Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
8x and 8.5x is way too low. Silver is $13.61 an ounce. Bullion dealers are paying 9-10x face right now. Tulving is buying at 9.2x face at this moment Tulving Coin collectors are usually not up to date on current spot prices--bullion dealers are, and their buy/sell spreads change daily (even hourly). If someone is offering you 8x face--these people can take them right on down to the local bullion dealer and get 9.2x face--quick, easy profit and they didn't have to do any work. On eBay you should be able to get close to 10x face.
Nobody is going to buy it at a loss to them, even bullion dealers can sell for more than they pay. Just the nature of the beast. To make an offer, you have your time, shipping, and the neverending problem that it could drop to 7.5X by morning.....
AKA kokimoki the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt [L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
I found a pretty cool website with up to the minute melt values on circulating coins: Link to Melt value of current coinage. They even have a melt value calculator. Try it out. You enter the # of coins and select the type from a pull-down menu and it calculates the melt value of the coins that you selected.
For instance 3 rolls of silver Roosevelts is worth $145 in silver. Almost 10x value. Not bad. Link
Edited for spelling: Hey Carol, when is PCGS going to add a spell checker? It would make both of our posts more legible.
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I don't think it's necessarily wise to ship bullion products unless it's a large amount. Every city has bullion dealers or several of them littering the streets. Just drive there. No loss.
<< <i>8x and 8.5x is way too low. Silver is $13.61 an ounce. Bullion dealers are paying 9-10x face right now. Tulving is buying at 9.2x face at this moment Tulving Coin collectors are usually not up to date on current spot prices--bullion dealers are, and their buy/sell spreads change daily (even hourly). If someone is offering you 8x face--these people can take them right on down to the local bullion dealer and get 9.2x face--quick, easy profit and they didn't have to do any work. On eBay you should be able to get close to 10x face. >>
The 9.2x buy rate is for solid $1000 bags. Small quantities (the original poster specified $10 face) have to get a lower rate. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
LOL, no they don't have to get a lower rate. Like I said, I deal in bullion all the time--I've never received less for less, that doesn't make sense. Then again, I don't ship them to internet businesses. I take them to the bullion dealer (brick and mortar). He buys all quantities.
<< <i>LOL, no they don't have to get a lower rate. Like I said, I deal in bullion all the time--I've never received less for less, that doesn't make sense. Then again, I don't ship them to internet businesses. I take them to the bullion dealer (brick and mortar). He buys all quantities. >>
Just so you know, CaptHenway is a coin dealer....
Great transaction with: Relaxn, Collectorcoins, OKCC
<< <i>LOL, no they don't have to get a lower rate. Like I said, I deal in bullion all the time--I've never received less for less, that doesn't make sense. Then again, I don't ship them to internet businesses. I take them to the bullion dealer (brick and mortar). He buys all quantities. >>
Just so you know, CaptHenway is a coin dealer.... >>
Good. Coin dealers are not bullion dealers. I don't care what a coin dealer is willing to pay for a cull morgan--if the bullion dealers offer a better price, why should I? Give me a break! 9.2x face is the least I would accept for 90% silver. Why? Because it's worth that much in the metals market and that is not determined by "who wants to pay what for what" or emotion, it's a set rate, it's science.
<< <i>Good. Coin dealers are not bullion dealers. I don't care what a coin dealer is willing to pay for a cull morgan--if the bullion dealers offer a better price, why should I? Give me a break! 9.2x face is the least I would accept for 90% silver. Why? Because it's worth that much in the metals market and that is not determined by "who wants to pay what for what" or emotion, it's a set rate, it's science. >>
Come on now. Even strictly "bullion" dealers can vary on their markup and price offered. If not, where is the cpmpetition?? I agree however that they are different creatures than strictly "coin dealers" and can offer a better price.
