OK, now that I've won it, guess the grade ('93 Finest refractor Butler)
TNP777
Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭
I already have one, but I don't think it is as nice as this one. Not sure if I overpaid for it, but I wanted an extra to possibly send in for grading. I know it's OC top to bottom - opinions on a grade? Is it too OC to qualify for a 9? I'll rescan it when it arrives so you guys can have a closer look.
'93 Finest Butler refractor
Geordie
'93 Finest Butler refractor
Geordie
0
Comments
Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards
My PSA Registry Sets
34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Edited to say: Depending on what day it is at PSA, could possibly be a 9
I'm sure JMB tried the same thing and just gave up and sold it unslabbed.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>What gosteelers said. It might take you a few times, but you might eventually get a grader who thinks the card is a 9.
I'm sure JMB tried the same thing and just gave up and sold it unslabbed. >>
Jealousy remains the most pathetic of emotions.
Actually, I just purchased a lot of 3-4 Butlers and sent in a couple to PSA. This one has never been through. But I appreciate your interest DBH, really I do.
I think it is a PSA 8. If it were a legitimate PSA 9 card, I wouldn't have sold it on eBay at no reserve and started bidding at $0.01. As Mark has stated, PSA 9s are worth approximately 7X more than what the OP paid.
In any case, the purchaser got a great deal. I thought it would sell for $100 raw on eBay and I paid $30 for it. So my profit margin was really quite low on this sale.
<< <i>
<< <i>What gosteelers said. It might take you a few times, but you might eventually get a grader who thinks the card is a 9.
I'm sure JMB tried the same thing and just gave up and sold it unslabbed. >>
Jealousy remains the most pathetic of emotions.
Actually, I just purchased a lot of 3-4 Butlers and sent in a couple to PSA. This one has never been through. But I appreciate your interest DBH, really I do.
I think it is a PSA 8. If it were a legitimate PSA 9 card, I wouldn't have sold it on eBay at no reserve and started bidding at $0.01. As Mark has stated, PSA 9s are worth approximately 7X more than what the OP paid.
In any case, the purchaser got a great deal. I thought it would sell for $100 raw on eBay and I paid $30 for it. So my profit margin was really quite low on this sale. >>
Are you sick in the head or something? Where the hell did you get jealousy from by me stating what everyone already knows? - that the card probably was submitted to PSA in the past when that's your MO and the MO of just about every 1993 refractor reseller?
Resubmitting 1993 finest refractors is how the game is played. If a submitter is patient enough, he'll eventually get that '8' into a 9 or even 10 slab. You know it and I know it, along with anyone who has been following 93 refs for the past 4-5 years.
We all know PSA is so inconsistent when it comes to grading the issue that unless the card is near miscut (95-5 centering) or has a corner smashed in, a PSA 9 is possible.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
But thanks for writing such a long and emotionally-laden response.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Geordie
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>ok, to bring this back around to the original intent, thanks for all the comments given, both publicly in this thread and via PM. Whatever it grades, I'll be happy. The one I currently own isn't as nice, so I'll be relying on the kindness of one of my friends here to submit it for me - I've already had someone offer to help me out. If it comes back an 8, fine. If I get a grader on a happy day and he gives it a 9, which doesn't look likely, then I'll be very happy. I'm not one of those militants that gets upset if something is holdered as a 9 or 10, but in their opinion doesn't warrant such a grade. I'm perfectly happy with the number that's on the holder. Perhaps I'll resubmit once and hope for a bump, but to be honest, I'm not all that worried about it.
Geordie >>
Well,
you must be at least kinda worried about the grade, right? You had me send you a larger picture and went to all the trouble to solicit everyone's opinions on here. And, in your email to me earlier, stated that "I had probably submitted the card to PSA before anyways," which is completely unbased and -- entirely -- incorrect.
So, I can't help but think that you really thought you were getting a PSA 9 quality card for $65 that is worth (when I would sell it) at least $450 in PSA 9. From a seller that admittedly submits many 1993 Refractors to PSA.
