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Downgrades at NGC and PCGS.
ronday
Posts: 79
I bought a NGC 2005D OceanView Nickel, MS69 SMS.
The coin had a 3/16 mark across the forhead, easily seen by anyone with normal vision, and even by some with poor vision.
I sent the coin in for downgrade, since it is worthless in a MS69 holder.
It took less than a week for NGC to contact me to let me know that they would be returning the coin to me in the original holder. Grade stands. Fee Applies.
The Cusomer Service Clerk that called me said that YES, he could see the mark, but he had taken it back to a "Grader" who confirmed the grade.
Ahem, grade guarantee?
I would have posted this over there, but the last time I questioned their proceedures (I asked if they used any chemicals to prepare the coins for grading, maybe a stupid question, but I had my reasons for asking) they deleted my post and suspended my account.
The coin had a 3/16 mark across the forhead, easily seen by anyone with normal vision, and even by some with poor vision.
I sent the coin in for downgrade, since it is worthless in a MS69 holder.
It took less than a week for NGC to contact me to let me know that they would be returning the coin to me in the original holder. Grade stands. Fee Applies.
The Cusomer Service Clerk that called me said that YES, he could see the mark, but he had taken it back to a "Grader" who confirmed the grade.
Ahem, grade guarantee?
I would have posted this over there, but the last time I questioned their proceedures (I asked if they used any chemicals to prepare the coins for grading, maybe a stupid question, but I had my reasons for asking) they deleted my post and suspended my account.
0
Comments
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
In the same order I had 2 SMS coins come back as MS and they corrected a 1893 quarter to the correct date of 1892 under their mechanical error program.
The coin had a 3/16 mark across the forhead, easily seen by anyone with normal vision, and even by some with poor vision.
I take it you bought the coin sight unseen with no return privilege? Sounds like that was your first mistake!
Most Ebay sellers do not offer returns on NGC and PCGS graded coins. Why should they? the grading companies "supposedly" guarantee the grade! On UltraModern MS69's you should not see that big of a difference from one coin to the next. I have been looking now though!
<< <i>I bought it off ebay, never really examined it that closely until it was WAY too late to return.
Most Ebay sellers do not offer returns on NGC and PCGS graded coins. Why should they? the grading companies "supposedly" guarantee the grade! On UltraModern MS69's you should not see that big of a difference from one coin to the next. I have been looking now though! >>
any dealer that does not offer returns is a dealer to avoid. I don't care where they do business.
People on Ebay who do not offer returns are just trying to "stick" people with bad coins. AVOID!
<< <i>People on Ebay who do not offer returns are just trying to "stick" people with bad coins. AVOID! >>
JB
This is somewhat HS I believe. Many Ebay sellers just do not care for Tire Kickers and do not give them a chance to kick.
As far as the coin in this thread. Better concentrate and keep your eyes wide open from now on. By the way why did you put PCGS in the title when this thread about a NGC slabbed coin has nothing to do with PCGS ?
Ken
<< <i>
<< <i>People on Ebay who do not offer returns are just trying to "stick" people with bad coins. AVOID! >>
JB
This is somewhat HS I believe. Many Ebay sellers just do not care for Tire Kickers and do not give them a chance to kick.
As far as the coin in this thread. Better concentrate and keep your eyes wide open from now on. By the way why did you put PCGS in the title when this thread about a NGC slabbed coin has nothing to do with PCGS ?
Ken >>
First, this thread is about grade guarantees, and weather they mean anything or not. Your suggestion that I should be more vigilant and not expect coin grading companies to fulfill their written obligations to back up their product is bizzarr at best and downright HS at worst.
Second, I included PCGS for a reason the will become clear within the next week or so.
You have to recognize that only the worst offenders are gonna get taken out of the holder at their cost. That's just the way it is. So it's important you protect yourself by buying from reputable sellers sight seen and at least looking at the coin when you get it!
