Buying back or is it still shilling?
EagleEyeKid
Posts: 4,496 ✭✭
A friend of mine presented this to me and I wanted to get your opinions on this. Lately, he's been selling on ebay and starts everything within the .99 - 9.99 range. As the days progress towards his 7th day ....let's say he has 5 hours left; he would then put some of his own items into his snipe. He has a separate account for buying. He insists that this isn't shilling, but mainly to protect his investment. He has won some of his own items at the last second. Both accounts have the same name and address and everything; so if Ebay was to check it out, they would see it's the same person and he said he has nothing to hide. He says there is no shilling presented within the 7 day duration ahead of time. Although I do see his point; is this a good idea?
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If he's worried about "protecting his investment" he should use a reserve or sell at fixed price.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
what if someone else snipes his auction with a huge price after he put his own snipe in? It becomes flat out, blatant shilling.
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Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item’s price or apparent desirability, or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller’s item information not available to the general Community. Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay.
Because family members, roommates and employees of sellers have a level of access to item information which is not available to the general Community, they are not permitted to bid on items offered by the seller – even if their sole intent is to purchase the item. Family members, roommates or employees may purchase items from a seller without violating this policy simply by using purchase options – such as Buy It Now – which do not involve bidding.
eBay strongly encourages sellers with employees to ensure that their employees are aware of this policy and the possible consequences of violation.
Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:
Listing cancellation
Limits on account privileges
Account suspension
Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings
Loss of PowerSeller status
Referral to Law Enforcement
Spend a few minutes taking eBay's tutorial on Shill bidding.
If you believe that another member is artificially raising the price or desirability of an item by shill bidding please report it to eBay. Please be sure to provide the user IDs and the item numbers in question.
The only way he has gotten away with this shilling... is because no one has reported him to eBay.
It will catch up with him.
does he pay the final value fees? or does he claim the buyer and 'he' have decided not to finish the sale?
anyway you look at it it is a slimy practice.
Steve
That is impossible, or I am missing something.
Did you mean both accounts are registered in the same name?
Steve
It's also against the law and some people have ended up in court.
More reading on Shill Bidding
The old " A friend of mine " story lol
Im sure it's just a friend of yours but like the others said it's not right
Dave
mike
He does pay for the final value fee.
I agree with everyone's answer.
<< <i>Auction houses do it. >>
I can believe it!
If caught, the person will be NARUd fast.
Use a reserve, or start the auction at a price that
is satisfactory as the final sale price. Or, use BIN.
<< <i>Auction houses do it. >>
They do and it still doesn't make it alright.
Say NO to shill bidding.
I too have a tightwad friend that occasionaly will email me and
ask me to pump up his 99 cent auctions to like $5. I just delete his
emails and ignore him. He's just a tightwad that's trying to save himself the extra 20 cents it costs to start listings at the 40 cent level as oppsoed to the starting point of 99 cents which cost 20 cents to run. It's just petty.
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Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
So if I have a bid on one of his items and he out bids me and wins. You stated it's not shill????
Wrong!
It's shilling!
I agree 100%. Your friend is no better than any other scammer out there.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The word "shill" is probably related to "shillaber", a word of obscure early-20th century origin with the same meaning.
Shilling is illegal in many circumstances and in many jurisdictions because of the frequently fraudulent and damaging character of their actions. However, if a shill does not place uninformed parties at a risk of loss, but merely generates “buzz,” the shill's actions may be legal. For example, a person planted in an audience to laugh and applaud when appropriate, see "claque", or to participate in on-stage activities as a "random member of the audience", is a type of legal shill.
A common shilling tactic is to have two shills. The first is a young child (or some other sympathetic character) who offers a low bid for a moderately-priced item. Other auction participants will be reluctant to outbid him. The second shill is an ill-mannered and usually overweight man who does just that—he outbids the kid, who starts crying. In theory, this should provoke other auction participants to outbid the man solely for the sake of beating him; by bidding well beyond the item's value, he can artificially increase prices.
This practice is illegal in virtually all jurisdictions
If he's worried about "protecting his investment" he should use a reserve or sell at fixed price.
