Super Bowl, FB = The National Passtime ?
jaxxr
Posts: 1,258 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
It seems no one can dispute the Super Bowl is more watched and anticipated, than the World Series.
Has Football taken over as our National passtime, and topped baseball ? Probably so.
This did not happen overnight, but most likely over time and due to a progression of events.
At the turn of the century, baseball was THE professional team sport, no other sports were well organized or popular. America was more a rural place and loved baseball. The major leauges may have reached its peak after WW2, prosperitey, racial acceptance, TV growth, and other factors may have helped BB reach it's top popularity in the 50s and thereabouts. However, FB was starting to really gain acceptance.
Football was always reasonably popular as a college sport, and still is. In the 1900's only small clubs and short-lived teams tried professional FB. The NFL started in 1920, but needed some boost,
A. IN 1925 RED GRANGE JOINED THE CHICAGO BEARS, to gain its first big notice from the public. Now it was a decent draw and slowly grew, then,
B. IN 1943 THE RAMS MOVED FROM CLEVELAND TO L.A., giving the NFL true coast to coast coverage. As interest gained and more and more enjoyed TV viewing, a true great game happened,
C. IN 1958 THE COLTS BEAT THE GIANTS 23-17 IN SUDDEN DEATH OVERTIME, this was a first for a championship game and may have been the real startup for tremendous fan interest. The AFL began and football prospered, a meeting of the two rivals was begun and eventually,
D. IN 1969 THE AFL JETS UPSET THE NFL COLTS IN SB 3, this year spawned hope and interest for all fans across the country regardless of the league, and also was the year Monday Night FB signed up to begin the following season.
Other events transpired and the NFL continued to grow, TV records are constantly being set and broken by pro football, and it is likely sometime in the 70s, a bigger fan base than any other sport was now the NFL's.
The marketing, promotion, press coverage, and entertainment generated by the yearly Super Bowl is second to none. My simple timeline aforementioned, may show a possible progession as to how the Big Game has become the number one sporting event. Times and tastes have changed, it does appear pro football has displaced major league baseball as our National passtime.
Has Football taken over as our National passtime, and topped baseball ? Probably so.
This did not happen overnight, but most likely over time and due to a progression of events.
At the turn of the century, baseball was THE professional team sport, no other sports were well organized or popular. America was more a rural place and loved baseball. The major leauges may have reached its peak after WW2, prosperitey, racial acceptance, TV growth, and other factors may have helped BB reach it's top popularity in the 50s and thereabouts. However, FB was starting to really gain acceptance.
Football was always reasonably popular as a college sport, and still is. In the 1900's only small clubs and short-lived teams tried professional FB. The NFL started in 1920, but needed some boost,
A. IN 1925 RED GRANGE JOINED THE CHICAGO BEARS, to gain its first big notice from the public. Now it was a decent draw and slowly grew, then,
B. IN 1943 THE RAMS MOVED FROM CLEVELAND TO L.A., giving the NFL true coast to coast coverage. As interest gained and more and more enjoyed TV viewing, a true great game happened,
C. IN 1958 THE COLTS BEAT THE GIANTS 23-17 IN SUDDEN DEATH OVERTIME, this was a first for a championship game and may have been the real startup for tremendous fan interest. The AFL began and football prospered, a meeting of the two rivals was begun and eventually,
D. IN 1969 THE AFL JETS UPSET THE NFL COLTS IN SB 3, this year spawned hope and interest for all fans across the country regardless of the league, and also was the year Monday Night FB signed up to begin the following season.
Other events transpired and the NFL continued to grow, TV records are constantly being set and broken by pro football, and it is likely sometime in the 70s, a bigger fan base than any other sport was now the NFL's.
The marketing, promotion, press coverage, and entertainment generated by the yearly Super Bowl is second to none. My simple timeline aforementioned, may show a possible progession as to how the Big Game has become the number one sporting event. Times and tastes have changed, it does appear pro football has displaced major league baseball as our National passtime.
This aint no party,... this aint no disco,.. this aint no fooling around.
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Comments
There is no question football is more watched, per Nielsen ratings(esp. the Super Bowl!). But, is that an accurate measure of a 'national pastime'? Is it measuring T.V. viewing habits, or is it measuring the true following of a sport?
I don't think there is any question that football is a better 'made for T.V.' sport, but is that indicative of the degree of pleasure, knowledge, or following of the sport...compared to baseball.
Wikipedia defines a National SPort with the following criteria...
1)The rules and objectives of the sport or game are known in fairly great detail in the country or nation
2)The game or sport is widely played or watched in the country or nation
3)The game or sport has a long history of popularity or extreme current popularity in the country or nation.
