Tim Hardaway...
Ladder7
Posts: 1,221 ✭
in Sports Talk
Is it me, or have we gotten past this issue ages ago?.. Tim the Righteous, please take your mountain of money and go back in your hole.
*$.02 From just another, less hateful heterosexual.
*$.02 From just another, less hateful heterosexual.
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February 15, 2007
MIAMI (AP) -- Retired Miami Heat guard Tim Hardaway said Wednesday that he hates gay people, but later said he regretted the remarks.
"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known. I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people," he said while a guest on Sports Talk 790 The Ticket. "I'm homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States."
The discussion was sparked by last week's announcement that retired NBA center John Amaechi is gay.
The host asked Hardaway how he would interact with a gay teammate.
"First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team. And second of all, if he was on my team, I would, you know, really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that is right. I don't think he should be in the locker room while we are in the locker room."
If he did find out that a teammate was gay, Hardaway said he would ask for the player to be removed from the team.
"Something has to give," Hardaway said. "If you have 12 other ballplayers in your locker room that's upset and can't concentrate and always worried about him in the locker room or on the court or whatever, it's going to be hard for your teammates to win and accept him as a teammate."
Amaechi also detailed his life, in his autobiography "Man in the Middle," which was released Wednesday. He hoped his coming out would be a catalyst for intelligent discourse.
"I'm actually tempted to laugh," Amaechi told The Miami Herald. "Finally, someone who is honest. It is ridiculous, absurd, petty, bigoted and shows a lack of empathy that is gargantuan and unfathomable. But it is honest. And it illustrates the problem better than any of the fuzzy language other people have used so far."
Hardaway later apologized for the remarks during a telephone interview with Fox affiliate WSVN in Miami.
"Yes, I regret it. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said I hate gay people or anything like that," he said. "That was my mistake."
Hardaway has reportedly been removed from further league-related appearances.
"It is inappropriate for him to be representing us given the disparity between his views and ours," NBA commissioner David Stern said in a statement to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
Mike Greenberg on Mike and Mike this morning said it best- Did anyone wake up yesterday and ask what Tim Hardaway thinks of gay people??
The fact is- there are homosexual athletes- and most (all in the major sports) are in the closet. Lebron came out and said he would rather know because of a "TRUST" issue...Mark Cuban said a gay athlete would make tons of money, and Tim Hardaway said he didnt like it and "Hates gay people"- because one persons opinion isn't "Politicially correct" doesnt mean he is "Righteous" and should go back to the hole with his $$ -because you dont agree with what he says doesnt mean he shouldnt say it
I am not agreeing with his comments at all, just don't think the man should be burned at the stake because of it-
I still say the real issue in this whole Amechi (no idea how to spell it- if he was any good when he played I would know) is the guy says he's gay, writes a book, and is going to make millions- why do you think he came out with it? Because it made him feel good or because the money made him feel good?? just my .02
I could care less about peoples opinions on homosexuality, I'm not gay so I don't care.
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<< <i>I wonder if they would make the Mens locker rooms seperate in a sport if there was a large portion of homosexuals in that league. My reason being is isnt the sexual feelings and what not the reason for separating men and womens locker rooms? So wouldnt those feelings be prevalent in a mixed homo/heterosexual locker room? Its easy to see why some would not be easy with having to share a locker room with someone who could be lusting over them. I want to end this post by saying I am playing devil's advocate and just bringing up a hypothetical situation. >>
Internationally, a lot of bathrooms and lockerrooms are co-ed. Which, is quite odd to me. But I see where you're arguement has validity, good point.
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Not that there's anything wrong with that.......
Hardaway should have kept his opinions to himself and obviously will deservedly suffer detriment for his public comments. However, one can not deny the truth of how he would be treated if he publicly professed hate for groups that are "politically correct" to hate.
<< <i>Tim Hardaway is my new favorite former NBA player! He simply said what we all used to say before NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX brainwashed us! >>
??
<< <i>
<< <i>Tim Hardaway is my new favorite former NBA player! He simply said what we all used to say before NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX brainwashed us! >>
?? >>
What, you don't understand what I said or you weren't alive 25 years ago? Everyone today is afraid of being labeled intolerant! What's wrong with being intolerant of sin?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Tim Hardaway is my new favorite former NBA player! He simply said what we all used to say before NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX brainwashed us! >>
?? >>
What, you don't understand what I said or you weren't alive 25 years ago? Everyone today is afraid of being labeled intolerant! What's wrong with being intolerant of sin? >>
This is so silly on so many different levels that I'm not sure where to start. But, I'll take a flyer here and assume you're operating from some kind of Judeo-Christian moral structure, in which I would humbly counter that intolerance of any sort is, generally speaking, frowned upon by those who consider themselves serious followers of the teachings of Christ.
