What are they odds of this one coming back recolored

RipublicaninMass

waverly82 71 ryan Just about SMR for a psa 8. Maybe it will crack 200 bucks and the bidders will never be known.

cravetopps

I've seen them light and dark and slabbed. my only concern, as always, is why the card isn't slabbed to begin with when it clearly looks NM-MT and possibly MT. I can see maybe the seller thinking it's a 7 and getting an 8 hammer price. But, I don't see this card going to the PSA 9 range in terms of hammer price. Anyway, I wouldn't sell it ungraded unless I saw something on the card that concerned me or I already submitted it. I guess you can call me jaded.

basestealer

I have to think with as many raw cards that he sells, his buyers are buying them to get them graded--you would think if he doctored them he would have more negatives than he does.

Boopotts

<< <i>I have to think with as many raw cards that he sells, his buyers are buying them to get them graded--you would think if he doctored them he would have more negatives than he does. >>



I agree.

yankeeno7

There are probably very few negatives because it is too long of a time from auction ending to having them unable to be graded.

Feedback is probably also being left once the transaction complete.

Those who have been burned just don't go back and buy from them.

cravetopps

good point. I leave feedback when I get the card, not after I get it graded. The guy may be on the up and up, to be sure. But, if I had a card that was that well centerd, and looked that good (I have seen 71 PSA 9s that don't look as good), then I would get it graded. Why leave that kind of money up to the whims of an ebay auction?

basestealer

People are paying near graded prices for his raw cards... the anticipation of outsmarting PSA is driving the prices of his raw cards through the roof. Frankly, he might be making more doing it his way.

blindflyer

I just bought about $300 worth of raw vintage from Waverly last week.

Got them in the mail on Friday ... and I've got to admit --- they look GREAT.

Will be submitting to PSA ... we'll see how it goes.

-t

Cardcounter2

have bought many 71's from him. About half come back recolored. Check his feedback you don't see many big time buyers bidding on his stuff. This should tell you something. But on the other hand I have seen Scottsusor win some of his auctions.

blindflyer

<< <i>the anticipation of outsmarting PSA .... >>



Basestealer, what exactly do you mean by this?

How does buying raw "outsmart" PSA?

-t

Boopotts

<< <i>There are probably very few negatives because it is too long of a time from auction ending to having them unable to be graded.

Feedback is probably also being left once the transaction complete.

Those who have been burned just don't go back and buy from them. >>



You don't get those kinds of prices for your cards if a) you don't have repeat customers-- and lots of them, and b) if you don't have people bidding who plan on submitting your cards for grading.

Boopotts

<< <i>have bought many 71's from him. About half come back recolored. Check his feedback you don't see many big time buyers bidding on his stuff. This should tell you something. But on the other hand I have seen Scottsusor win some of his auctions. >>





Big time buyers bid on his stuff-- they just don't win it. Why? Because they aren't dumb enough to pay PSA 9 prices for raw cards.

basestealer

<< <i>

<< <i>the anticipation of outsmarting PSA .... >>



Basestealer, what exactly do you mean by this?

How does buying raw "outsmart" PSA?

-t >>


The guy has thousands of cards. You can't possibly go through each one with a fine tooth comb and figure out which ones to send to PSA, which ones to list raw, etc. without employees. If this guy is efficient, he either sends all his cards to PSA and then lists them, or he lists them raw. He chooses to list them raw. If his cards are borderline PSA 8 and PSA 9, and buyers are willing to pay above PSA 8 prices (but below PSA 9 prices), he's already won the game, and he didn't need to get them graded. He's saved thousands of dollars in grading fees, not to mention money and time saved by not going through the hassle. His buyers, having spent somewhere between PSA 8 and PSA 9 prices for his raw cards either win (if it comes back a 9) or lose (if it comes back less than a 9). Perhaps "outsmart PSA" was the wrong term to use--but his buyers are definately taking a gamble on high grade raw cards, with the hopes they grade high enough to justify the prices they're spending.

diamondman

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>the anticipation of outsmarting PSA .... >>



Basestealer, what exactly do you mean by this?

How does buying raw "outsmart" PSA?

-t >>


The guy has thousands of cards. You can't possibly go through each one with a fine tooth comb and figure out which ones to send to PSA, which ones to list raw, etc. without employees. If this guy is efficient, he either sends all his cards to PSA and then lists them, or he lists them raw. He chooses to list them raw. If his cards are borderline PSA 8 and PSA 9, and buyers are willing to pay above PSA 8 prices (but below PSA 9 prices), he's already won the game, and he didn't need to get them graded. He's saved thousands of dollars in grading fees, not to mention money and time saved by not going through the hassle. His buyers, having spent somewhere between PSA 8 and PSA 9 prices for his raw cards either win (if it comes back a 9) or lose (if it comes back less than a 9). Perhaps "outsmart PSA" was the wrong term to use--but his buyers are definately taking a gamble on high grade raw cards, with the hopes they grade high enough to justify the prices they're spending. >>



I AGREE!
not everyone (old schoolers) believe in PSA and not everyone wants thier cards Entombed in Plastic, Have dealt with Waverly's in the past a straight shooter. Just my opinion!

