds of unopened material? Back in the early 50's card collecting was popular amongst kids but I doubt that they were taken care of much, hence my question. >>




I'd say those 9's and 10's came from the Midwest! Certainly look like some farm fed country gals! Somehow I think those have been opened before.

SoFLPhillyFan

<< <i>

<< <i>Anyone got any info on where the these 9's and 10's came from? Did the majority of these come from finds of unopened material? Back in the early 50's card collecting was popular amongst kids but I doubt that they were taken care of much, hence my question. >>




I'd say those 9's and 10's came from the Midwest! Certainly look like some farm fed country gals! Somehow I think those have been opened before. >>



The ladies are from FL.

The "9s and 10s"?

Courtesy of DuPont.

jackstraw

<< <i>how about the PSA 10 '52 Mantle >>



I thought I read that one or two of the 3 PSA 10 52 Mantles came from the Rosen find? I may be wrong?

PSARich

Anyone who collected vintage cards in the 1980's - early 90's was able to buy many cards in mint condition at book value or less. Before grading became popular, I built my collection in the best condition possible and have since received 100's of 9's on 1960's baseball and about 40-50 9's on 1950's baseball from PSA. Sometimes a dealer would charge over book on really nice vintage but the point being it was available. Now the value of these cards in graded mint or gem mint condition dwarfs the cost of mint ungraded cards from back then. Now, of course, it is very difficult to find ungraded vintage cards in that kind of condition. But I still seem to find some beauties every year. Two years ago at the National I came across a dealer who had a book of about 30 plastic pages filled with 1957-1959 Topps baseball at $2.00 each. I bought about 40 of them and just last month received 25 of them back from PSA from their monthly special. Got four 9's, eighteen 8's, and three 7's.

RipublicaninMass

I know of a dealer who ripped a few packs from Rosen, got a Mantle and Robinson which were sold to a private colelctor back in 1990 or so. They were graded by PSA years afterwards. The MAntle was 10 and Robinson was 9. not too bad!

cardbender

<< <i>I dont know maybe a stupid question I quess, but how about the PSA 10 '52 Mantle or the PSA 9 '54 Ted Williams Wilson franks card? Anyone? >>




I literally held that '54 Wilson Weiners Williams in my hand before it was sold off and graded. It was owned for many years by an old-time collector/dealer here in Wisconsin. He told me he got that complete Wilson Weiners set back in the mid 1970's. He got it in a trade. So he owned it for about 30 years before it was graded. His set yielded a lot of PSA 9's too like the Hodges card among a few others.

Funny thing is, when I saw his set, it was stored in a picture album with corner inserts. So you couldn't actually check out the corners condition or the backs of the cards for any stains. He bought it like that and never removed it from their mounted sheets. The cards looked like reprints, they were so nice and clean. I cannot imagine buying a set mounted in sheets where the corners were completely covered from viewing. But back in the 1970's it was maybe not that big a deal. He might have had maybe $100 into it.

This guy sold out his entire collection through Mastro. He had some tremendous stuff. Complete Baseball and Football set runs. Lot's of regional sets in high grade too like the Wilsons. His '69 Supers set was the nicest I've ever seen. I'm sure it was loaded with 9's and 10's. I remember looking through it and thinking that there were only three cards in the entire set he would need to upgrade to have a complete 'mint or better' set. His collection would have been a buy of a lifetime for any collector. But this guy wanted to deal with a top auction company only. Who could blame him? Unfortunately for the consignor, Mastro lumped his nice Football sets in one lot and he got short changed on them. He did extremely well with his Baseball however to more than make up for the weak FB results.

So that's just one collector who had a accummalated a vast high grade collection over the 1960's and 1970's that finally decided to liquidate in 2001. So the high grade stuff is still out there, you just have to find it and convince the owner to sell it to you!

RipublicaninMass

<< <i> So the high grade stuff is still out there, you just have to find it and convince the owner to sell it to you! >>



Bender...


EXTREMELY simple in theory!!!!!

HECK55

I had heard that one of the very early PSA 10 (can't remember if it was Mantle or Mays) in the 52 or 53 Topps set was found in book so it had been sandwiched between pages and protected for many years. This is only one card and not sure of the validity of the story but I heard it maybe 7 - 8 years ago.
I just purchased a 1964 Topps Giants set in pages from a collector that was kind of local to me (110 miles away) - he had a card/coin store for years and had bought this set at a big show years ago. I just went yesterday and picked it up from him and it looks fantastic. I had also bought some others from his 58 set that really look nice. He said on his sets he would check anything that was brought into the store to sell and upgrade his sets when he got some nicer cards then put his out in the cases to sell so a lot of his stuff was pretty nice.