<< <i>
<< <i>ok, to bring this back around to the original intent, thanks for all the comments given, both publicly in this thread and via PM. Whatever it grades, I'll be happy. The one I currently own isn't as nice, so I'll be relying on the kindness of one of my friends here to submit it for me - I've already had someone offer to help me out. If it comes back an 8, fine. If I get a grader on a happy day and he gives it a 9, which doesn't look likely, then I'll be very happy. I'm not one of those militants that gets upset if something is holdered as a 9 or 10, but in their opinion doesn't warrant such a grade. I'm perfectly happy with the number that's on the holder. Perhaps I'll resubmit once and hope for a bump, but to be honest, I'm not all that worried about it.
Geordie >>
Well,
you must be at least kinda worried about the grade, right? You had me send you a larger picture and went to all the trouble to solicit everyone's opinions on here. And, in your email to me earlier, stated that "I had probably submitted the card to PSA before anyways," this is not a correct quote, nor it is a correct paraphrase - see below which is completely unbased and -- entirely -- incorrect.
So, I can't help but think that you really thought you were getting a PSA 9 quality card for $65 that is worth (when I would sell it) at least $450 in PSA 9. From a seller that admittedly submits many 1993 Refractors to PSA. >>
hoo boy, here we go. As I stated earlier, I am NOT worried about the grade. I am a PSA novice who fairly recently began collecting graded Butlers. In an email I sent to you soon after the auction ended I asked for a larger picture for the simple purpose of posting it here so that I could get some friendly guesses from the way more knowledgeable folks here on what it might grade out. In my note to you this morning, I first thanked you for for the larger scan, adding "I didn't realize that you are jmbkb from the CU boards. I probably would have realized it if I had been paying better attention to the various '93 Finest threads there." Simple observation, nothing else intended. Three sentences later, I wrote, "I'm assuming that you sent it in and PSA didn't find it 9-worthy? I wrote this with the full knowledge that you, with the #4 '93 Finest refractor set might possibly have sent this card in for grading and found it wanting. Again, just a simple question with no ulterior motive behind it. I did not accuse; no accusation was intended. I made an assumption that was incorrect, but in no way was an accusation made. Last, was I hoping to perhaps get a great deal on a card that might grade a 9? Yeah, absolutely, wouldn't anyone? I didn't know who I was buying from, and after I figured it out, my assumption was that as an advanced '93 Finest refractor collector you might have already submitted.
Not sure why you're making an issue of this - I wasn't trying to start anything. I was just trying to pick the brains of the collective community here who have more experience with these particular cards than I do. I was actually hoping to get your advice too, before it dawned on me who I was buying from.
People here can attest that I'm a pretty friendly guy that gets along well with everyone. However, I'm feeling a little attacked, and not sure why. I wasn't attacking - that thought never entered my mind. I'm still very much looking forward to receiving the card. I now know to expect an 8, which I'll be more than satisfied with. If it ends up a 9, wonderful. To accuse me of an other motive is leaping to conclusions that were never in the discussion.
Geordie
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
If you really don't, then I apologize.
No offense was intended, and from the intended tone of my notes to you, I'm mystified as to how you took it that way. I was not insinuating anything - didn't ever enter my mnid. At any rate, no harm, no foul. Sounds like a misunderstanding that has been explained.
Geordie
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>The lady doth protest too much, methinks. >>
Irony is cool.
Idiot.
<< <i>You don't see how insinuating that I received a Brett Butler (after multiple attempts at PSA) in a PSA 8, then cracked and sold it as raw would be offensive?