AKA kokimoki the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt [L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
<< <i>LOL, no they don't have to get a lower rate. Like I said, I deal in bullion all the time--I've never received less for less, that doesn't make sense. Then again, I don't ship them to internet businesses. I take them to the bullion dealer (brick and mortar). He buys all quantities. >>
Ever buy a case of warm soda pop at Sam's Club? Ever buy a single cold one down at the Seven-Eleven? I'll bet you didn't pay the same rate per can. LOL TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It's not the same thing, because there is no bulk manufacture discount on the secondary market for bullion. I don't know why you guys are fighting this point when many of you admittedly don't buy bullion or haven't dealt with this side of the industry. Some internet dealers won't buy less than a set quantity--that's understandable, but that's not the same everywhere and certainly not at brick and mortar shops. As for selling prices, you might get cut a small deal on large quantity, but usually that is only because you're buying a larger bar that has a lower production cost per ounce than the 1 ounce rounds. I have never been cheated at my dealer based on the amount I sell. I've walked in with $15 worth when I was desperate for cigarette money, and I've walked in with $1000--it didn't matter, and it shouldn't matter, because we get out the calculator and figure up the exchange rate. It's just like exchanging foreign currency. Do you get "bulk discounts" when buying rolls of quarters from the bank? Of course not.
What percentage of melt does he pay you, and what formula do you use to calculate it? . Also, how much do you sell over the course of a year? We have a guy we lay stuff off to, and because we do a large volume with him he gives me his best rate whether I sell him a quarter of a bag or five bags. However, if one of the smaller local shops sells him a quarter of a bag once in a blue moon, he will get less and he knows that.
If somebody comes in and sells me $10 face in silver, I have to take the time to fill out a reporting form for the city. If somebody come in and sells me $500 face, I have to fill out the same form. I'd rather fill out one or two or three forms than fifty forms to accumulate a full bag I can sell. That is why I pay a higher rate for quantity.
By the way, the largest check we wrote for bullion last year was $450,000. On that we were happy to negotiate the best rate possible.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I've always had difficulty finding a local bullion dealer. Who would they be in St. Louis or Kansas City? >>
Try Dianna's Vault in SL. 9321 Midland Blvd
In downtown, we must have 10 bullion dealers lined up on the street, within 1 mile of each other. That may not be true for other cities and if not, I can see how your regional differences can relate a completely different experience. But silver is still a commodity (the bullion, not the numismatic coins), and like oranges or oil, the commodity price changes daily and it's a set amount. Negotiations can happen, but they rarely ever waiver much from the market price. There are some dealers who are uninterested in buying from walk-ins, they want large quantities. Again, if you look around you'll see places that cater to the niche market of people who have scrap to sell. Jewelry stores are an option. I haven't sold in a while, so I don't know the spread at my particular shop, because it changes daily. Back when silver was around $5.50 an ounce, I sold some eagles for close to $7.00. The buy/sell spread was something like $6.90/$7.50. They paid a premium for the eagles because they also sold the eagles on the secondary market. Some bullion dealers send the eagles right to the melter--so they would likely pay melt with no premium. I don't believe 90% bags receive any premium, perhaps a small discount to melt. In any event, it's important to know these spreads and find a place where you can quickly liquidate your bullion--when you do, you can then decide if it's advantageous to purchase cull coins from others at below that rate and turn a quick profit, and also you'll avoid making the mistake of having someone "take them off your hands" at 8x face, when you could easily get more if you do your homework.
<< <i>I've always had difficulty finding a local bullion dealer. Who would they be in St. Louis or Kansas City? >>
In St. Louis, try:
Scotsman Coins 11262 Olive Blvd. St. Louis, MO 63141 (800) 642-4305
Fine people. John Woodside, the owner, is a member of the PNG. Tell them that Harlan J. Berk, Ltd. in Chicago sent you.
Just for the record, let us know what percent back of melt he offers for silver, and in what form, or what percent over melt he offers to sell it at, and in what form.