Rick

koby

A lot of trimming took place in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

perkdog

Great stories and info, thanks for the input. Anymore stories out there? Id love to hear them. Thanks

IndianaJones

The background of high grade vintage cards is really a good topic. I have mused about it often. I dare say 95% or more of these cards came from finds that occurred as the hobby evolved in the 1970's. You must remember, as others have discussed, a collector prior to the advent of the hobby had very few ways to preserve his cards. True, there were kids who abused their cards, or had "fun" with them. I have several cards of the '50's with the player's team crossed out in ink, and his new team written in. Also, I distinctly recall receiving a childhood collection of a neighbor boy in the late '60's with a '61 Mickey Mantle that had a bb-gun hole above Mickey's head. Rubberband use was not abuse to us, but necessary. I've seen a large stack of cards fall out of its "brick" because it was not carefully-handled. True, some kids but what seemed like a whole package or rubberbands on their cards. They were regarded as strange. Again, stop and consider, what else did we have except a few well-placed rubberbands and a nice shoe box, or even a cigar box? I well recall being envious of a classmate who brought his '66's to school in a metal change box. That looked good and sturdy to me. Later, as I began to get involved with the emerging hobby in the early '70's, I visited a couple of very-advanced collectors. One was Rich Egan, who had his Topps sets all placed in a large metal file, with a set on each side. There were a lot of drawers, and it seemed perfect to me. The cards were on their sides, with lots of space between them. The huge file was in an inner room of his collecting room. I remember gently opening the drawer with his complete set of 1952 Topps. I knew clean cardboard when I saw it, and I could tell they looked brand-new, though 20-22 years old at the time. Later, I was privileged to be invited to Lionel Carter's home. All of his major sets were in albums with black art corners. They were neatly and thoughtfully arranged. Mr. Carter was even more fanatical than I about condition. His cards were usually dead-center, perfect picture, and so on. Mounting one's cards in albums was one of the premier ways of preserving and displaying one's prized cards. I can imagine a few of your thoughts, but this was 1973. The "father" of our hobby, Jeff Burdick, when he was mounting his vast collection for the Metropolitan Museum of Modern Art, actually PASTED his cards into albums for permanent display, and I'm sure to deter any crook from swiping any of them. That was one case where Lionel Carter disagreed with Mr. Burdick, as he did not like the idea of cards being pasted into albums. I'm sure we'd all concur. Again, I well recall an album for cards put out by General Foods to place one's collection of Post Cereal and Jello cards. There were no die cuts slots to insert the cards. Nah---ya just pasted 'em in. A junior high buddy gave me his childhood collection of Post/Jello. I especially wanted them because I had very, very few of the scarce 1962 Jello, which it later came out that it was technically a regional only sold in the Chicago and Milwaukee areas. General Foods, a Chicago-based company, probably wanted to try them out somewhere close, so they could easily tell if there was a market for their baseball cards on both Post Cereal and Jello products. Anyway, my buddy had those cards so pasted in that they could hardly be removed. He had the Life Mickey Mantle pasted on top of a Post Mickey! As you can imagine, I was pretty frustrated. But, I was able to salvage close to 20 '62 Jellos, all with major back damage, and typical poor cut due to his 7-year-old fine motor skills. I must go, but I would like to convey a few more methods of storing and preserving cards way back when. Some will make you laugh. Some will make you cringe, and you'd better be sitting down when you read it. Take care guys. ---Indiana Jones

perkdog

Thanks Indiana, I appreaciate your input.

TWINRON

Perkdog-- You need to appraise the forum readers that these two gals are "tight ends" on the Florida State University football team.

Ron-- Tallahassee, Fl Seminole

perkdog

<< <i>Perkdog-- You need to appraise the forum readers that these two gals are "tight ends" on the Florida State University football team.

Ron-- Tallahassee, Fl Seminole >>




Unfortunately I would prefer that but I think they are "wide receivers" though......

Arsenal83

more specifically, SLOT receivers.

Griffins

Here's a good read
Fogel Part 1
Fogel Part2

Stingray

How many 9s or 10s are still in collectors hands that are from the old school and do not like grading??

Boopotts

<< <i>How many 9s or 10s are still in collectors hands that are from the old school and do not like grading?? >>




I don't know for sure, but my feeling is that there are quite a few still out there. I know of some fantastic raw collections that will yield some exceptional grades once the cards find their way back into the hobby, and I'm sure there are hundreds upon hundreds out there that none of us have ever seen or heard of.

jamesgotpoorman

There are plently of old ladies that have SHOE boxes from their sons just hanging out in attics.