1)If you look at number one, baseball would clearly be in favor. There are a TON of women who have no idea what a first down means, and that is a huge component to a football game. That is like a woman not knowing what a base hit is. In fact, there are a lot of people completely ignorant to the rules of a football game, other than a touchdown is worth seven points(which they are also wrong).
If you survey sports followers on the street(even JUST MEN), and ask them to name the positions of a football team, and of a baseball team, there would be very few to get the football positions right. I doubt a soul would get the baseball ones wrong. Why? It is engrained in us. Nobody outside of the sports nuts knows what a Guard is...in fact if you asked them what a guard is, they would think basketball and probably have no clue it is in football too.
2) Both are widely watched. Pro football more so than pro baseball(on a per game basis)...but we don't know exactly how many different people tune into a World Series. Many only watch a couple of the games. Same with the regular season. Yeah, on a per game basis, football is watched more. But the total number of people who watch regular season games is pretty high for baseball. It is just spread out more, instead of just the once a week thing.
Played? There is no question baseball is more played. Many towns don't even have a football league for kids. Many schools don't either, and certainly many colleges don't...even division one. Heck, the University of Illinois at chicago doesn't. If softball is counted, then it is a life long sport, and played far more.
3) Baseball obviously has longer histroy/tradition, and they are both extremely followed now. But based on hte history part, baseball would take this one too. I put collectibles, cards in this category. I also put the number of books written about the two, which I believe baseball still has more books being published about it,than football.
In summary, NFL is watched on T.V. on a per game basis more than MLB, no doubt. But football isn't woven into our society as deeply as baseball. Everyone knows baseball and its rules, it is played more(waaay more if you count softball too), and its past is known more as well. The average guy on the street has no idea what a Bronco Nagurski is, but Babe Ruth or Lou Gehrig from that same time...well.
In finality, I would add that Football Betting is more of a National Pastime, than Football watching for pleasure is. Also, the Super Bowl is just one big commercial. It says a lot about a sport/event(in terms of national sport) if a lot of people simply tune in for the commercials and half time show.
No.
Steve
Didn't want to post on this topic because baseball fans are very sensitive about this issue.
My first thought was that the two are so different, that they really shouldn't even be compared.
The question doesn't make any sense.
It's like asking which is more popular, movies or music?
They are two things that have little in common other than they are both forms of entertainment.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Our National Pastime is watching t.v.! That is probably the activity that takes up the most collective hours of our time as a nation.
Which sport passes the most time? Which one do we collectively as a nation devote the most time/hours in following, watching, and playing?
Well, looking at all those aspects, it is still baseball. This sport simply occupies more of our collective time than any other. So no, football has not overtaken baseball.
If you want to say the Super Bowl is watched more than any other sport, it would be true. But that is only a small part of what constitutes as pastime.
<< <i>Has Football taken over as our National passtime, and topped baseball ?
No.
Steve >>
only in the gambling arena
National "passtime" is truly subjective, however the numbers seems to say it is more popular.
I do enjoy baseball a bit more, but do realize the majority of people do not.
I would agree that more people watch the NFL more than MLB. But I can't be certain, as the ratings measure it on a per game basis, but there may be more total people who tune into a MLB game. The problem is that they are all spread out. Very hard to tell.
I would disagree about talking about the NFL. Seems most arguments, debates are more towards MLB.
But a pastime compares the entire sport...as per something like the widipedia definition(which is a pretty good definition of what a NATIONAL pastime is. A lot of people simply don't know a thing about the rules or anything of football, but that isn't the case in baseballl. That is a tell tale sign for a national measurement.
Football is the king.
The facts are as follows.
More people watch the NFL on a per game basis. If the Chicago Cubs had only a 16 game schedule, confidence is very high that they too would have similar ratings per game.
The Super Bowl is watched more than the World Series.
More people play baseball/softball to a MUCH greater degree than football. This is true among youths and adults. Most towns have maybe 30 kids at an age level on their football team(if they even have a football team). That same sized town will usually have 12+ little league teams(of that same age level). Aside from a few flag football leagues, hardly any adults play football. My current town has 36 little league teams for age 9/10, and one football team for that age(weight).
The rules of baseball are better known to the U.S. population than the rules of football are. Just walk down the street and start quizzing people, and that will be obvious. Ask the average person to explain a first down, and a base hit. Also to name the positions in the infield and the positions on the offensive line.
The history of baseball is more well known and engrained in our society.
NFL football's viewing is greatly inflated by gambling. NFL gambling is just a big a pastime as NFL viewing.
More schools carry baseball teams, as opposed to football teams.
There are more collective hours spent PASSING TIME on the sport of baseball...which includes watching, playing, coaching, talking, collecting, writing. This is the biggest determing factor, as this tells you what our country spends more of our time doing when we are not working. More time is spent with baseball, as opposed to football. Coupled with a greater knowledge of the rules/play of baseball, then it is still the closet thing to a National pastime there is.