Tom DeLorey
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I've always had difficulty finding a local bullion dealer. Who would they be in St. Louis or Kansas City? >>
Try Dianna's Vault in SL. 9321 Midland Blvd
In downtown, we must have 10 bullion dealers lined up on the street, within 1 mile of each other. That may not be true for other cities and if not, I can see how your regional differences can relate a completely different experience. But silver is still a commodity (the bullion, not the numismatic coins), and like oranges or oil, the commodity price changes daily and it's a set amount. Negotiations can happen, but they rarely ever waiver much from the market price. There are some dealers who are uninterested in buying from walk-ins, they want large quantities. Again, if you look around you'll see places that cater to the niche market of people who have scrap to sell. Jewelry stores are an option. I haven't sold in a while, so I don't know the spread at my particular shop, because it changes daily. Back when silver was around $5.50 an ounce, I sold some eagles for close to $7.00. The buy/sell spread was something like $6.90/$7.50. They paid a premium for the eagles because they also sold the eagles on the secondary market. Some bullion dealers send the eagles right to the melter--so they would likely pay melt with no premium. I don't believe 90% bags receive any premium, perhaps a small discount to melt. In any event, it's important to know these spreads and find a place where you can quickly liquidate your bullion--when you do, you can then decide if it's advantageous to purchase cull coins from others at below that rate and turn a quick profit, and also you'll avoid making the mistake of having someone "take them off your hands" at 8x face, when you could easily get more if you do your homework. >>
How do you buy silver eagles at melt and send them to a refiner, who pays you less than melt, and make any money?
Inquiring minds want to know.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It was a figure of speech. Bullion dealers who pay only spot for eagles probably trade them in those circles without acknowledging the premiums they bring in the coin market. Most do pay premiums over spot. ACCEPT NO LESS THAN SPOT PRICE FOR A COIN--I don't know where you got the idea that they pay discounts to a set commodity price. That is entirely untrue. Melt value is melt value, period.
<< <i>It was a figure of speech. Bullion dealers who pay only spot for eagles probably trade them in those circles without acknowledging the premiums they bring in the coin market. Most do pay premiums over spot. ACCEPT NO LESS THAN SPOT PRICE FOR A COIN--I don't know where you got the idea that they pay discounts to a set commodity price. That is entirely untrue. Melt value is melt value, period. >>
If you can name a refiner that will consistently pay full melt value for metal received, the world will beat a path to his door. That is entirely true.
Please do not mislead people with inaccurate figures of speech. You have to buy commodities for less than you can sell them for to remain in business. At the current, relatively high spot price for silver, we buy in far more silver than we sell at retail. I have tried offering some of our former silver buyers bags of U.S. 90% silver at melt, and they are not buyers at these levels.
The surplus must end up at a refinery. The refiners pay us less than melt to cover their expenses. We have to discount it a little bit more than that to make a profit. I learned that in Economics 101 back in 1969. It still holds true today.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Spot silver = 13.50 Our 90% buy price = 8.88x Face and our 90% sell price = 9.60x Face, in quantites. For Eagles, if any dealer pays a set price over silver, they will soon find themselves loosing money. Silver Eagles, like all collector coins, are bought and sold based on rarity of grade and date. For instance, we pay a premium for fresh, original rolls, and an even bigger premium for original cases. Now, if someone comes in with a packaged Silver Eagles that require sissors to get them out, we would almost rather not buy them at all. The same for a Silver Eagle with obvious nicks, etc.
Sure, someone might be able to get a higher dollar amount by jumping through a bunch of hoops, but most people's time is more valuable than that.
Hey John, do you get those same ads down in the St. Louis papers that we get up here in Chicago offering to sell a 1/10 oz. gold eagle for a buck or two over melt, so that they can telemarket you to death for the next five years?
What do you tell the people who come in and expect you to meet the stupid loss-leader price?
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
mrbud60
Posts: 171
Comments
Dave
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Freak
"La Vostra Nonna Ha Faccia Del Fungo"
Tulving
Coin collectors are usually not up to date on current spot prices--bullion dealers are, and their buy/sell spreads change daily (even hourly). If someone is offering you 8x face--these people can take them right on down to the local bullion dealer and get 9.2x face--quick, easy profit and they didn't have to do any work. On eBay you should be able to get close to 10x face.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms
To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt
[L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
For instance 3 rolls of silver Roosevelts is worth $145 in silver. Almost 10x value. Not bad. Link
Edited for spelling: Hey Carol, when is PCGS going to add a spell checker? It would make both of our posts more legible.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
<< <i>8x and 8.5x is way too low. Silver is $13.61 an ounce. Bullion dealers are paying 9-10x face right now. Tulving is buying at 9.2x face at this moment
Tulving
Coin collectors are usually not up to date on current spot prices--bullion dealers are, and their buy/sell spreads change daily (even hourly). If someone is offering you 8x face--these people can take them right on down to the local bullion dealer and get 9.2x face--quick, easy profit and they didn't have to do any work. On eBay you should be able to get close to 10x face. >>
The 9.2x buy rate is for solid $1000 bags. Small quantities (the original poster specified $10 face) have to get a lower rate.