If you really don't, then I apologize. >>
I don't see how that could be offensive. If it would sell for more raw than in a PSA 8 holder then you almost have to crack it. I've peddled plenty of vintage singles that I cracked out of PSA 8 holders and sold as 'NM-MT+' on Ebay with huge scans and have gotten waaayy more than PSA 8 money for a lot of them.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Cracking a card out because you don't agree with the grade or believe you can get more money for it is hardly a crime. It's done by everyone me included. But you going BALLISTIC on the OP makes me wonder if you've been taking your bipolar meds.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>You don't see how insinuating that I received a Brett Butler (after multiple attempts at PSA) in a PSA 8, then cracked and sold it as raw would be offensive?
If you really don't, then I apologize. >>
Dude --- Geordie is a great guy in these boards. You seem to be defensive and paranoid. Personally, I find it near impossible that someone who has mastered the strategy of submitting refractors to PSA would not have tried submitting that Butler card at least once. Knowing that your $30 + grading fee investment would bring $450+ if it gets the 9 --- why on earth would you not have submitted it a few times to test the waters. My gut is that you did this, didn't get the grade you wanted, and decided to dump the card on ebay to recoup all original costs.
There's nothing wrong (in my opinion) in doing this, but your paranoia and nitpicking with Geordie is just outright silly and annoying. If for whatever reason you did not ever re-submit the Butler, then (again, in my opinion) you probably should have given that you knew you could always recoup costs by selling it raw. I can't imagine anyone not thinking you'd have tried it given your expertise with refractors.
-t
------- 1960 Topps Baseball PSA 8+
------- 1985 Topps Hockey PSA 9+
<< <i>That card cannot grade higher than 7 because of it's poor centering (unless you accept a qualifier). If PSA would give it a 9 on a "good day", then PSA cannot be a trusted grading service on any day. >>
This card will never be in a PSA 9 holder. Never, ever, ever.
DBH likes to whine continually about PSA grading 1993 Refractors all over the board, but -- make no mistake about this point -- this Butler will never be a PSA 9. Its top-bottom centering is prohibitive (while most Butlers actually have worse centering). This card in a PSA 8 or PSA 9OC is the most likely outcome.
I would not and did not waste the money with PSA fees on this card.
<< <i>JMB is acting crazier and more paranoid than usual
Cracking a card out because you don't agree with the grade or believe you can get more money for it is hardly a crime. It's done by everyone me included. But you going BALLISTIC on the OP makes me wonder if you've been taking your bipolar meds. >>
Welcome to another one of my threads. Glad to have you around (again). Would you please reply to this thread? usually you reply to my threads within approximately 3-5 minutes.
As long as there are threads about 1993 refs, I'll be around so get used to it.
Whether or not this Butler will ever wind up in a 9 holder is debatable. I've seen worst 93 refs in a 9. You might have to resubmit a few times (that's why PSA made $5 modern submission specials
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Too bad you don't have the $$$ to collect the set, huh?
Bet the view is spectacular from your ultra_toys eBay ID, huh? Sell any $10 light sets recently?
And you wonder why everyone thinks you're a paranoid schizo? Look at your pathetic self go off the deep end just because everyone knows your standard operating procedure for 93 refs (AKA world's worst kept secret).
OH NOZ SOMEONE MIGHT KNOW MY EBAYZ HANDLE WHAT WILL I DO? GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD, I'LL MISS YOU ALL!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>Sounds like someone is doing some serious stalking around here! Should I be scared that you'll be placing a visit to me or something? Maybe with your Kujo1957 ebay account?
And you wonder why everyone thinks you're a paranoid schizo? Look at your pathetic self go off the deep end just because everyone knows your standard operating procedure for 93 refs (AKA world's worst kept secret).
OH NOZ SOMEONE MIGHT KNOW MY EBAYZ HANDLE WHAT WILL I DO? GOODBYE CRUEL WORLD, I'LL MISS YOU ALL!
What's gobbledegook? You sure must like those nerdy comics to spend $1,300 on one!!
<< <i>
What's gobbledegook? You sure must like those nerdy comics to spend $1,300 on one!!
Yup. It's official.
Cue the stalker music. The old boy's lost it again.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!