On a more secular level, the primary problem with being intolerant of 'sin' is that it's not of your business what two consenting adults choose to do either with or to each others' bodies.
<< <i>If instead of Hardaway saying that he hates "gays" he said that he hates "Christians", or hates "WASPs", or hates "conservative white males between 35 and 60 years of age" he would probably be lauded, touted, applauded and put on cable and network news shows, Leno, Letterman and SNL for positive and glowing interviews by the same persons and organizations who are condemning him now.
Hardaway should have kept his opinions to himself and obviously will deservedly suffer detriment for his public comments. However, one can not deny the truth of how he would be treated if he publicly professed hate for groups that are "politically correct" to hate. >>
I think it's terribly unlikely that this illustrative little scenario you've so graciously constructed for us would have had any resemblance to the national reaction Tim Hardaway would have received if he had said he 'hates white people', or anything of the sort.
I hate gay people
to
I hate n*&&&s
Come on now people. That's not the same thing and you know it.
"On a more secular level, the primary problem with being intolerant of 'sin' is that it's not of your business what two consenting adults choose to do either with or to each others' bodies"
It is my business if the guy next to me is looking at me in any way other than a teammate on the organization. Just like theres no reason for a guy to come "out" and admit he's gay, rather than a guy come out and admit he's heterosexual. Truth is, this bum Amanechi came out TO SELL HIS BOOK. ALL THESE INTERVIEWS ARE SIMPLY HIS PROMOTIONAL TOUR. Nothing else. If he wanted to make a difference, he would've come out in his playing days. Oh wait a minute, that's right he was never a noteworthy contributor in his career. He made a good business move in waiting until he couldn't play anymore.
PEOPLE, to come out of the closet....Why'd he need to write a book about it? That's right, to make money.
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<< <i>How are people comparing saying...
I hate gay people
to
I hate n*&&&s
Come on now people. That's not the same thing and you know it.
"On a more secular level, the primary problem with being intolerant of 'sin' is that it's not of your business what two consenting adults choose to do either with or to each others' bodies"
It is my business if the guy next to me is looking at me in any way other than a teammate on the organization. Just like theres no reason for a guy to come "out" and admit he's gay, rather than a guy come out and admit he's heterosexual. Truth is, this bum Amanechi came out TO SELL HIS BOOK. ALL THESE INTERVIEWS ARE SIMPLY HIS PROMOTIONAL TOUR. Nothing else. If he wanted to make a difference, he would've come out in his playing days. Oh wait a minute, that's right he was never a noteworthy contributor in his career. He made a good business move in waiting until he couldn't play anymore.
PEOPLE, to come out of the closet....Why'd he need to write a book about it? That's right, to make money. >>
God I love these boards. What kind of cave is it that you people crawl out of every night? Do they actually run electricity-- much less provide Internet access- in those cliff dwellings you call home?
Is it your business if a man grabs you off the street, throws you in the back of a van and cornholes you at the next red light? Yes. Is if your business develops an insatiable lust for your body and begins mailing you hand crafted post cards of two Labradors in coitus with the text 'You and me, at the park, 7 p.m Friday'? Again, yes. But then-- and here's the kicker-- this would all be your business no matter if it was a man or a woman doing these things.
So a man eyes up your tool in the shower. Big deal. Who's been hurt? You haven't. If you feel 'wronged' or 'violated' in some way, or otherwise feel commodified, then I sincerely hope you're not ogling over the next 42 DD you see at the swimming pool. And as for all this noise about the NBA player who just came out, let's not forget that Tim Hardaway's remarks extended far beyond whatever feelings he has for gays in the NBA. Whatever this gay basketball player's motives are for coming out and writing this book are completely beside the point. Even if he's a manipulative weasel that doesn't in any way inform the notion that 'homosexuality is sin'.
<< <i>Just so you know, Martina Navratilova is respected. She came out DURING her career and continued to compete on a very high level. This guy Amanechi? Wrote a book about what? His 5 seasons in the NBA or his 6.2 PPG average? He wrote a book to MAKE MONEY. Don't get it confused people. >>
I think it's a lot different for women than for men to "come out" - I really don't think many people care if a woman is a lesbian or not. You really never see any "I hate lesbians" comments.
<< <i>
<< <i>How are people comparing saying...
I hate gay people
to
I hate n*&&&s
Come on now people. That's not the same thing and you know it.