Absolutely. And what happens if his "snipe" doesn't win the auction but just bumps up the high bidder? Does he expect full payment or sell at the "before snipe" price? I'm sure he sends the invoice with nary a word and that is dishonest and stealing.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
/////////////////////////////////
Yup.
<< <i>It's technically not a shill if he actually wins his own auction since nobody is out any money other than the seller but still unethical as already stated.
So if I have a bid on one of his items and he out bids me and wins. You stated it's not shill????
Wrong!
It's shilling! >>
I've always viewed shilling as a prictice that costs others money but we're splitting hairs here. We all agree the practice described in the original post is clearly unethical. It is the equivalent of having an item end at a given price then refusing to sell the item to the highest bidder. It destoys the integrity of the seller and auction house. That said, I'll take a non-performing seller over a card trimmer or liberal grader any day of the week. The latter costs me actual money. I only lose potential gains with the former.
Now, I don't think protecting your investment is wrong. Just because it is in an auction doesn't mean you HAVE to sell it. Contract law states that it isn't until the auction closes that a sale takes place. I am sure everyone of us has sold something for a price where we would have willingly and happily bought it back for that price. And what is wrong with that. Just because you are the seller doesn't mean you can't also be a buyer. Plus who says it is wrong, ebay? Like they are ethical. Who came up with the term shill bidding anyways? Just because ebay says it is wrong doesn't mean it actually is.
It is YOUR item to sell, not ebay's. Shouldn't YOU decide at what price you want to sell it.
<< <i>It is YOUR item to sell, not ebay's. Shouldn't YOU decide at what price you want to sell it >>
That is why they have the "Reserve" feature.
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You can't be that naive right?? If he bumps his own card and sells it....the other high bidder was robbed..straight up!!
If he bids on his own card and wins it....IF there was ANY bid on that card lower than his....the other bidder was also robbed..straight up!!
If he starts an auction at 99 cents...he is leagally obligated to sell it for 99 cents if it gets a bid!! No arguments....
If I bid $1.50 on it and it's a $20 card...and would have been the high bidder...if he bumped it any higher and won it back himself....then he robbed me
Either side of the coin he's screwing everyone!
I've always viewed shilling as a prictice that costs others money but we're splitting hairs here.
You're correct.....again...if he makes more by bumping his own cards...the buyer pays more. If someone doesn't get the card that he won back...they are out a potential gain..
Shilling costs EVERYONE
Now, I don't think protecting your investment is wrong. Just because it is in an auction doesn't mean you HAVE to sell it. Contract law states that it isn't until the auction closes that a sale takes place. I am sure everyone of us has sold something for a price where we would have willingly and happily bought it back for that price. And what is wrong with that. Just because you are the seller doesn't mean you can't also be a buyer. Plus who says it is wrong, ebay? Like they are ethical. Who came up with the term shill bidding anyways? Just because ebay says it is wrong doesn't mean it actually is.
It is YOUR item to sell, not ebay's. Shouldn't YOU decide at what price you want to sell it.
If the sellers wants to "protect" his investment, he should start the item off at a price he's comfortable accepting or put a reserve on it. To list an item and call it a "no reserve" auction with the intention of sniping the auction at the very end of the listing to to either a) win back the item or b) drive the price up so the high bidder gets screwed is flat out wrong and stealing. I don't know why this concept is so difficult to comprehend for some people.
Edit: Here's another novel thought: If the auction price is not at the level the seller is willing to accept, then why not just cancel all bids and cancel the auction before its conclusion? You know why, because the "sniper" is not hoping he wins the auction with his snipe, he's just hoping to steal money from the high bidder by driving the price up dishonestly.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
steve
steve
I'd like to think you're right steve, but I'm not so sure.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> Grote I think some here are playing stupid. Everyone knows it is wrong.
steve
I'd like to think you're right steve, but I'm not so sure. >>
Unfortunately,
The seller/buyer leave FB for each other. In this case,
both seller/buyer are the same person.
Time for the Animal House cough.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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