NGC population data far from complete. :(

coinpictures

Posted across the street, but relevant here:

Last year I had mentioned to NGC that I found the online population data for world coins to be extremely incomplete. I received a response touting how frequently things were now being updated and that there were new programming tools speeding up the process, etc., and "There are many fewer omissions than you might suspect, and a 100% inclusive Census is our goal. It is not far off."

Au contraire.

(Keep in mind that this was back in September 2006.)

Last night I finally got around to verifying the cert numbers and checking population data on all the NGC-graded world coins in my collection as well as ones recently sold. The 41 coins below are NOT in the population data.

That is a staggering number to me, given the relatively small size of my collection. If there are that many coins in my personal collection not showing up, there literally must be thousands of coins that have been omitted from the population data.

Very disconcerting.

Austria 1 Heller 1901 NGC MS66 BN 1880363-013
Belgian Congo 5 Centimes 1887 NGC MS65 BN 2750338-022
Belgian Congo 5 Cents 1888/7 NGC MS63 BN 1878047-001
Belgium 1 Franc 1867 NGC XF45 1282427-003
Belgium 5 Francs 1869 NGC AU55 2750634-004
Breslau 3 Kreuzer 1670 SHS NGC MS64 2751317-002
British Honduras 5 Cents 1936 NGC MS65 548520-001
British North Borneo 1Cent 1891 H NGC MS65 BN 1521589-003
British West Africa 1 Penny 1936 KN NGC MS66 2750388-017
Ceylon 5 Cents 1870 NGC MS62 BN 2047561-005
Chile 1 Peso 1885 SO NGC MS63 1755720-017
Chile 10 Centavos 1941 NGC MS67 1728021-004
Costa Rica 50 Centimos 1923 over 1893 NGC MS65 2750904-031
Fiji 1 Penny 1936 NGC MS66 2750387-021
Great Britain 1 Penny 1806 NGC MS64 BN PL 1520833-010
Great Britain 1/2 Penny 1770 NGC MS64 BN PL 1520843-002
Great Britain 1/3 Farthing 1844 NGC MS63 BN (5% curved clip) 1879857-003
Guatemala 1/2 Real CS 1894 on 1893 NGC MS64 2751145-007
Hungary 5 Pengo Klippe 1929 BP NGC PF68 CAMEO 1944042-002
India 1 Rupee 1840C KM 458.2 NGC MS62 2751317-011
Lebanon 1 Piastre 1955 NGC MS66 1879137-008
Liberia 2 Cents 1868 Pattern KM-PN16 NGC PF64 BN CAMEO 1522706-026
Liberia 2 Cents 1890 Pattern KM-PN54 NGC PF66 RB 1522707-017
Mozambique 2 Reis 1853 NGC MS62 BN 1521376-013
Muhlhausen 6 Pfennig 1767/6 NGC MS62 2751317-017
Netherlands 1/2 Cent 1883 NGC AU58 BN 2751317-018
Netherlands 2.5 Cents 1883 NGC MS66 BN 1906775-020
New Zealand 20 Cents 1977 NGC PF69 ULTRA CAMEO 2750598-006
New Zealand 3 Pence 1942 NGC MS66 1907924-003
Portuguese India 1/2 Rupia 1936 NGC MS65 2085900-009
Portuguese India 1/2 Rupia 1947 NGC MS65 1811137-011
Saudi Arabia 25 H AH1408 NGC PF65 1520860-012
Saxony 1/6 Thaler 1865 B NGC MS66 1879616-003
Schwyz 1 Alba 1838 NGC MS63 BN 1906141-003
Seychelles 25 Cents 1951 NGC MS66 2750337-049
Sweden 2 Kroner 1897 EB NGC MS63 1879637-004
Sweden 5 Kronor 1935 G NGC MS64 1757055-009
Sweden 5 Ore 1922 NGC MS61 BN 1755720-003
Tunisia 1/4 Kharub AH1281 NGC PF67 RD 1520868-009
Tunisia Kharub AH 1281 NGC SP66 RD 1757055-005
Vaud 1 Franc 1845 NGC AU55 704386-003

Preussen

<< <i>Very disconcerting. >>


I agree that if the grading services are going to maintain population reports they should be accurate, but "very disconcerting" ? Maybe I'm alone in this view, but it isn't much of a concern to me. I find darkside population reports "interesting," but even if they were perfect I would never rely on them as indicative of the number of quality coins that exist around the world. Surely only a small percentage of world coins have been slabbed, so what do pop reports really tell you about the rarity of a particular coin? I'd guess they're much more important for US coins, as the majority of the good stuff has probably already been slabbed. Not so with darkside. Just my 2¢ - Preussen

theboz11

If you only buy 70's there is no problem, none are graded higher and who really cares about imperfect coins

coinpictures

<< <i>

<< <i>Very disconcerting. >>


I agree that if the grading services are going to maintain population reports they should be accurate, but "very disconcerting" ? Maybe I'm alone in this view, but it isn't much of a concern to me. I find darkside population reports "interesting," but even if they were perfect I would never rely on them as indicative of the number of quality coins that exist around the world. Surely only a small percentage of world coins have been slabbed, so what do pop reports really tell you about the rarity of a particular coin? I'd guess they're much more important for US coins, as the majority of the good stuff has probably already been slabbed. Not so with darkside. Just my 2¢ - Preussen >>