<< <i>First, this thread is about grade guarantees, and weather they mean anything or not. Your suggestion that I should be more vigilant and not expect coin grading companies to fulfill their written obligations to back up their product is bizzarr at best and downright HS at worst. >>
So, you as a collector has no obligation to check and look at what you are buying ? Trying to dump your mistake on a TPG constantly is total HS. Open your eyes. Attitudes like yours and poor judgement is exactly why I left your forum.
Can't wait to see your rant about the PCGS guarantee. I'll be watching.
Ken
<< <i> So, you as a collector has no obligation to check and look at what you are buying ? Trying to dump your mistake on a TPG constantly is total HS. Open your eyes. Attitudes like yours and poor judgement is exactly why I left your forum. Can't wait to see your rant about the PCGS guarantee. I'll be watching.
Ken >>
I am not sure what I did to offend you, but after your last post I am sure I do not regret it.
Please defend your position by explaning what exactly is the guarantee for if not to protect those who would buy their coins sight unseen?
I am not in the habit of returning coins. In fact this is the first of hundreds of coins I have purchased that I feel strongly enough about to return.
Nobody twisted the grading companies arms and forced them to offer a guarantee. Did they?
Your implication that I am doing something wrong to insist that a company do what they promise, IN WRITING, requires more mental gymnastics than a whole circus of monkeys are capable of preforming in a month.
Ranting? I am, and have been on topic. You are the one that has attempted to derail a genuine attempt at discourse by being rude and off topic.
If you have nothing constructive or usefull to say, why don't you just go back to blowing bubbles and making faces at yourself in the mirror.
It would seem to me that MS69 is not perfect. Those perfect ones would say MS70 on the holder.
This thread is funny.
A guy with less than 50 posts asking "I am not sure who you are," for a guy with over 8800.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>or your monkey kin >>
<< <i>preforming >>
Is that something "monkey kin" do?
<< <i>I would agree that an MS69 should not have a prominent tick. Perhaps it is a planchet void? However, I also think that responsibility falls upon each of us not to buy sight unseen, but if we do then to live with our mistakes. >>
You are the second person on this thread to expouse this position. Please defend it by explaining a legit use of the "Grade Guarantee"?
Without an explanation of why they provide this "Guarantee" your position is without merit.
Reply to Fcloud: He made reference to having been a registered member of my coin forum. He must have logged on with a different name there, as such I do not know who he is in relation to his reference to my site.
I won't be able to take a picture of the coin until sunday. At that time I will post a photo and you can make a determination for yourself.
Of if you happen to be at the parsipany coin show this sunday, you can see the coin in person.
I am not hard to spot, 6'2" thin with a beard and a brown cowboy hat ( actually it is an akubra, but most people don't know the difference )
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>This must be one of those examples Laura always talks about. People paying too much for modern stuff. I guess if it is simply a new nickel the vaule must be some where in the five cent range. >>
Where do you think all the Gem coins that survive today came from? They came from people like me that ignored the ridicule of their peers and collected the finest examples of the coinage of the day for preservation.
If no one can stay on topic or defend their point of view, then I suppose what I have heard about you guys is true. I was hoping for better.
1) You bought an NGC graded coin MS69 SMS.
2) You sent the coin back to NGC for their opinion a second time.
3) They stated the coin meets their grading standard.
4) You are upset with them so you come to the PCGS website to complain about NGC (Both top tier grading companies--Oh, I've probably been called a Kool-Aid drinker somewhere along the line).
5) You are upset with the people here because some of us don't agree with you.
6) Conveniently you cannot post a photo to show what you are complaining about.
7) You stated they kicked you off their boards, so you are upset with PCGS why?
8) Do a search on these boards and you will find examples of people getting replacement coins when PCGS downgraded their coins.
8a) You will also find examples of people getting cash back when their coins downgraded.
8b) You will find even more examples of people getting the difference back on their downgrades.
9) PCGS has put up with more people insulting their company on these boards than I can count over the years, yet they keep the boards open.
I don't understand your complaint with PCGS (with NGC either).