The NFL being more popular(if it is) than MLB does not equate that to being FOOTBALL as being more nationally engrained than BASEBALL. See the above why.
The national pastime to me is the sport that's most popular. That, without a doubt, is the NFL, and has been for a long time. I am a long time baseball fan, and it's still my favorite sport, so don't accuse me of being a football homer, but it's easy to see to anyone being subjective that football is infinitely more popular than baseball.
If your definition is the PRO sport which is most popular, than you 'may' be correct. That is a kind of shallow look at the issue of a NATIONAL PASTIME, which is the question posed. I added a greater detail. No homer accusations.
You would have to define by what you mean by popular. Simply saying the SUper Bowl is the most watched is very flawed. I went to a party today, and people still thought the Bears had a legit shot at winning the game on their last drive(yelling/screaming). It was quite evident they never watched too many football games in their life. So, those SuperBowl numbers are GREATLY influenced by this kind of stuff.
I should have asked all those people to name the offensive line positions, and then the baseball positions.
One simple question...
Which sport, and NOT just the Pro Sport, are more human hours spent on in watching, playing, and following?
Another...
How many man hours a year(from fans) are spent just watching baseball, compared to watching football?
The numbers don't lie: #1 popularity is the NFL now. Ad revenue, tv ratings, profitability, everything you could look to as a measurable indicator of success all points to the NFL being #1.
I'll ask one final question on the topic, and then I'm done: when is the MLB channel coming?
What is the definition of a pastime?
-something that serves to make time pass agreeably; a pleasant means of amusement, recreation, or sport: to play cards as a pastime.
- An activity that occupies one's spare time pleasantly: Sailing is her favorite pastime.
Steve, this is why baseball is referred to as the National Pastime, because among sports, it still is.
Steve, ESPN was basically a MLB channel.
Steve, the youth leagues....one team with a roster of 30 is not equate to a 36 teams with a roster of 12.
POPULARITY IS NOT THE SAME THING AS A PASTIME!
<< <i>Steve, ESPN was basically a MLB channel. >>
Key word here is WAS. No longer, the NFL reigns supreme. Why are you so blind to the facts? And you didn't answer my question: when is the MLB channel coming?
<< <i>
<< <i>Has Football taken over as our National passtime, and topped baseball ?
No.
Steve >>
only in the gambling arena >>
AND the drinking arena
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
What the heck is the definition of pastime???
-something that serves to make time pass agreeably; a pleasant means of amusement, recreation, or sport: to play cards as a pastime.
- An activity that occupies one's spare time pleasantly: Sailing is her favorite pastime.
Steve, this is why baseball is referred to as the National Pastime, because among sports, it still is.
You may go on Axtell. We've had this conversation before with you(somewhat). I don't care what you 'view' to be more popular, that isn't the question. I thought you only had one more question? This smells of Axtell big time.
What does the A stand for? Just curious.
Yes indeed!
I mean, what are the odds of another Godless, left-wing liberal coming on here to spew nonsense?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Christ you guys are dense. I don't care what 15 page thesis you trot out, there's no way of convincing me or the countless millions who watch football that it's not the national pastime. Sorry bud.
Yes, Axtell, we're all quite aware of your ill founded opinions and ignorance of the facts.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Just reading about Prince(in another thread), and I see some eerie posts that smack Axtell, and here in this thread are more of course. Yup, he's back! Sorry, but I won't give a serious answer to any of your 'questions' or comments Ax. >>
What's the matter, skin?
Found someone that won't be bullied by pages and pages of anecdotal 'evidence' and put you in your place? Look, its a matter of opinion, and you could chime in with 10000 pages of text, it still won't change anyone's.
And I'll answer it for you: THERE IS NO MLB CHANNEL. However, there is an NFL channel. Case closed.
How are things going lately? Its been a while. Do you still follow the Mariners and Tampa? Let the new posters get to know ya a bit.
How are things going lately? Its been a while. Do you still follow the Mariners and Tampa? Let the new posters get to know ya a bit.
No wonder he's a "cubs" fan now, with Sweet Lou at the helm!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
its apparent you don't have an answer for someone who uses facts to disarm your ridiculous statements. Good night, toolshed.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Yeah, so how do you feel about sweet Lou on the Cubbies? Do you think he can get ichiro over there?
I simply posted that it would be an interesting dynamic in chicago. Please post where I wrote 'I'm a cubs fan'?
Ill now kindly ask you to shut up.
Be interesting to see all that new talent and Pinella meshing together.
Owned again, clown!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> Feb 15th and I am stoked.
Be interesting to see all that new talent and Pinella meshing together.
Owned again, clown!
Yes, it will be interesting.
Please state how that equates into being a cubs fan?