TD
<< <i>LOL, no they don't have to get a lower rate. Like I said, I deal in bullion all the time--I've never received less for less, that doesn't make sense. Then again, I don't ship them to internet businesses. I take them to the bullion dealer (brick and mortar). He buys all quantities. >>
Just so you know, CaptHenway is a coin dealer....
<< <i>
<< <i>LOL, no they don't have to get a lower rate. Like I said, I deal in bullion all the time--I've never received less for less, that doesn't make sense. Then again, I don't ship them to internet businesses. I take them to the bullion dealer (brick and mortar). He buys all quantities. >>
Just so you know, CaptHenway is a coin dealer.... >>
Good. Coin dealers are not bullion dealers. I don't care what a coin dealer is willing to pay for a cull morgan--if the bullion dealers offer a better price, why should I? Give me a break! 9.2x face is the least I would accept for 90% silver. Why? Because it's worth that much in the metals market and that is not determined by "who wants to pay what for what" or emotion, it's a set rate, it's science.
<< <i>Good. Coin dealers are not bullion dealers. I don't care what a coin dealer is willing to pay for a cull morgan--if the bullion dealers offer a better price, why should I? Give me a break! 9.2x face is the least I would accept for 90% silver. Why? Because it's worth that much in the metals market and that is not determined by "who wants to pay what for what" or emotion, it's a set rate, it's science. >>
Come on now. Even strictly "bullion" dealers can vary on their markup and price offered. If not, where is the cpmpetition?? I agree however that they are different creatures than strictly "coin dealers" and can offer a better price.
the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed
Join the NRA and protect YOUR right to keep and bear arms
To protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart. Theodore Roosevelt
[L]http://www.ourfallensoldier.com/ThompsonMichaelE_MemorialPage.html[L]
<< <i>LOL, no they don't have to get a lower rate. Like I said, I deal in bullion all the time--I've never received less for less, that doesn't make sense. Then again, I don't ship them to internet businesses. I take them to the bullion dealer (brick and mortar). He buys all quantities. >>
Ever buy a case of warm soda pop at Sam's Club?
Ever buy a single cold one down at the Seven-Eleven?
I'll bet you didn't pay the same rate per can.
LOL
TD
.
Also, how much do you sell over the course of a year? We have a guy we lay stuff off to, and because we do a large volume with him he gives me his best rate whether I sell him a quarter of a bag or five bags. However, if one of the smaller local shops sells him a quarter of a bag once in a blue moon, he will get less and he knows that.
If somebody comes in and sells me $10 face in silver, I have to take the time to fill out a reporting form for the city. If somebody come in and sells me $500 face, I have to fill out the same form. I'd rather fill out one or two or three forms than fifty forms to accumulate a full bag I can sell. That is why I pay a higher rate for quantity.
By the way, the largest check we wrote for bullion last year was $450,000. On that we were happy to negotiate the best rate possible.
I knew it would happen.
You should get 9x without a problem on Ebay. I buy it myself but $10 is a little too low to take time with.
<< <i>I've always had difficulty finding a local bullion dealer. Who would they be in St. Louis or Kansas City? >>
Try Dianna's Vault in SL.
9321 Midland Blvd
In downtown, we must have 10 bullion dealers lined up on the street, within 1 mile of each other. That may not be true for other cities and if not, I can see how your regional differences can relate a completely different experience. But silver is still a commodity (the bullion, not the numismatic coins), and like oranges or oil, the commodity price changes daily and it's a set amount. Negotiations can happen, but they rarely ever waiver much from the market price. There are some dealers who are uninterested in buying from walk-ins, they want large quantities. Again, if you look around you'll see places that cater to the niche market of people who have scrap to sell. Jewelry stores are an option. I haven't sold in a while, so I don't know the spread at my particular shop, because it changes daily. Back when silver was around $5.50 an ounce, I sold some eagles for close to $7.00. The buy/sell spread was something like $6.90/$7.50. They paid a premium for the eagles because they also sold the eagles on the secondary market. Some bullion dealers send the eagles right to the melter--so they would likely pay melt with no premium. I don't believe 90% bags receive any premium, perhaps a small discount to melt. In any event, it's important to know these spreads and find a place where you can quickly liquidate your bullion--when you do, you can then decide if it's advantageous to purchase cull coins from others at below that rate and turn a quick profit, and also you'll avoid making the mistake of having someone "take them off your hands" at 8x face, when you could easily get more if you do your homework.