When I was a little boy, my grandpa told me, "You get what you pay for."
Let me know if that is enough for you, I'm sure I could come up with some other reasons, too.
Have a great day.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>If you have nothing constructive or usefull to say, why don't you just go back to blowing bubbles and making faces at yourself in the mirror. >>
And I am the one that is being rude ? Remember that all I suggested is that from now on keep your eyes open, check your purchases and take responsibility for your actions. You could have returned the coin to the seller but you choose not to. Now that NGC does not agree with your limited experience opinion you think you have got shafted. I wish I would have known as much as you think you know after only a couple of years in the hobby.
Like a couple of others have suggested. Rack this up to experience and move on.
And as far as the people on this site. You have Sugar Coaters, probably who you want to hear from on this coin, and you have people that will give you the stark truth, people you seem to not want to hear from.
Cheers.
Ken
<< <i> 1) You bought an NGC graded coin MS69 SMS. >>
True, but not a defense of your position
<< <i> 2) You sent the coin back to NGC for their opinion a second time. >>
Also true, but not a defense of your position
<< <i> 3) They stated the coin meets their grading standard. >>
Again, true, still not a defense of your position.
<< <i> 4) You are upset with them so you come to the PCGS website to complain about NGC (Both top tier grading companies--Oh, I've probably been called a Kool-Aid drinker somewhere along the line). >>
Not true and off the topic. Your kool-aid reference is duly noted.
<< <i> 5) You are upset with the people here because some of us don't agree with you. >>
I am not upset with the people here, but if you don't think modern coins should be covered by grade guarantee you should just come out and say it and explain why.
<< <i> 6) Conveniently you cannot post a photo to show what you are complaining about. >>
It is not convenient, it is inconvenient. As I stated in an earlier post I will post pictures when I get home and have access to my Camera.
<< <i> 7) You stated they kicked you off their boards, so you are upset with PCGS why? >>
Again off topic and untrue. I was suspended for a week - not kicked off. I am not upset with PCGS. Not that either of these things has anything to do with the topic at hand.
<< <i> 8) Do a search on these boards and you will find examples of people getting replacement coins when PCGS downgraded their coins. >>
<< <i> 8a) You will also find examples of people getting cash back when their coins downgraded. >>
<< <i> 8b) You will find even more examples of people getting the difference back on their downgrades. >>
This supports the notion that PCGS honors their grade guarantee, but does not support your contention that I should not persue a grade guarantee for an inferior coin. I am still waiting for anything here that pertains to that subject.
<< <i> 9) PCGS has put up with more people insulting their company on these boards than I can count over the years, yet they keep the boards open. >>
That is nice to know, is there a point here?
<< <i> I don't understand your complaint with PCGS (with NGC either). >>
As of yet I do not have a complaint with PCGS, as for NGC, if you wait till sunday evening you can make your own determination as to the validity of my complaint.
<< <i> When I was a little boy, my grandpa told me, "You get what you pay for."
Let me know if that is enough for you, I'm sure I could come up with some other reasons, too.
Have a great day. >>
It is good to know that you had the chance to know your grandpa, but I paid for a coin that supposedly came with a grade guarantee, that in my opinion was not honored. You do not always get what you pay for. That is one reason why there are courts.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you have nothing constructive or usefull to say, why don't you just go back to blowing bubbles and making faces at yourself in the mirror. >>
And I am the one that is being rude ? Remember that all I suggested is that from now on keep your eyes open, check your purchases and take responsibility for your actions. You could have returned the coin to the seller but you choose not to. Now that NGC does not agree with your limited experience opinion you think you have got shafted. I wish I would have known as much as you think you know after only a couple of years in the hobby.
Like a couple of others have suggested. Rack this up to experience and move on.
And as far as the people on this site. You have Sugar Coaters, probably who you want to hear from on this coin, and you have people that will give you the stark truth, people you seem to not want to hear from.
Cheers.
Ken >>
I explained why the coin was not returned in an earlier post.
