Who was better . . . Reggie White or Bruce Smith?

1960toppsguy

Who and Why?

JasP24

Reggie White...hands down...Dominant at the point of attack, he was probably one of the strongest guys to ever play DE...Bruce Smith's fortay was his quickness off the ball. Smith was a great pass rusher, but was vulnerable against the run and against a larger Tackle down blocking for the run.

White had no weaknesses. What he lacked in speed, he made up for with power and savvy. He had a vast assortment of moves he could use on any given play...Spin, bull rush, stunt..He could do it all...He was also solid against the run and a great leader.

Bruce Smith is a first ballot Hall of Famer and one of the best pass rushing DE's of all time. Reggie White, IMO, was the one of the greatest defensive PLAYERS of all-time...

You talk D-line...Its Reggie, Joe Greene and Bob Lilly...
LB...Its LT, Singeltary and Lambert
DB...Deion, Ronnie Lott, Rod Woodson

Bruce Smith was GREAT, but not quite in that conversation..

Just my opinion of course,
Jason

Fabfrank

IMO I would say Reggie White. Both are great players and Smith will join White in the HOF when he becomes eligible. I just feel that White was a bit more dominant. Strengthwise, White was more powerful. I would give the speed edge to Smith, although White was ultra quick for such a large man. Also, I feel White was more versatile. He could be called upon to play DT as well as DE. I guess the biggest confirmation of Reggie White's superiority is that people compare Smith to Reggie, not the other way around.

1420sports

Besides what was mentioned, Reggie White played 4 or 5 less seasons than Bruce Smith and is only behind him in sacks by maybe 5 (or less).

tennesseebanker

Being from Tennessee I may be slightly skewed, However, I have seen Reggie play from College to the Memphis Showboats to the NFL. He was an absolute freak of nature when it came to strength. If you could hear some of the stories told by his teamates it is incredible some of the feats of strength he put on. Plus he was an absolutely great guy.

NHLfightguy

I still think Bruce Smith should give back some of that money he stole from the Redskins. He was pretty much done those final few years in DC and got paid a ton of money. I don't blame him for hanging on a few more years to pad his stats.

Wabittwax

<< <i>You talk D-line...Its Reggie, Joe Greene and Bob Lilly...
LB...Its LT, Singeltary and Lambert
DB...Deion, Ronnie Lott, Rod Woodson >>



Great to see 3 Steelers on that list!

Jack Lambert is friggin awesome.

ironranger

Not even close. Reggie in a landslide -- complete player equally as good against the run as rushing the passer. Reggie was probably the best defensive lineman is the history of the NFL. Great in the locker room and a great leader both on and off the field.

jradke4

i think the debate is over, and probably was before it started.

80sJunkie

Good god man how can you even put the 2 in the same question. Bruce who? He wasn't even in reggie whites league.

1960toppsguy

Bruce is a personal friend of mine and he actually spawned the debate . . .

JasP24

<< <i>Bruce is a personal friend of mine and he actually spawned the debate . . . >>



I actually met him once in Hawaii at the Pro Bowl..Wasn't all that nice of a guy and seemed like someone who would ask that question of himself...

Let him know he isn't in the same hemisphere as Reggie White...

Also, ask him if he remembers Tony Boselli and how badly he owned Bruce in the 1996 playoff upset the Jaguars had against the Bills...Its one of the most dominant performances you'll ever see by an Offensive Lineman and it came at Bruce's expense...

Jason

1960toppsguy

Already done that . . . he also mentions Anthony Muynoz as one of the strongest ever

JasP24

<< <i>Already done that . . . he also mentions Anthony Muynoz as one of the strongest ever >>



And none of them could match Reggie's strength...Never seen anyone throw around 300+ lb. OT's like Reggie could...

Jason

shagrotn77

Reggie White. Nuff said. LOL. Not to take anything away from Bruce Smith. He was a great player in hiw own rite and likely earned a first-ballot selection into the HOF, but Reggie White was just flat out better.

beantownboy

White is right

cardbender

I think the consensus is Reggie White was the better D Lineman.

However, Reggie White as a man leaves something to be desired. I've found him to be quite the hypocrite from what he preached.

First, back in the late 1990's when some black churches got torched by some red necks down south (I believe in Tennessee), Reggie used his celebrity and influence to gather donations totaling over $200,000 which he claimed would be used to help re-build the churches. That never happened. The charitable money was gathered but never distributed or used for that cause. No one has ever come forward from the White family and said where the money disappeared to. It's funny how the local media just gave White a pass on that too without demanding some answers.

Secondly, when White was addressing the Madison Wisconsin assembly, he defamed a whole minority group (homesexuals) during his speech.

So yeah, on the field Reggie was better, off the field I'm not so sure. .....

