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Three FIRST STRIKES and you’re out?
Griv
Posts: 2,804 ✭
So can anyone please tell me what is up with the FIRST STRIKE (FS) program and the PCGS Registry? FSs really do sound like a nice way to differentiate a select group of bullion coins out of the millions that are minted, but what does it really mean for collectors and investors?
Qualifying FS silver eagles have been found as far back as 1991 but yet there isn’t any recognition within the Registry for these early FS coins. Ambiguous application of FS rules allow the inclusion of the FIRST STRIKE 2005 MS eagles but exclude the 2005 PR FS eagles even though PCGS FS labels were issued for that year. Now the 2006-W UNC gold eagles have been excluded from FS status but the 2006-W UNC platinum SOL eagles did get FS status.
Is it just me or is the FIRST STRIKE Program more confusing than death or paying taxes? Consistency would be a great start, but that is just my humble opinion. It’s no wonder that the PCGS Registry has had pitiful participation in the FIRST STRIKE Program. With rules that seem too much like a Rubik’s cube, the FS Program seems to be adrift and without direction. If it is just a marketing ploy then why not just eliminate it from the Registry so serious collectors are not sidetracked by coin series that are not really supported by the PCGS Registry. If PCGS really and truly believes in the FS Program, then let it show.
Qualifying FS silver eagles have been found as far back as 1991 but yet there isn’t any recognition within the Registry for these early FS coins. Ambiguous application of FS rules allow the inclusion of the FIRST STRIKE 2005 MS eagles but exclude the 2005 PR FS eagles even though PCGS FS labels were issued for that year. Now the 2006-W UNC gold eagles have been excluded from FS status but the 2006-W UNC platinum SOL eagles did get FS status.
Is it just me or is the FIRST STRIKE Program more confusing than death or paying taxes? Consistency would be a great start, but that is just my humble opinion. It’s no wonder that the PCGS Registry has had pitiful participation in the FIRST STRIKE Program. With rules that seem too much like a Rubik’s cube, the FS Program seems to be adrift and without direction. If it is just a marketing ploy then why not just eliminate it from the Registry so serious collectors are not sidetracked by coin series that are not really supported by the PCGS Registry. If PCGS really and truly believes in the FS Program, then let it show.
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With posts like this one you are sure to fit in nicely.
Here is my answer for you:
We are still working on the whole B.S. vs. S.F. scandal.
Have a great W/E and agin welcome to the boards.
Later, Paul.
P.S. Here you go Dan60, my first yellow ribbon!
Later, Paul.
<< <i>
Here is my answer for you:
We are still working on the whole B.S. vs. S.F. scandal.
Have a great W/E and agin welcome to the boards.
Later, Paul. >>
So I read Mitch's thread on the Satin Finish controversy which I admit initially didn't affect me as I have not collected any of the SQ unc issues but it seems as this has bled into the Sacagaweas with the same or if not, a very similar situation.
But what I was hoping to hear are some thoughts on the FIRST STRIKE Program and how can there be any accountability within the PCGS Registry for this chaotic issue. The PCGS Population Report no longer identifies FS versus non-FS numbers so if you were to ask me, the whole FS Program is on the verge of being a non-issue. Does a FS coin REALLY have any more value then a coin that was minted on the 32nd day? I personally have had zero influence with PCGS on issues regarding FS inconsistencies but I am told by PCGS that they have spoken with MANY people about these issues before making these decisions. My question to them was, "Was it any of the 5 or 6 people who have FS Registry sets?" Uh, no.
<< <i>So I read Mitch's thread on the Satin Finish controversy which I admit initially didn't affect me as I have not collected any of the SQ unc issues but it seems as this has bled into the Sacagaweas with the same or if not, a very similar situation.
