Ancient Certified Gold
GOLDSAINT
Posts: 2,148 ✭
Who out there is putting together a collection of ancient certified gold from 1000 A.D back to 1000 B.C.?
Who are some of the best dealers out there to work with?
I am not finding many coins in the 700 A.D. to 1000 A.D age group who knows why?
In addition in my very brief beginning studies of gold coins from ancient cultures I
have not been seeing any gold coins older that about 600 B.C., and yet the
civilizations of large parts of the world date back 1,000 to 1,500 years
before that. Who can enlighten me on what some of the earliest gold coins were?
GOT PICS?
Anyone have any ancient certified gold they want to sell, please send PM.
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Comments
<< <i>Who are some of the best dealers out there to work with?
I am not finding many coins in the 700 A.D. to 1000 A.D age group who knows why?
<< <i>
Goldsaint,
Dealers.. a few are Civitas Galleries , Freeman & Sear , Classical Numismatic Group
Regarding 700 A.D. to 1000 A.D. ...... This is the time of the Byzantine Empire and I would not think that you should have any problem finding gold coins from that period. Check out the web sites mentioned above they always have a nice selection of Byzantine Gold.
Hope this helps.
<< <i>600 B.C. is about when Western coinage was invented. Check out that page's footnotes for some good references. >>
Excellent link, very informative and fascinating reading. Thank you for posting it.
"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media" - William Colby, former CIA director
I still am trying to figure out where the gold coins from about 700 A.D. to 1100 A.D. went. Gee that’s 400 years with little to offer?
Unfortunately for those of us looking to collect in this time frame, much of the world just did not have anything or nearly anything to offer. All of N. America, S. America, China, Russia, and many other parts of the world just had no gold coins to speak of during these ancient times, that’s to bad.
Again thanks for all your links!!!!!
As Silvereagle mentioned, the Eastern Roman Empire continued to issue the gold Solidus and its fractions for centuries. You also might look into Islamic coins. The Abassid Dinar was of great importance to the Mediterranian and European economies during the centuries you're looking at. So much so that an Anglo-Saxon king actually immitated it, adding his name (upside down
1. There never was very much gold coinage to begin with, from most countries you might be interested in collecting. As has been noted, the Arabs and Byzantines, with their stranglehold on the east-west and north-south trade routes, held most of the gold during the "Dark Age" or Mediaeval period (about 500-1450 AD). The small amount of gold which made it to the more remote parts of western Europe (like Britain) remained in the form which it arrived in, for the most part - jewellery, religious artefacts and Islamic or Byzantine coinage. Gold was gold and was traded as a commodity; it didn't really matter to Dark Age folks what form it was in or what the foreign squiggles on the foreign gold coins meant, especially since most folks couldn't read.
2. The archaeological nature of ancient and most mediaeval coins cannot be overlooked. There's no such thing as a coin that's been kicking around in people's collections for over a thousand years because there are no known collections older than the 1400's. As a result, all ancient gold coins in collections today were dug up out of the ground somewhere, normally as a result of archaeological digs. This means a relatively higher proportion of ancient coins end up in museums and government institutions, unavailable to collectors. Most Old World countries also have some sort of laws in place preventing the plundering of their buried cultural heritage; "finders aren't keepers". There is a vocal minority of archaeologists that believe that the private collection and ownership of any ancient artefacts (including coins) should be banned.
3. Ancient and mediaeval collectors have for the most part shunned slabbing. Most collectors feel that ancient coins are meant to be held in the hand, not entombed in plastic. I suspect many of the ancients privately submitted to the TPGs are submitted for authentication purposes only, and are cracked out of the slabs straight away.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded the DPOTD twice.
To add to Sapx, you will not likely find slabbed ancient gold. One, most TPGs don't handle the stuff. Also, collecting ancients, at least in the price tiers required of ancient gold, is mostly the domain of specialists--that means study is required, more than a casual Googling, in order to make informed choices on authenticity and quality. Anything else and you're just throwing money around. Of course, for those not specializing there are several reputable dealers out there like those mentioned above who can take some of the guesswork out of it all.