I suppose you have a reason why a 3/16 inch contact mark easily seen on jeffersons head would qualify for a MS69 designation?
What would this "Stark Truth" be? That I am incapable of knowing the difference between a contact mark and a planchet flaw? That NGC is incapable of compounding one mistake with another? That this thread is annoying you because modern nickels are not worth wasting your time on?
Just stop an think for one minute. Why would I waste my time and money to send in a coin for a downgrade unless it was obviously not up to par? What ever compensation the grading companies give it is not "Market Value". I do not stand to gain financially. I bought the coin for my registry set. It sucks to do this. I sent the coin back because I want my set to reflect the grades. Many of the MS69 coins in my collection were self made. Of the coins I submitted that I expected MS69 I received about 75% at that grade. This leads me to believe that I would err on the side of a lower grade, not a higher one.
I won't respond to this thread again until sunday, when I will have a photo and you have something more tangible than my word of what I am seeing on this coin.
PCGS did a good job honoring the grading guarantee. It is just tough replacing all the coins. Still need a 1962 Roosie PR69DCam.
Badger
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
Have a nice 62 69 DCAM PCGS Roosevelt
Also a 56 Lincoln in 68 DCAM. Good Luck as always, Your friend in Jeffs,
Ron Alex and Nan's Proof Nickels with Varieties, Proof (1938-1964)
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>You're threatening court, what could a new nickel possibly be worth? >>
5 cents.......
Ken
<< <i>
<< <i>You're threatening court, what could a new nickel possibly be worth? >>
5 cents.......
Ken >>
Is that how much they get for bubbles in the west?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>I do believe you that it probably is a sucky coin. The point I stress is probably for others' education more so than yours because you've already found out the truth - only the absolute worst examples will be taken out of the holder at the TPG's expense. So protect yourself by only buying sight seen with a return privilege and screen your coins for quality. >>
And the truth is.....NGC can't grade coins so why waste your time with them! Well put TDN!
Along the lines of not receiving a proper downgrade, here's a coin that I sent to NGC for grading. The following coin just screams for perfection in quality. This is one of those very rare ultimate coins that anyone would love to own. It has an EDS strike, two pinpoint marks in the field behind Jefferson that you can't see with the unaided eye. Along with the strike, the luster and toning give this example tremendous eye appeal. I threw one of my best coins at them to see what they'd do with it and they graded it a
MS66.
From what I've seen in their holders for 16 years, according to some presumed way they grade coins, this coin should have received a MS69 grade with a (shooting) star!
I would like to think that the labeling this con as a MS66 was a deliberate act of stupity but this one incident only sealed what I've known for years.........they simply don't know how to grade coins!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
It's less about the actual skill of the graders than a host of other factors that lead to inconsistent grading.
If your nickel were sent in 10 times I would bet you that a number of MS67 grades would be achieved, esp if sent in with other similar nickels. And potentially at least one of the grades might be a MS68.
But also note that out of 20,000 superb coins NGC grades 50 pcs at MS68 and 19,950 as MS67. That's a 1 in 400 hit rate, not very good.
It tends to suggest that you might have to submit that nickel a lot more than 10X to get the MS68 grade.
roadrunner
<< <i>I'd give NGC a + or 2 pt swing on grading. Now while they usually hit the + or - 1 pt scale most of the time, the 2 pt swing does occur.
It's less about the actual skill of the graders than a host of other factors that lead to inconsistent grading.
If your nickel were sent in 10 times I would bet you that a number of MS67 grades would be achieved, esp if sent in with other similar nickels. And potentially at least one of the grades might be a MS68.
But also note that out of 20,000 superb coins NGC grades 50 pcs at MS68 and 19,950 as MS67. That's a 1 in 400 hit rate, not very good.
It tends to suggest that you might have to submit that nickel a lot more than 10X to get the MS68 grade.
roadrunner >>
Thank you roadrunner for your insightful info but I no desire to submit a coin 10x or twice for that matter. It should have got high reviews the very first time all those graders saw this coin. They intentionally downgraded this coin because they didn't have the audacity (balls) to back it up with their grade guarantee due to the toning. This coin was most likely the talk of the grading room but then someone who cracks the whip over there said something in the effect that underminded the coin, the others only followed suit.