"On a more secular level, the primary problem with being intolerant of 'sin' is that it's not of your business what two consenting adults choose to do either with or to each others' bodies"
It is my business if the guy next to me is looking at me in any way other than a teammate on the organization. Just like theres no reason for a guy to come "out" and admit he's gay, rather than a guy come out and admit he's heterosexual. Truth is, this bum Amanechi came out TO SELL HIS BOOK. ALL THESE INTERVIEWS ARE SIMPLY HIS PROMOTIONAL TOUR. Nothing else. If he wanted to make a difference, he would've come out in his playing days. Oh wait a minute, that's right he was never a noteworthy contributor in his career. He made a good business move in waiting until he couldn't play anymore.
PEOPLE, to come out of the closet....Why'd he need to write a book about it? That's right, to make money. >>
God I love these boards. What kind of cave is it that you people crawl out of every night? Do they actually run electricity-- much less provide Internet access- in those cliff dwellings you call home?
Is it your business if a man grabs you off the street, throws you in the back of a van and cornholes you at the next red light? Yes. Is if your business develops an insatiable lust for your body and begins mailing you hand crafted post cards of two Labradors in coitus with the text 'You and me, at the park, 7 p.m Friday'? Again, yes. But then-- and here's the kicker-- this would all be your business no matter if it was a man or a woman doing these things.
So a man eyes up your tool in the shower. Big deal. Who's been hurt? You haven't. If you feel 'wronged' or 'violated' in some way, or otherwise feel commodified, then I sincerely hope you're not ogling over the next 42 DD you see at the swimming pool. And as for all this noise about the NBA player who just came out, let's not forget that Tim Hardaway's remarks extended far beyond whatever feelings he has for gays in the NBA. Whatever this gay basketball player's motives are for coming out and writing this book are completely beside the point. Even if he's a manipulative weasel that doesn't in any way inform the notion that 'homosexuality is sin'. >>
Damn, Boo. That made me laugh.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Tim Hardaway is my new favorite former NBA player! He simply said what we all used to say before NBC, ABC, CBS, and FOX brainwashed us! >>
?? >>
What, you don't understand what I said or you weren't alive 25 years ago? Everyone today is afraid of being labeled intolerant! What's wrong with being intolerant of sin? >>
This is so silly on so many different levels that I'm not sure where to start. But, I'll take a flyer here and assume you're operating from some kind of Judeo-Christian moral structure, in which I would humbly counter that intolerance of any sort is, generally speaking, frowned upon by those who consider themselves serious followers of the teachings of Christ.
On a more secular level, the primary problem with being intolerant of 'sin' is that it's not of your business what two consenting adults choose to do either with or to each others' bodies. >>
It was a set-up question my friend, you didn't need to take a flyer on that one.
If they ever outlaw this ogling, damit I'm going to do it anyway!
-
<< <i>
<< <i>Just so you know, Martina Navratilova is respected. She came out DURING her career and continued to compete on a very high level. This guy Amanechi? Wrote a book about what? His 5 seasons in the NBA or his 6.2 PPG average? He wrote a book to MAKE MONEY. Don't get it confused people. >>
I think it's a lot different for women than for men to "come out" - I really don't think many people care if a woman is a lesbian or not. You really never see any "I hate lesbians" comments. >>
As Bill Mahar pointed out, the key difference is that lesbian sex is actually kind of-- well, hot-- while gay sex just seems kind of yucky.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Just so you know, Martina Navratilova is respected. She came out DURING her career and continued to compete on a very high level. This guy Amanechi? Wrote a book about what? His 5 seasons in the NBA or his 6.2 PPG average? He wrote a book to MAKE MONEY. Don't get it confused people. >>
I think it's a lot different for women than for men to "come out" - I really don't think many people care if a woman is a lesbian or not. You really never see any "I hate lesbians" comments. >>
As Bill Mahar pointed out, the key difference is that lesbian sex is actually kind of-- well, hot-- while gay sex just seems kind of yucky. >>
True that Boo, True that.
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Please don't take sustenance that hating gays is far different than hating blacks.
As for Amaechi,(a quick Google search told me however to spell his name) I think the reason for outing himself is twofold. Obviously to make some money and sell his book. And more importantly, to make guys like Tim Hardaway as well as many of you, squirm a little bit. That is the part that interests me.
As to the arguement of "I wouldn't want him checking me out," I would say, don't be that vain. If that is what you are concerned about, maybe you should change in a room full of lesbians. They won't be checking you out. Would that make you uncomfortable?