RipublicaninMass

<< <i>

<< <i>There are probably very few negatives because it is too long of a time from auction ending to having them unable to be graded.

Feedback is probably also being left once the transaction complete.

Those who have been burned just don't go back and buy from them. >>



You don't get those kinds of prices for your cards if a) you don't have repeat customers-- and lots of them, and b) if you don't have people bidding who plan on submitting your cards for grading. >>



you forgot c) you have shills, nobody gets that kinda money for raw cards. it just doesn't make sense, maybe I am jaded from GEM grading :0

bri2327

Id bet most of my collection that the '71 Munson they have up for sale is recolored.

'71 Munson

diamondman

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>There are probably very few negatives because it is too long of a time from auction ending to having them unable to be graded.

Feedback is probably also being left once the transaction complete.

Those who have been burned just don't go back and buy from them. >>



You don't get those kinds of prices for your cards if a) you don't have repeat customers-- and lots of them, and b) if you don't have people bidding who plan on submitting your cards for grading. >>



you forgot c) you have shills, nobody gets that kinda money for raw cards. it just doesn't make sense, maybe I am jaded from GEM grading :0 >>



Your new Cu Name is JADED, and some people (honest people ) do get that price out of RAW.

yankeeno7

I agree with Brian. If the card is THAT good, we know what a PSA 8 brings....and holy crap, what a PSA 9 brings! Can nearly guarantee if submitted, the person submitting and taking the chance will be HIGHLY disappointed.

It just makes no sense to not have that caliber of card graded yourself.

Edited to say: Waverly is in this for they money, not to cater to raw collectors. I think any person in this business would maximize their profits.

66Starfire

I bought 71 munson and about 30 others. Crap shoot. 1/2 came back recolored including the munson.
After emailing him about it, NO REPLY NO Guarantee! As we all know, between shipping & PSA processing even
@ $13 level, could be 30 days.
GoOD LUCK. I'd pass after losing about $500 with waverly.JMHO
Larry

Boopotts

<< <i>I agree with Brian. If the card is THAT good, we know what a PSA 8 brings....and holy crap, what a PSA 9 brings! Can nearly guarantee if submitted, the person submitting and taking the chance will be HIGHLY disappointed.

It just makes no sense to not have that caliber of card graded yourself.

Edited to say: Waverly is in this for they money, not to cater to raw collectors. I think any person in this business would maximize their profits. >>




This is no longer true. If you have a good feedback rating AND sell almost nothing but raw you can frequently get better than the PSA 8 price for NM-MT raw. I see it all the time---especially with 70's cards. There are simply enough people out there who want something for nothing, and are willing to pay a premium for the slight possibility that you've undergraded your cards.

sagard

Waverly lets you return no questions asked within seven days. He does this so it's your guess vs. his on the grading. No 3rd party to settle the score. He even refuse to have me send a card in at my cost and simply had me return it.

bri2327

<< <i>Waverly lets you return no questions asked within seven days. He does this so it's your guess vs. his on the grading. No 3rd party to settle the score. He even refuse to have me send a card in at my cost and simply had me return it. >>



Yeah he let you return it rather than send it in, find out the card was altered and out him for selling garbage. He then resells the card to someone less knowledgeable who he could pass it off on as unaltered.

BTW...anyone who takes a look at the '71 Munson in the link I provided and doesnt see how that card was recolored needs to pick up either a new eyeglass prescription or a new color monitor for their computer.

storm888

"BTW...anyone who takes a look at the '71 Munson in the link I provided and doesnt see how that card was recolored needs to pick up either a new eyeglass prescription or a new color monitor for their computer. "

////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I blew the thing up REALLY big.

The bottom part of the card that looks like it has been played with
in the scan, probably has not been.

The mottling extends all the way down into the background.
The speckles are not on the card; they cannot be because
the identical speckles are on the background when the card
is exploded.

That does not mean the card has or has not been played with.

jradke4

so is the assumption here that all 700+ of his '71's are recolored? If so someone should by a cheap one and submitt it. Just a random card. He has some that are around a $. i dont think that PSA always knows if it has been recolored. i had a modern flair card come back recolored. its hard to see how someone could even attempt to since the design of the card is all strange, one of the legacy cards. i sent it back in december so we will see how it comes back.