<< <i>I've always had difficulty finding a local bullion dealer. Who would they be in St. Louis or Kansas City? >>
In St. Louis, try:
Scotsman Coins
11262 Olive Blvd.
St. Louis, MO 63141
(800) 642-4305
Fine people. John Woodside, the owner, is a member of the PNG. Tell them that Harlan J. Berk, Ltd. in Chicago sent you.
Just for the record, let us know what percent back of melt he offers for silver, and in what form, or what percent over melt he offers to sell it at, and in what form.
Tom DeLorey
<< <i>
<< <i>I've always had difficulty finding a local bullion dealer. Who would they be in St. Louis or Kansas City? >>
Try Dianna's Vault in SL.
9321 Midland Blvd
In downtown, we must have 10 bullion dealers lined up on the street, within 1 mile of each other. That may not be true for other cities and if not, I can see how your regional differences can relate a completely different experience. But silver is still a commodity (the bullion, not the numismatic coins), and like oranges or oil, the commodity price changes daily and it's a set amount. Negotiations can happen, but they rarely ever waiver much from the market price. There are some dealers who are uninterested in buying from walk-ins, they want large quantities. Again, if you look around you'll see places that cater to the niche market of people who have scrap to sell. Jewelry stores are an option. I haven't sold in a while, so I don't know the spread at my particular shop, because it changes daily. Back when silver was around $5.50 an ounce, I sold some eagles for close to $7.00. The buy/sell spread was something like $6.90/$7.50. They paid a premium for the eagles because they also sold the eagles on the secondary market. Some bullion dealers send the eagles right to the melter--so they would likely pay melt with no premium. I don't believe 90% bags receive any premium, perhaps a small discount to melt. In any event, it's important to know these spreads and find a place where you can quickly liquidate your bullion--when you do, you can then decide if it's advantageous to purchase cull coins from others at below that rate and turn a quick profit, and also you'll avoid making the mistake of having someone "take them off your hands" at 8x face, when you could easily get more if you do your homework. >>
How do you buy silver eagles at melt and send them to a refiner, who pays you less than melt, and make any money?
Inquiring minds want to know.
TD
<< <i>It was a figure of speech. Bullion dealers who pay only spot for eagles probably trade them in those circles without acknowledging the premiums they bring in the coin market. Most do pay premiums over spot. ACCEPT NO LESS THAN SPOT PRICE FOR A COIN--I don't know where you got the idea that they pay discounts to a set commodity price. That is entirely untrue. Melt value is melt value, period. >>
If you can name a refiner that will consistently pay full melt value for metal received, the world will beat a path to his door. That is entirely true.
Please do not mislead people with inaccurate figures of speech. You have to buy commodities for less than you can sell them for to remain in business. At the current, relatively high spot price for silver, we buy in far more silver than we sell at retail. I have tried offering some of our former silver buyers bags of U.S. 90% silver at melt, and they are not buyers at these levels.
The surplus must end up at a refinery. The refiners pay us less than melt to cover their expenses. We have to discount it a little bit more than that to make a profit. I learned that in Economics 101 back in 1969. It still holds true today.
TD
Spot silver = 13.50
Our 90% buy price = 8.88x Face and our 90% sell price = 9.60x Face, in quantites.
For Eagles, if any dealer pays a set price over silver, they will soon find themselves loosing money. Silver Eagles, like all collector coins, are bought and sold based on rarity of grade and date. For instance, we pay a premium for fresh, original rolls, and an even bigger premium for original cases. Now, if someone comes in with a packaged Silver Eagles that require sissors to get them out, we would almost rather not buy them at all. The same for a Silver Eagle with obvious nicks, etc.
Sure, someone might be able to get a higher dollar amount by jumping through a bunch of hoops, but most people's time is more valuable than that.
John
Scotsman
What do you tell the people who come in and expect you to meet the stupid loss-leader price?
TD