I just think its a shame that a guy comes and says something that people are uncomfortable with and people try to write it off as that he was a scrub, or that he's just in it for money. The fact is that there are gay men in pro sports. Deal with it. If they help the team who the fcuk cares if they are gay, white, black, yellow, red, or purple.
Judge a man on his merits, not if he IS or DOES something that differs from you.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Just so you know, Martina Navratilova is respected. She came out DURING her career and continued to compete on a very high level. This guy Amanechi? Wrote a book about what? His 5 seasons in the NBA or his 6.2 PPG average? He wrote a book to MAKE MONEY. Don't get it confused people. >>
I think it's a lot different for women than for men to "come out" - I really don't think many people care if a woman is a lesbian or not. You really never see any "I hate lesbians" comments. >>
I hate that butch lesbian, Rosie O'Donnell!
I do not hate gay people, nor do I like gay people. If you want to take a swan dive into some goat urine infected peanut butter, be my guest, just don't splash on me! There is a reason Mother Nature made men and women, the sole purpose of sex is to reproduce!
Tim Hardaway spoke his mind, he has a right as a citizen of this country to speak his mind. You have a right as a citizen of this country to either agree or disagree with his spoken word, you also have the right to like him or hate him!
<< <i><<< ogling over the next 42 DD you see at the swimming pool. >>>- >>
I do not think there are too many 42 DD women hanging out at the swimming pool trying to "hide" anything!
Anyways, 42 DDs seem kinda fat to me, my fiancee has 34 DDs, and those are a handful!
<< <i>This is so silly on so many different levels that I'm not sure where to start. But, I'll take a flyer here and assume you're operating from some kind of Judeo-Christian moral structure, in which I would humbly counter that intolerance of any sort is, generally speaking, frowned upon by those who consider themselves serious followers of the teachings of Christ. >>
I agree. I consider myself a Christian and I think it's wrong what he said. Nobody should "hate" anybody else, for any reason. I believe in hate the sin, love the sinner.
Tim, u own various car washes here in my South Florida.
Could you kindly put up large signs, by your car washes that say,
"Heterosexuals only pleeeze! I hate homos!
Thanks,
Tim Hardaway, Owner".
This way u can put your "big mouth were your money is" !!
rd
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Joe
Any person who is plays 5 years, 1 year or less [i.e., under a 10 day contract] in the NBA, even if that person is always the 10th-13th player on the roster is a FREAKING STUD OF AN ATHLETE. Anyone who says otherwise simply does not have a clue what they are talking about.
While their stats and playing time in the NBA may not be very great [due to having to compete against LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, etc.], I suggest that you get off of the couch and play pick up basketball for two hours with someone like Amanechi. You will be humbled and embarassed by the experience.
I played high school and small college basketball in the 70's. Even back then the talent level at the small college level was amazing. During my college years I played year round and in the off season played pick up games with Division 1 college players and professional players, including guys like Amanechi. Playing with those guys made me look like I was wearing 50 pound ankle weights and arm weights. They are so fast and quick it is unreal. The talent level in highschool, all levels of college and professional basketball today is even more amazing.
Same thing goes for womens highschool, college and professional basketball. WNBA players would kick the average Joe Schmo's tail in a game of one on one.
In summary, any person who plays on an NBA team is not a stiff. They are a stud.
<< <i>People should not criticize Amanechi for having a short, 5 year, NBA career or for having a scoring average of "only" 6.2 ppg.
Any person who is plays 5 years, 1 year or less [i.e., under a 10 day contract] in the NBA, even if that person is always the 10th-13th player on the roster is a FREAKING STUD OF AN ATHLETE. Anyone who says otherwise simply does not have a clue what they are talking about.
While their stats and playing time in the NBA may not be very great [due to having to compete against LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, etc.], I suggest that you get off of the couch and play pick up basketball for two hours with someone like Amanechi. You will be humbled and embarassed by the experience.
I played high school and small college basketball in the 70's. Even back then the talent level at the small college level was amazing. During my college years I played year round and in the off season played pick up games with Division 1 college players and professional players, including guys like Amanechi. Playing with those guys made me look like I was wearing 50 pound ankle weights and arm weights. They are so fast and quick it is unreal. The talent level in highschool, all levels of college and professional basketball today is even more amazing.
Same thing goes for womens highschool, college and professional basketball. WNBA players would kick the average Joe Schmo's tail in a game of one on one.
In summary, any person who plays on an NBA team is not a stiff. They are a stud. >>
Amen to that. Im not sure how many people realize the percent of athletes, let alone human beings, that have the capabilities to even be on an NBA roster. He wasnt a very good NBA player, but he's in the upper decile of all basketball players in the world.