Disoncerting in that I (perhaps foolishly) took at face value NGC's claims as to the completeness of the population data, when in fact there are holes large enough to drive a Mac truck through. That's what's disconcerting.

I agree that the PCGS and NGC population reports are only a small subset of the coins "in play" worldwide, but more information is always better, and given NGC's apparent lack of ability or commitment to getting the data up to date makes me wonder about their data infrastructure. Updating the population data, even if it's only weekly or monthly, let alone real time, should not be rocket science if they have anyone even remotely competent handling their database(s).

ajaan

They still don't have ANY Thai coins in their Census. I had a Thai coin graded last October.

SYRACUSIAN

Lebanon 1 Piastre 1955 NGC MS66 1879137-008



I believe that this is no longer yours anyway.

coinpictures

D... D... D... reading comprehension appears to be a lost art.

Last night I finally got around to verifying the cert numbers and checking population data on all the NGC-graded world coins in my collection as well as ones recently sold.

Just for that, your pics are going to be 10 pixels x 10 pixels.

IstilllikeZARcoins

Population reports are bound to be inaccurate anyway given the large amount of slabs that Ajaan cracks open.

3Mark

Dan:

The interesting thing about your research is there are no German coins missing. I have a few Germans that are missing and the most interesting thing about them, is that they (missing ones) are on one submission that most are listed. I emailed the information to NGC last year, but they still do not show up. BTW, I have a few from PCGS that are not listed either.3Mark

coinpictures

<< <i>Dan:

The interesting thing about your research is there are no German coins missing. I have a few Germans that are missing and the most interesting thing about them, is that they (missing ones) are on one submission that most are listed. I emailed the information to NGC last year, but they still do not show up. BTW, I have a few from PCGS that are not listed either.3Mark >>



My data might be a little light when it comes to German coins, since I own more PCGS-slabbed German pieces than NGC...

What really surprised me is that not all of the omitted countries are minor or obscure. I can understand NGC having not gotten around to Belgian Congo or Fiji yet, but Austria? Belgium? Netherlands?

Also, it appears (sheer speculation) that on major countries, e.g., Great Britain, their system won't automatically import/update coins with extra designations. It appears to bypass them. I must have 20+ NGC slabbed British pieces, and the 3 that were missed included 2 PLs and an error coin.

Avarel

Interesting topic given I just experienced a different side of census information. I'm entertaining the purchase of a specific coin from a country a bit off the beaten path, and the coin resides in a country I've never dealt with before but its slabbed. If it had been raw, I'm not sure I would be entertaining it. So I go to NGC to get some additional information and just confirm that the dark pic of the coin in the slab I got is correct. NGC's census doesnt even list the denomination for that country in that year and I cant find some sort of certification verifier online like PCGS has that I've used to confirm what I was seeing was indeed the coin. I was rather surprised by customer service when they said you had to pay to see NGC's verification tool, but they did check the number to confirm for me that yes its completely correct.

I appreciate PCGS allowing me to verify a slab when I want off the website, and I think its ridiculous it needs to be paid for at NGC. Given they dont update the census, it just created more distrust for me on this coin and that dealer, especially when he made a point of saying he was the submitter. Your information CP just reinforces that company obviously doesnt care. If companies are going to even post census or population reports as a service point, they need to take it seriously and update. They obviously take the cert vertification seriously, so I dont understand how that information could not populate another database rather streamlessly.

Okay, back into the shadows until I nab this coin...

Av

coinpictures

<< <i>NGC's census doesnt even list the denomination for that country in that year and I cant find some sort of certification verifier online like PCGS has that I've used to confirm what I was seeing was indeed the coin. I was rather surprised by customer service when they said you had to pay to see NGC's verification tool, but they did check the number to confirm for me that yes its completely correct. >>



You can verify any NGC cert number online if you're a member of their "Collector's Club" (which I joined last year in order to submit to NGC).

worldcoinguy

I have never had much luck finding Austrian or German State talers, but now I see that I am not alone. I only find 1 out of 16 of my NGC talers in my collection.

The only one that I have found in the census is:
1781 Taler - Salzburg - NGC MS-64 - DAV-1263