While were on the subject of this coin, a 1944-D, I have another EDS 44-D with 6 steps that took me 12 years to locate but the PCGS price guide states for a PCGS MS67FS grade, it's only worth $170. Yeah right! Let's try $20,000! There's no real market for Jefferson nickels due to the registries. All that's require is some font typed numbering on the label as MS67FS and that's all most of those registry players really care about.
Well I'm done ranting for now.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>I would have posted this over there, but the last time I questioned their proceedures (I asked if they used any chemicals to prepare the coins for grading, maybe a stupid question, but I had my reasons for asking) they deleted my post and suspended my account. >>
I recall that thread vividly and although you did ask if they used any chemicals on the coins submitted, you asked the question by prefacing that you had heard that from multiple sources that it was indeed a fact and that those chemicals reacted with coins to produce spots on them after being slabbed. You also went on to state that a number of your NGC-submitted copper appeared altered after it was returned in a slab. That is not exactly the same as asking a question and I do not blame NGC for putting you on a posting vacation for the statement.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>I would have posted this over there, but the last time I questioned their proceedures (I asked if they used any chemicals to prepare the coins for grading, maybe a stupid question, but I had my reasons for asking) they deleted my post and suspended my account. >>
I recall that thread vividly and although you did ask if they used any chemicals on the coins submitted, you asked the question by prefacing that you had heard that from multiple sources that it was indeed a fact and that those chemicals reacted with coins to produce spots on them after being slabbed. You also went on to state that a number of your NGC-submitted copper appeared altered after it was returned in a slab. That is not exactly the same as asking a question and I do not blame NGC for putting you on a posting vacation for the statement. >>
As the Author of the deleted post I know EXACTLY what I wrote.
I had heard a rumor that ngc and perhaps PCGS, in preparing coins for grading used a chemical to clean the coins, and that this chemical reacted badly with copper coins that had been chemically altered. I was asking if this were true since a few of the coins that came back to me in bodybags did not look the same as when I had submitted them.
It is true that NCS uses chemicals to "clean" coins and that some of the copper pennies I had submitted the NCS came back with the same discoloration.
I clearly stated in the post that this was a rumor that I had heard from several different sources.
I never stated it as a FACT.
I asked the question because several members of tradingslabs had asked me if I knew if the rumor was true or not. I thought the best way to determine if a rumor is true, or not, is to go to the source and get their response.
To be honest their response leaves me with more questions than answers. As a result, all my copper coins now go to PCGS.
=======================
You guys have wild imaginations. My statement about courts was a simple statement of fact. NOT a declaration of intent to sue. Stop trying to read between the lines, there is nothing there, except what you put there. I try to write, and speak in plain terms. If I did not put the words in there, I don't need anyone else filling in the blanks.
<< <i>Where do you think all the Gem coins that survive today came from? They came from people like me that ignored the ridicule of their peers and collected the finest examples of the coinage of the day for preservation. >>
AH HA!!! Now theres a quote I agree with 100%.
Poke all the fun you want at Modern collectors today. But your children and grand children will be buying these modern's from my children and grand children. And my babies will be laughing all the way to the bank.
<< <i>I have heard from more than one source that NGC uses a chemical to clean coins prior to grading and slabbing. I do not know if this is true, but it would explain why some of my copper coins have come back "Funny" looking. In fact none of my "old coppers" seem to come back looking the same when I get them back.
This is especially true of coins that come back as "Improperly Cleaned"
I have been told that the chemical does not react well to other cleaning agents used on copper and will produce "spots".
Any clarification on this guys? >>
You may debate what the above actually infers or states, but I still don't blame NGC for being a little annoyed at the text.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
This is especially true of coins that come back as "Improperly Cleaned"
I have been told that the chemical does not react well to other cleaning agents used on copper and will produce "spots".