Bucs still suck, BTW.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I think real sports fans would love to see a game 7 of a hotly contested MLB, NBA or even the NHL series. The Super Bowl just as more hype with a 2 week window. >>
This really answers the whole question as to why the Superbowl is so big. It's like a Game 7 every year. The average, non sports loving American can't get into a spread out series to determine a champion. But, people love one big 60 minute bang for all the marbles even if they're not a football fan. Throw a party, drink some beers and it's over. Monday we return back to work with good memories instead of wondering what will happen in Game 2 on Tuesday. People have to watch every game of a series if they want to see the champions win but with football, they know that on Superbowl Sunday, they will see a champion crowned no matter what.
Joe
<< <i>Wow, I guesss there must be a wide variance across the country, or something. Organized kids leagues aside, when is the last time you saw a bunch of boys out in the sandlot playing a pickup baseball game? When kids grab a ball to play outside, it's a football. Has been for a while.
Joe >>
By me, they're playing SOCCER on baseball fields...Blasphemy!
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow, I guesss there must be a wide variance across the country, or something. Organized kids leagues aside, when is the last time you saw a bunch of boys out in the sandlot playing a pickup baseball game? When kids grab a ball to play outside, it's a football. Has been for a while.
Joe >>
By me, they're playing SOCCER on baseball fields...Blasphemy! >>
A cold shiver just went down my spine. Please tell me you live in Brazil or France.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow, I guesss there must be a wide variance across the country, or something. Organized kids leagues aside, when is the last time you saw a bunch of boys out in the sandlot playing a pickup baseball game? When kids grab a ball to play outside, it's a football. Has been for a while.
Joe >>
By me, they're playing SOCCER on baseball fields...Blasphemy! >>
A cold shiver just went down my spine. Please tell me you live in Brazil or France.
Joe >>
Nope. Pennsylvania.
Professional Football Continues to be the Nation’s Favorite Sport
Baseball is now a distant second in popularity followed by college football and auto racing
Professional football continues to surge in popularity as one-third (33%) of U.S. adults who follow at least one sport say it is their favorite sport. This is up three points from last year. Baseball slips slightly again this year, dropping to 14 percent, down one point from last year. Coming close on the heels of baseball is college football (13%) followed by auto racing (11%). While both of these have seen a rise in the past year, racing is up four points this year, most likely as a result of NASCAR’s increasing popularity.
These are the results of a nationwide Harris Interactive® survey conducted online between December 8 and 14, 2005 among 1,961 U.S. adults, of whom 1,402 follow at least one sport.
In the past 20 years, professional football and baseball have seen the most dramatic changes in popularity. Since 1985, professional football has risen nine points in popularity (from 24% to 33%), while baseball has dropped the same amount (23% to 14%). The next largest change in popularity is in auto racing, which has risen six points since 1985, from five to 11 percent. Men’s tennis has seen a drop in popularity of four points in this same time period down to one percent from five percent in 1985.
Demographic variations
The survey also finds some sizable differences between different segments of the population. Pro football is most popular among African Americans (47%), those with household incomes of $50,000 to under $75,000 (41%) and $35,000 to under $50,000 (40%), and among Generation X (those aged 28 to 39) (39%). Those with a post graduate education are least likely (23%) to call professional football their favorite sport.
Baseball does best among Hispanics (20%) and Echo Boomers (those aged 18–27) (21%). African Americans are least likely to say baseball is their favorite sport (6%).
College football is particularly popular among Republicans and those with post graduate degrees (both 20%). Five percent of those with household incomes of less than $15,000 cite professional football as their favorite sport.
Auto racing (which includes NASCAR) is most popular among those with a high school education or less (19%) and Baby Boomers (15%), while it fares worst among those with a post graduate degree (2%) and Generation X (4%).
Here's the link:
Harris Poll--"If you had to choose, which ONE of these sports would you say is your favorite?"
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Times and tastes do change, it is not 1907 anymore, nor is it 1957, times when baseball ruled. Movies, books, music, and the media have changed, in addition there are also new venues like TV, the internet , and many others. We might like to think baseball is still THE pastime but in reality our interests have changed, and pro football with its violence, cheerleaders, replays, and whatever, are in reality more interesting to the general public.
<< <i>The Harris poll seems to confirm the original premise of this thread..
Times and tastes do change, it is not 1907 anymore, nor is it 1957, times when baseball ruled. Movies, books, music, and the media have changed, in addition there are also new venues like TV, the internet , and many others. We might like to think baseball is still THE pastime but in reality our interests have changed, and pro football with its violence, cheerleaders, replays, and whatever, are in reality more interesting to the general public. >>
And thus making football item/cards more collectible...If there is anyone in this thread who doesn't collect football cards, you should take a look at what vintage football, heck even 70's football is selling for on ebay lately...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
If I am not alone then that would have a big impact on the TV ratings and would give the appearance that football is more popular.
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