I add the caveat that we should exclude freakishly tall players like shawn bradley and manute bol from this equation. Those guys get in because they're giants.
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How long did you play in the NBA and what were your stats? Did you play longer and have better stats than Amanechi? My assumption is that you [and 99.999999999999999999999%, if not 100%, of forumites, me included] have never played in the NBA and that the only dunks you have are those that involve doughnuts and a cup of coffee.
It is interesting to see how easily persons who can't criticize those who can and did.
If Amanechi is a bum, then you, me and countless others are Amanechi's toenail fungus or earwax when it comes to basketball playing ability.
Whatever though people have a right to do as they chose as long as they dont hurt anyone.
<< <i>ToppsCo 1lector:
How long did you play in the NBA and what were your stats? Did you play longer and have better stats than Amanechi? My assumption is that you [and 99.999999999999999999999%, if not 100%, of forumites, me included] have never played in the NBA and that the only dunks you have are those that involve doughnuts and a cup of coffee.
It is interesting to see how easily persons who can't criticize those who can and did.
If Amanechi is a bum, then you, me and countless others are Amanechi's toenail fungus or earwax when it comes to basketball playing ability. >>
lol. Calm down. All I'm saying, is in the grand scheme of the NBA(or professional sports) Amaenchi's name isn't up there on ANY list. I'm calling him a bum based on his career in the league, not any personal swipe on his ability.
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I am calm, I just tossed out my reply to see if I could get a rise out of you
If your premise is that Amanechi is not a very good basketball player compared to other players in the NBA, your premise is valid. That premise applies to all professional sports and other human endeavors (i.e. singers, musicians, scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, plumbers, etc.) as some people are the best at what they do, others are only good at what they do and others are lousy at what they do [yet somehow get a gig anyway].
However, the tendancy for fans and average Joes to criticize professional athletes [like Amanechi] as being a bum, a stiff, etc. is just laughable IMHO, since fans and average Joes will not in a million years have the physical abilities and mental toughness to perfrom at the level of professional athletes. Cheers, SanctionII.
<< <i>ToppsCo 1lector:
I am calm, I just tossed out my reply to see if I could get a rise out of you
If your premise is that Amanechi is not a very good basketball player compared to other players in the NBA, your premise is valid. That premise applies to all professional sports and other human endeavors (i.e. singers, musicians, scientists, doctors, lawyers, engineers, plumbers, etc.) as some people are the best at what they do, others are only good at what they do and others are lousy at what they do [yet somehow get a gig anyway].
However, the tendancy for fans and average Joes to criticize professional athletes [like Amanechi] as being a bum, a stiff, etc. is just laughable IMHO, since fans and average Joes will not in a million years have the physical abilities and mental toughness to perfrom at the level of professional athletes. Cheers, SanctionII. >>
lol, I know ya did. I honestly only compared him to the NBA players, I've played with some guys that play for the Terps(MD Div. I) and yeah, I got mad respect for anyone who makes that kind of money playing a game. Hell, we ALL wish we were in that same position. But lets face it, it's not like a guy came out that was memorable for his on-court actions. Amaenchi will only be remembered for this(and the book that he's pushing on this promotional tour of his).
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<< <i>There is a reason Mother Nature made men and women, the sole purpose of sex is to reproduce! >>
You are joking, right?
<< <i>I hate that butch lesbian, Rosie O'Donnell!
I do not hate gay people, nor do I like gay people. >>
Right..........
Don't waffle, just say it. Not like anyone is going to think any less of you
<< <i>
<< <i>There is a reason Mother Nature made men and women, the sole purpose of sex is to reproduce! >>
You are joking, right? >>
Bet you he has one of those belts with thorn thingys wrapped around his thigh
<< <i>
<< <i>There is a reason Mother Nature made men and women, the sole purpose of sex is to reproduce! >>
You are joking, right? >>
Uhhh. That is the truth. The only way assexuality occurs is by pollution(as witness in the DC area rivers and the bass population). The only guy that tried to contend this fact was in fact, a homosexual looking to "justify" his way of life. I personally don't care, in fact the more homosexuals the better for me. Why? Better odds my friends!
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<< <i>I dream of saturating Rosie's bush. >>
THAT IS JUST NASTY
<< <i>
<< <i>I dream of saturating Rosie's bush. >>
THAT IS JUST NASTY
I could make it worse and ask "Was he referring to Rosie O'Donnell or Rosie Greer?" - but don't worry I'm not going to ask that.
Ahhhh... Much better