Any clarification on this guys? >>
Wow! you kept a copy? That is awesome, thank you.
I verify that the above is a correct and accurate quote from my posting on the NGC boards.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I think your babies will be laughing on their way to the bank because they got nothing more than the orig purchase price on those longly held items. It would be incredible to me if more than 10% of today's moderns (or possibly 99%) are worth much more than issue price (+ inflation adjustments) 20-50 years down the road. This is no different than those who bought mint products in the 1955-1980 as well. What we all tend to forget is that the % of stuff put away 30 to 150 years ago is miniscule compared to the hoarding that takes place today.
If someone was putting away Albany commens during issue and paying $2 a coin for example (worth $300 today), they'd have done ok in the ensuing 70 years.
But where did they stand in 1956 or 1966 when your babies would be selling them? Maybe they added in some 1950-d nickel rolls and 1964 proof sets as well. The Albany has an orig issue of 17,000 pcs. Probably at least half remain. But today's mintage figures are more to the tune of 100,000's or more pieces.
Laughing all the way to the bank is something 90% of us dream about, and only 10% or less experience. All "investments" work the same way.
roadrunner
<< <i>As a result, all my copper coins now go to PCGS >>
You should send all your coins to PCGS, unless you want higher grades, then you should send them to other companies.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
I'm talking about making/buying the top pop coins for the future. Now tell me the ones who stocked up on the top quality Washingtom silvers from 1932 to 1964 didn't make a nice profit. Tell me the Roosevelts from 46 to 64 collected in their highest grades were not a good investment for collectors 50 years ago. Or continue to stick your head in the sand and let the rest of us pick off the top coins for the next generation or two.
As long as there are collectors, there will be a market for the top grades in what are now considered MODERNS.
<< <i>roadrunner what are you talking about, "saving all this mint stuff"?
I'm talking about making/buying the top pop coins for the future. Now tell me the ones who stocked up on the top quality Washingtom silvers from 1932 to 1964 didn't make a nice profit. Tell me the Roosevelts from 46 to 64 collected in their highest grades were not a good investment for collectors 50 years ago. Or continue to stick your head in the sand and let the rest of us pick off the top coins for the next generation or two.
As long as there are collectors, there will be a market for the top grades in what are now considered MODERNS. >>
Yea, what he said :0
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Ronday: I agree with you that if you have a MS69 coin it should not have a scratch as large as you are stating. You also have a legitimate complaint that the coin was sent back and remains a 69. But you are dealing with NGC. This is a company that I have seen and owned several Roosies (MY choice of coin to collect) and they do not meet my interpertations of FB. But this is my opinion only and what I see and they see will be different, but I mostly agree with PCGS and that is why I stay with them. If I were you, and this is merely My opinion, I would go with PCGS coins and dump NGC (Since you know have 2 compliants about them).
As far as FCloud and Fairlaneman, these are 2 well respected collectors on these boards and if I were you I would listen to them. They are VERY knowledable about their Hobby.
Lastly, what Tradedollarnut stated is ABSOLUTELY 100% right...if you buy a coin sight unseen you get burned sometimes. You need to buy coins where you can see them, or deal with a reputable dealer you know will not stiff you with a bunch of crap.
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Now, lets se the coin that started the whole thing.
Ken
<< <i>This thread actually turned out quite decent. Some nice opinions and counter opinions. Ron should cut and paste it to a thread over on his forum. Newer collectors could learn a few things from the thread I believe.
Now, lets se the coin that started the whole thing.
Ken >>
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Ken
I cannot find my tripod, so this is as good as I can get as far as a closeup picture. This is no diebreak. A diebreak has a raised surface and is obviously different than a mark made from contact with another coin.
Even PCI would have a hard time giving a coin a MS69 grade with a gash like this on the forhead of jefferson.
What bugs me the most is the name ... NGC.... Numistic GUARANTEE Corportation...
What is it that they guarantee? That they will put your coin in a slab?