Wabittwax

<< <i>Secondly, when White was addressing the Madison Wisconsin assembly, he defamed a whole minority group (homesexuals) during his speech. >>



You can't really hold that against him. If a person religion tells them something is wrong, then they are going to hold that belief. 99% of preachers in this country will say the same thing along with almost all the churchgoers.

rbdjr1

Which is better?

A prime A-1 cut of steak, charbroiled, grilled to perfection!

or

A fresh 4 pound lobster broiled just perfect and then smothered with melted butter!



rd

1960toppsguy

I'll take the surf and turf please, med-rare . . .

GDM67

First off, it's impossible for me to really be objective. I watched Bruce all through his Outland Trophy winning college career and rooted hard for him every game he played as a pro (except a certain game in Minnesota in January of 1992.)

Reggie White, much like Tim Hardaway just did, really disillusioned me and tore out my heart with his vile opinions.

With that said...I never really think of them as being all that comparable, even though they played the same position. I think of Reggie like Deacon Jones or L.C. Greenwood. A huge guy who just overpowered people with his immense strength. Not to say any of those men weren't agile and quick, because they all were.

Bruce seemed more in the mold of Derrick Thomas or Jim Marshall, a guy who relied on quickness and agility. Conversely, this is not to say those men weren't all tremendously strong. It's all a matter of emphasis and degree.

cardbender

<< <i>

<< <i>Secondly, when White was addressing the Madison Wisconsin assembly, he defamed a whole minority group (homesexuals) during his speech. >>



You can't really hold that against him. If a person religion tells them something is wrong, then they are going to hold that belief. 99% of preachers in this country will say the same thing along with almost all the churchgoers. >>



Steve,
While I respect your opinion and fully agree everyone is entitled to their own opinion on gays and rights to free speech, this is entirely another matter. He got away with saying these racists remarks because: 1) he was a famous black athlete and the politically correct media choose to give him a pass on them, and 2) he used religion to support his bigoted point of view. Just because other churchgoers would agree with him on this issue doesn't make his opinion right. Maybe in their eyes he was/is right, but that's not a consensus.

I don't attend church but I have faith. I've found over the years that many people that attend church and say they are very religeous are typically hypocrites. They go to church on Sunday, but commit many sins during the rest of the week.

I feel religion and faith should be a private matter. Reggie White took it to a public forum and I just think he was out of line. Again everyone is entitled to their opinion on these issues, but if he were truly a man of deep faith and moral convictions, wouldn't the point of view to have on this lifestyle choice be of understanding and maybe some compassion for the discrimination that gays have to deal with throughout their lives? Frankly, why would he even bring it up to begin with? It shows you how ignorant he was about other peoples feelings. You'd think a black person who probably faced some racism of his own growing up in the South, would not take an opportunity to bash another minority group.


Believe me, I don't think gays should have any special rights either.
But I don't think they deserve to get bashed by some athlete either. Everyone should be treated equal, period.

Bottom line, White was a great Football player, but his character to me is lacking in many, many ways. He had a lot of people fooled by standing behind his religion.

And finally, Reggie, show me what happened to the charitible money?

Does anyone really know?

shouldabeena10

<< <i>And finally, Reggie, show me what happened to the charitible money? Does anyone really know? >>



A gay guy stold it from Reggie ... and used it to fund a new TV show on the Bravo network.

JasP24

Regardless of what he was off the field, that in no way affects my opinion of him on the field...

He was dominant on the field, one of the top 2-3 DLs to ever play the game...PERIOD...

This is football, guys are paid to hit people..Its a violent game played by violent guys not choir boys...Its not golf, its not baseball, they arent elected officials..lol...This is why the HOF election committee members they are told NOT to take into account anything the player did off the field...

Micheal Irvin? Not a great guy off the field, but that shouldn't hurt or change anyones HOF vote for him...Art Monk was/is a great guy off the field, but that has zero to do with what he did on the field...Doesnt make his on the field accomplishments look any better...

When it comes to rating a players greatness, the only thing that should be considered is what they did on the gridiron..If you want to rate them on a personal level, that belongs in an entirely different discussion.

Just my opinion of course,
Jason

cardbender

I agree, Reggie White was one of the finest Def. Linemen in NFL history.
The opinion of his Football talent is pretty much unquestioned by most. I was just stating facts about his character.

The HOF says they don't take these issues into consideration for voting on possible candidates, but I really wonder if they don't pick and choose based on certain circumstances. For example, Jim Tyrer more than likely will never have a chance of getting in because of his murder/suicide.

On the flip side, Michael Irvin was a flat out punk but his talent and team success, not his character, got him a bust in the Hall. Go figure.

I guess the Hall-Of-Fame voting mechanism is not a perfect system.

Personally, I think class and character should be a major part of the voting decison. But maybe I'm in the minority on this opinion.

It reminds me of a great line from one of my favorite movies 'HUD' : "Slowly the face of the country changes because of the men we admire."