But what I was hoping to hear are some thoughts on the FIRST STRIKE Program and how can there be any accountability within the PCGS Registry for this chaotic issue. The PCGS Population Report no longer identifies FS versus non-FS numbers so if you were to ask me, the whole FS Program is on the verge of being a non-issue. Does a FS coin REALLY have any more value then a coin that was minted on the 32nd day? I personally have had zero influence with PCGS on issues regarding FS inconsistencies but I am told by PCGS that they have spoken with MANY people about these issues before making these decisions. My question to them was, "Was it any of the 5 or 6 people who have FS Registry sets?" Uh, no. >>
My first question to the entire "First Strike" problem is this:
Are the TPG's telling me that a coin is a first strike when its released before 1/31 of that year or is it a first strike off of a particular set of dies? I would think that there would be a problem with owning a MS70 in a non-FS holder and the same identical coin in a MS69 FS holder. The point being that usually you obtain a better struck coin in the "Early die state" which would give you a 70 and not a 69. This is 1 of many issues I have with it.
Also some of these collectors are paying moon money for coins with very low pops in MS69 that reside in FS holders, that would usually be very cheap. I don't get it.
THEY ARE THE SAME FREAKIN COIN PEOPLE. YOU ARE BUYING A PIECE OF PAPER AND NOT THE COIN. Sorry didn't mean to yell.
As far as the registry, I would be pissed if I was chasing the FS holders and they didn't list them before 2005. What about giving them a different weight since they are suppose to be so special. Why should joe blow coin with a pop of 25,000 in MS69 get the same weight as the pop 4/0 in MS69 in the special FS holder?
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
<< <i>My first question to the entire "First Strike" problem is this:
Are the TPG's telling me that a coin is a first strike when its released before 1/31 of that year or is it a first strike off of a particular set of dies? I would think that there would be a problem with owning a MS70 in a non-FS holder and the same identical coin in a MS69 FS holder. The point being that usually you obtain a better struck coin in the "Early die state" which would give you a 70 and not a 69. This is 1 of many issues I have with it.
Also some of these collectors are paying moon money for coins with very low pops in MS69 that reside in FS holders, that would usually be very cheap. I don't get it.
THEY ARE THE SAME FREAKIN COIN PEOPLE. YOU ARE BUYING A PIECE OF PAPER AND NOT THE COIN. Sorry didn't mean to yell.
As far as the registry, I would be pissed if I was chasing the FS holders and they didn't list them before 2005. What about giving them a different weight since they are suppose to be so special. Why should joe blow coin with a pop of 25,000 in MS69 get the same weight as the pop 4/0 in MS69 in the special FS holder?
Later, Paul. >>
Paul, I think you summed up most of my frustration. Pre-2005 MS69 FIRST STRIKE silver eagles starting popping up and anyone who bought into them thinking they would be a part of the Registry paid big bucks only to see them now go for less than $50 on eBay. Big mistake. I understand there was to be a seperate Registry Set but after a couple of years of holding my breath, nothing but carbon dioxide poisoning.
Also the FS Program assumes that dies are not replaced over the course of the minting process. I don't see any more MS/PR70s in the FS graded coins as the non-FS. Another oddness to the Registry is that a FS coin can be substituted for a non-FS in any set except the FS sets which require you to have a non-FS coin for the non-FS slot. It seems to me that since you can't send a non-FS coin in to be turned into a FS coin but you can send a FS coin in to be changed to a non-FS coin, the FS coins should ALWAYS substitute for non-FS coins or collectors will be forced to be 50% less committed to the FS Program by virtue of this requirement. Does this make sense or have I had too many cups of java???
So the Mint doesn't use a brand new never before used die in july? Is that what the whole FS label is telling me?
The registry is great, but like everything, need some work. I'm sure that the whole Set Registry problem with alot of series will all work themselves out sooner or later.
At least I hope so.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Sorry I could not resist but the registery and the strike of coins is a mess and they just flat out don't want fix it.
So all I can say is collect what you like and put it in what ever set they will go into.
The registery is a great inventory managment tool and I use it but as for the ranking of the sets?