If you're just browsing right now the two best places to go would be CNG and VCoins. You can quickly grasp the range of available material with some time spent at VCoins.
My wantlist & references
Thanks again for your comments and information. My feeling here are that as the world continues to become one big unhappy family many collectors from around the world will seek the roots of civilization in these great coins. Archeology is a world wide business with its own political agenda. Hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year on sites around the world, and grants for free money are just another form of political intellectual greed.
There are more artifacts packed in underground storage around the world now than could ever be displayed.
When you go in the museums of the world, the one thing that seems missing in most, are collection of rare gold coins, I wonder why that is.
Have you ever watched some of those shows on the learning channel about digs from around the world? Ever see anyone find a hoard of gold coins?
As to the certification of the coins I am buying, after reading a story on ebay of a Mr. Becker that made over 1,000 fakes of different coins in the 1800’s, and a story of a man in the eastern U.S. that built a collection of gold ancients spending over $100,000 on fakes, I decided to let the TPG’S decide. I am sure this poor fellow on the east coast was holding his little jewels in his hands looking loving at his collection, wondering about where these coins had been. What a shock to find out a jeweler in Europe made most of his collection just a few years ago.
Who knows the story of these Hyperpyron type coins? Why were they made as a larger concave type coin in the middle ages?
<< <i>When you go in the museums of the world, the one thing that seems missing in most, are collection of rare gold coins, I wonder why that is. >>
Because of high value and security problems and risks they are storedin the vaults and not displayed. Eventually since they are never displayed the museums tend to sell them off for funds they can use for their more popular displays and operating expenses.
<< <i> Archeology is a world wide business with its own political agenda. >>
And much of that adgenda is directed at destroying the collecting of anything other than 20th century material (The cultural property laws.). Many countries are trying to restrict the movement of coins out of their countries or into any other (Usually any coins of the country, or which were used in the coutry or passed through the country before around 1900.). They want to confiscate any coins dug up in their countries so if any citizens find coins the only way they can benefit from them is to either try to smuggle them out which is exactly what the government are trying to stop (and which carry severe penalties if caught), or go the safer route and just melt them down for the bullion.
<< <i>600 B.C. is about when Western coinage was invented. Check out that page's footnotes for some good references. >>
Maybe the Chinese mints can come up with something earlier?
“And much of that agenda is directed at destroying the collecting of anything other than 20th century material”
This is exactly correct, and we really need some changes in the entire system, but I am afraid no changes are coming. The Cairo museum has over one million items now in storage.
I don’t have a problem with letting the archeologist in first to do research, and preserve things in a scientific way, but after each dig, and the local museums pick some things that can truly be displayed for the public, everything else should go to auction. This type of system would also pay for lots more digs.
Over 6,000 un-dug sites were covered with water in China a few years ago by the new dam , because there was no money for digs.
The funny thing is that nothing any of these countries do will make any difference, all these laws do is add a layer of new people handling the goods, and so the prices go up. If the smugglers can move billions of dollars worth of drugs and weapons each year, a few thousand gold coins are going to be NO-PROBLEMO.
Anyway back to our discussion. Is anyone collecting in this area, I have seen no pics?
No early gold coins in China! In early dynasties like the Zhou and Han they did have little bronze flat sculpted pieces of metal for money. By the time Kublai Khan, Ghengis grandson, came to power The Chinese had the printing press and Kublai made everyone turn their gold and silver in and issued paper money, sound familiar?
If so, what are you buying?
What seems hard to find.
What do you think about the prices?
Does anyone have one of those Lions from Lydia, posted by Lynch?
I have a 7th addition Friedberg book, and the prices seem pretty stable over the last three years with the exception of gold moves.
Below is a piece of Chinese bronze money I own from about 500B.C it is about 2in. long
If you start talkin' about Roman aureus coinage and ancient Greek gold (actually electrum), then it gets much pricier.