Does anyone honestly think that the Michael Irvins, Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens types, and all the other dancing, celebrating TD's in your face type of taunting fool players of today, would ever get away with that type of behavior say back in the 1950's or 1960's NFL game? I would think they would have all had short careers based on the number punishing hits they would have been subjected to for their antics.

The rules were different, the players different, and on the field justice prevailed. How I long for those days again.

aro13

I agree with Jason that off the field antics and behaviour should have no influence on Hall of Fame voting or evaluation of a player's career.

However, I will say that it is very tough to not let personal feelings influence some decisions. A borderline candidate is going to be eliminated if they have off the field issues, despite the rules, and an automatic candidate is going to get relegated to more evaluation.

O.J. Simpson is a prime example. Some people probably ranked him among the top 5 running backs of all-time 15 years ago. Now, people always start by saying, "I cannot stand him, but, O.J. Simpson is my 4th best running back of all-time." If a vote were conducted today to name the top all-time NFL players, how many voters would be able to eliminate personal bias against O.J. Simpson and put him on their list?

JasP24

<< <i> If a vote were conducted today to name the top all-time NFL players, how many voters would be able to eliminate personal bias against O.J. Simpson and put him on their list? >>



Probably none...The HOF vote IS a human vote, so its only natural that the voters can and will base at least part of their vote on how they feel about a guy..I think this is a reason it took Irvin a few years to get in, and a reason Art Monk STILL isn't in..He wasn't exactly a media darling...My whole point was it SHOULDN'T be that way...If the guys is/was deserving based on what he did on the field, none of the other stuff should play a factor...Its pretty obvious that it does, at least with the media...

I'm the biggest football fan I know..I love the game, I study the game..And I can easily separate admiring a guy for what he does on the field, and admiring another guy for what he does off of it...For me, they don't mix and I've never been able to understand how others confuse or mix the two issues..Many of the great OFF THE FIELD guys, are lesser known non-superstar type players...I admire what those guys do, their class and character, strictly on what they do OFF the field..Regardless if they are superstar HOFer or a 3rd string undrafted FA...

Being a military guy, I've been greeted at the airport when returning from overseas by cheering crowds thanking me for my service..They admire and respect what I do "On the field" so to speak..But they don't know me or what type of character I possess when I'm at home. The people that know me personally and respect/admire how I conduct myself on a day to day basis do so irregardless of what I do or have done "on the field"..This is the best way I can explain the separation I am talking about...

OJ Simpson is a great example...Personally I think the guy is scum...The way he has conducted himself over the past 10 years or so is despicable...But if I were rating my greatest RBs of all time...He's still high on that list..What he did on the field was fantastic..He was a GREAT player...And while I'm not a big fan of the over-the-top antics of T.O. or Deion or any of those guys, it shouldn't take away from the great things they do..In fact, to me it makes it more impressive..Because you KNOW the guy is just putting a bigger target on himself by doing these things, yet they can still perform at a HOF level...You don't think Irvin drew more attention from defenses who wanted to clean his clock for running his smack? But they still couldnt stop him..He didn't quietly operate under the radar..He was in peoples faces daring them to stop him..And most of the time, they still couldnt..Well, at least until he got the piledriver put on him in Philly..Had he played a more "classy" style, he would have played longer...lol

Jason

aro13

In fact it should actually be easier to vote strictly by on field performance. Intangibles like leadership, unless you are in the locker room on a daily basis, are very tough to measure.


Jason - I am not certain that running smack is likely to make teams focus even more on a key player. Like what you said earlier about it being a violent game played by violent people, that is the case regardless of who opens their mouth. If a DBack is going to lay out a receiver sure they would rather it be Michael Irvin than somebody else but they cannot go out of their way to make that happen.

I remember Zack Thomas a few years ago saying something to the affect of yeah the Dolphins are brutal right now but so are the Jets - right before they played the Jets. He was asked if he was worried about being a marked man or providing bulletin board material. He smiled and responded, "I do not think this means Kevin Mawae is going to hit me any harder than he already does."

perkdog

I cant believe this thread is still going.....

GDM67

It's kind of morphed into a related but different discussion, hasn't it?

Personally, I don't have any real problem with people celebrating, even to the degree that some guys do, now. I like Chad Johnson's routines. I always liked Deion, even when he was playing in Dallas. I like for people to go with their natural personalities. I'd have hated to see Monk or Barry Sanders try to pretend to be that kind of guy, just as much as I'd hated to have seen Joe Horn or Keyshawn Johnson prevented from doing their thing.

My problem with Michael Irvin is the same one I had with Erik Williams, Christian Peter, Lawrence Phillips and Mark Chmura: off field criminality that involves violence. Having a drug problem, even being neck deep in it, like Nate Newton was, is one thing. When you start actually hurting other people, especially women, that's when you go far, far beyond the pale, for me.

ironranger

Cardbender, sure Reggie put his foot in his mouth a couple times. However, look at all of the good acts that he did to help people in need -- some of the programs he started are still active today. On the whole, I think his character was outstanding.